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Practical Ramifications Of The Mess/Pouncey's Trade Value

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phoenician Fan, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I have seen this mentioned in other posts. People are always all over the map on these issues.

    I think that now, most are starting to understand the kind of real pressure that is going to be on the Dolphin Organization to bring change to the team culture.

    Pressure from the NFL office,enormous media pressure, even pressure from fans; pressure from everywhere.

    Some of us are going to need to change our mock drafts and our expectations when it comes to free agents. Character is going to be a HUGE issue with the players being released,traded,or acquired.

    So what do you think Pouncey's trade value is???????

    He is, of course, a Pro Bowl caliber talent.

    He is only 24 years old.

    He is still on his rookie contract.

    He was drafted with the #15 pick in the draft and has fulfilled expectations.

    I think he is worth original draft value. The point total given to the number 15 pick. I don't however expect that high of compensation, but I would expect something close. The OG and OC market really isn't that good, especially considering that it looks like Mack and Schwartz won't hit the market. I doubt if Evan Deitrich-Smith hits it either.
     
  2. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    He might be facing suspension though. I don't think we can get anything higher than a second for him, unfortunately.
     
  3. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    We aren't gunna trade Pouncey, nor should we.
     
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  4. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    I'd use this negative publicity to leverage locking him up to a cheaper long term deal :up:
     
  5. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    I could see the league cutting a deal with us where if we trade Pouncey away to gut the team of everyone with involvement, they'll take the next pick after whatever we get as punishment. If we want to keep him, the punishment is worse.

    We need to close this chapter, and if we got a 3rd for him and forfeited our 3rd or 4th in the process I'd be happy.

    ETA: I see a deep team with an older center being the team where he'd go, hopefully a NFC one at that. He's sitting out the first half of 2014 as a lock, I think.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's reaching the point where his issues are seriously problematic.

    I think you certainly have to review the possibility that he'll get his **** together, because right now he's got multiple outstanding issues that have the potential to come to a head and keep him off the field.
     
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  7. Mk2

    Mk2 New Member

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    Pouncey is a garbage human being and a cancer in the locker room and his value is fixing on plummeting once the league hands out their punishment.
     
  8. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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  9. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    This guy is turning into someone you really don't want around young players..........and here we are primed to draft 2 or 3 players over 7 rounds to that OL.

    I don't know that I would flip him for a pick. But an OL player swap I'd be favorable to.
     
  10. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Is there any precedence for this kind of scenario?

    I think this just waaayyy too dismal.
     
  11. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Let's see. If you're a GM for another NFL team what would you offer for a young pro-bowl caliber player on his rookie contract who is:
    1) Facing what is probably a 4-8 game suspension for the start of the year. Making him mostly useless for 2014 since you'll need another NFL starting quality center on your roster for 2014
    2) Is on the leagues black book and will be facing heavy suspensions for any further infractions while being under extreme scrutiny
    3) Is a known drug risk
    4) Is a known publicity problem due to his support for Hernandez and Incognito
    5) Thanks to 3 & 4 it is also safe to assume he is serious risk for committing a felony whilst under contact.

    I seriously doubt anyone would offer more than a 6th or 7th. Maybe a 5th of you were desperate.
    In other words he probably has roughly the same trade value as Jonathon Martin.
     
  12. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    A garbage human being, huh? lol
     
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  13. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    I believe there to be several realistic destinations for Pouncey. Here is one you may not have thought of. The Rams.

    Scott Wells is old and he sucks.He could be cut any day now. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2940/scott-wells

    Rams have some serious cap issues this year.

    The Rams could save over 2 mil in cap by releasing Wells and trading for Pouncey; all while significantly upgrading their line.
     
  14. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know if he has any trade value, to be honest.

    Bad in the locker room? check

    Proud recreational drug user? check

    Associates with alleged murderer? check

    Potentially faces charges in some of said murderer's escapades? check, though not sure how likely an indictment is

    Who exactly says "I need this guy for my team; get the Dolphins on the phone?"
     
