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We need Sam ..we need Sam..we need Sam !!!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Feb 14, 2014.

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  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not Vt, it's an ingredient for the recipe that can turn this toxic #### around.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Talk about a surface level of understanding, this post speaks for some of you that I'm reading.

    No, actually, it's not because he's attracted to dudes, it's because he's got more guts and toughness then the majority of the team you root for, it's because he's got more leadership intangibles then anything this team currently employs..

    I said when the offseason started that I would be looking for players who have a strong identity, and that I would prioritize it to a degree, specific players that can intrinsically motivate themselves.

    I know I have found one..give a crap less that he's gay.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he's worth the shot.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Laugh all you want..just tells me something.

    Of course you have to think he can play the game...
     
  5. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    More guts than the majority of the team we root for? 5 or 6 of the 90 or so Dolphins employees were implicated in this report.

    I'll take over reactions for 200 Alex.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Does anyone get it on this freakin forum..it's not about being gay for the last time, it's about the character revealed in the process, it's about how he became a captain in the face of his team knowing he was, it's about having the toughness to admit it to the world before the draft, it's about being someone who has tremendous guts and wants to just play the game, it's about someone who might be that special leader we need in this town, in that stadium, and on this dysfunctional wussy *** team.
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you have a name that stuck up for Martin that I'm not aware of...

    Cognito was the captain of your ship..while your other 95 percent was sussing out against the bills and jets at home..

    Nobody on the team had enough leadership and toughness to right the ship did they the last two games?, no, your at a loss for reasoning as to why our team folded up shop huh?

    I'll tell you what happened, nobody had the guts to lead, they were a bunch of posers...
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Saying "We need