  15. TopLoader

    TopLoader Active Member

    Pouncey is cancer. Release him and start doing the right thing.

    We have to entice others onto this ol and having Pouncey, Turner, Jerry, and any other numpty present will affect their decisions.. I don't mind losing or not gaining a pick for a horrible human who supports Cogs and the murderer Hernandez. In fact what should happen is we be fined by the league, lose all the idiots put our hands up and say sorry.

    Saying sorry to
    1) FANS
    2) Martin and welcome him back for having the absolute massive balls for not committing suicide and bringing this situation up therefore maybe even saving some young lineman's life
    3) NFL for bringing the game into disrepute

    So to recap sack the lot involved, apologise and take any punishment given and welcome back Martin (I know he's no good as a player. But near fresh start and let him fight for a roster spot)
     
    TooGoodForDez likes this.
  16. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    I want to see if anything happens from the league about the extortion "fine" book, as far as financial and other incentives in bullying. There are a lot of things in this report that the league will have to address.
     
  17. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    You want to bring Martin BACK?!? Are you serious?

    I'm not going to say Incognito was the good guy... but when someone doesn't even like themselves, or lets what people say determine how they feel about themselves... they aren't strong willed individuals. I know... I've been there personally. And that isn't the kind of player who helps you win games as build a winning culture.

    And on top of that... he just flat out isn't good.
     
  18. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    At this point you aren't going to get fair trade offers for Pouncey, so you might as well keep him and hope that after 7 years of being an adult he will finally mature. 7 years and counting.
     
  20. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    There are obviously really hard feelings between Garner and Pouncey. What do they do with that situation??

    The reality of this situation is that by the time March 11th gets here, or even early May with the draft, things will calm down, and there is a very good chance that the free agent market for centers and guards may be one of the worst ever.

    Right now it is likely that Mack,Evan Dietrich-Smith,and Geoff Schwartz will all be retained by their present teams, leaving very few free agents that are at all appealing.

    Pouncey may indeed have significant value.

    Richie's lawyers are going to do their job, and Pouncey himself will benefit.

    It is likely IMO that the Dolphins will act quickly in regard to Martin. If they can get something from the 49ers,Cardinals,Saints,etc. they will take it of course, otherwise I don't think they will wait long to release him.

    When Martin signs with another team, and there is no harm done, it will be hard to bring cases against Pouncey and Jerry. Incognito was obviously the leader and instigator.
     
  21. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I hope Garner and Pouncey can fix their issues. Garner is a quality back up, when someone goes down he goes in and does his job. I never felt comfortable of him as a full time starter but he is valuable for depth.
     
  22. PhinsFan93

    PhinsFan93 New Member

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    Didn't read the report, and I honestly don't care for it, but why is Pouncey being treated like a monster?
     
  23. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    From the report he was actively involved in harassing other players and an assistant trainer.

    From outside the report - he is an active recreational drug user; a public supporter of Hernandez; and an active supporter of Incognito.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So if someone is around drugs and has a friend in jail, he's a serious risk for committing a felony? You should let the cops know about this...it would revolutionize law enforcement worldwide!
     
    miamiron likes this.
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You forgot supports murderers.
     
  26. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    We need starter. Forget depth guys...
     
  27. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What Ross needs to do in addition to getting rid of Cogs, who is a toxic A-hole and is already gone, is fire Turner, who can't get results from the offensive line anyway; adopt a touchy-feely code of conduct that includes forbidding all the inappropriate behavior the report details; mollify the league as much as possible, and put this behind him by winning some games. Trading away the team's best offensive lineman is not an option, and Jerry should be replaced because of the low quality of his play, not his role in the scandal.
     
  28. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    I think with regards pouncey, the team need to suspend him themselves and then cart him off to some facility for a chat. At least look like we are doing the right thing. There is no trade value. He is young enough to be saved. We can talk second chances and a prove it reaction. Everyone else though, wowsers, no idea. As much as we all think Martin is done he was clearly a victim here, we can talk about strong character but it's irrelevant. He should be treated like pouncey.
     
  29. TopLoader

    TopLoader Active Member

    I agree Martin isn't good and weak willed. But any development for a second year player has been more than halted due to all these issues. A club much like any employer has the responsibility to help players out which Miami have failed to do.

    Pouncey as mentioned is cancer he has to be fired full stop.... I think Pouncey on the field is and will be for a while our best player but this situation and his clear problems are bigger than wins or losses columns.

    A drug user, supports murderers, and tried to cover all this up let's not forget this was not only aimed at Martin , so do we get rid of everyone including a poor back room staff just to keep him, no we don't. He is supposed to be a role model to all the kids in Miami and further a field. Fire him
     
  30. TopLoader

    TopLoader Active Member

    Forget to mention if you have been there yourself did you employer turn there back on you when they found out?

    Also if they did did they keep employed the guys or girls that caused this illegal upset?

    Bet they did not and neither should Miami
     
  31. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    I agree with toploader. Miami have a duty of care to Martin. I'd like to think that with some counselling and work we could make pouncey better.
     
  32. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    He is not supposed to be a role model for all the kids Miami. He's supposed to hike a ball and block.
     
  33. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Pouncey is a piece of ****. Wait until punishments are handed down, then explore a trade for whatever you can get for him and move forward.

    More than a high pick or another player, THAT'S what we need most now—to move forward and leave this bull**** behind us. We can't do that with Mr. "I support a murdering scumbag" on a unit that's about to be rebuilt with young players.
     
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  34. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I think folks are underestimating the drug thing. A) It's going on during the season B) Damn straight the NFL is going to do more then the one test the players usually receive and it will be during the season C) When Incognito is trying to get people to not go to Pouncey's..............christ what does that say about the drug use there.
     
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  35. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Problem is no team would trade higher than a 3rd round pick for the guy, everyone around the league will try to use the "troubled player" excuse on him now because of all the nonsense he gets himself into. Pouncey is worth more than any third round pick in the draft.

    If someone offered two second round picks then MAYBE, but right now I would only trade Pouncey for an established NFL offensive linemen starter. If we can't get that then I rather keep him and his troubles, get him in a room with our leaders and tell him he has to grow up.

    And he needs to grow up on the field too. There was some stupid personal foul penalties he was involved in this season.
     
  36. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    I think we will not have that luxury this season to move Pouncey, but he does need to go. Damn good player but he has a flaw, and one that most likely will resurface at some point. I say that only because he is young and it will take time.
     
  37. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    A) Not necessarily. And to what extent and which drugs, nobody knows.
    B) They already do random testing, iirc.
    C) It says Incog didn't think a suicidal teammate should be around any more drugs than he already was.
     
  38. Loyal Fin

    Loyal Fin Business as usual

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    Alot of posters' opinion on Pouncey are based on what they've read. Wonder how many other players do similar things. Pretty sure someone on defense does.
    Let's just let go of everyone you all don't like, great idea. Problem with that is you're passing judgement on character, not football talent...all of which is Philbin's job.
     
  39. TopLoader

    TopLoader Active Member

    Course he's a role model. He is a professional entertainer who has responsibility to be a role model to kids, and adults alike. He has a great position in life one that does come with responsibilities other than snapping and blocking.

    Snapping and blocking is his bread and butter.

    All athletes whatever the sport have this duty. Take for example play 60! That's fronted by athletes I don't suppose that's blocking and snapping?


    I live in the UK and subscribe to everything NFL and watch with my 14yo son who love's the game and in particular Wake. Pouncey is not what I want him to look upto it was always someone like wake. I have explained what he went through, how he fought to get where he is today and my son is educated enough to take positives from that. What could you say to a son who love's Pouncey?
     
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  40. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    You don't think we can move on as a team as long as Pouncey is here? lol
     

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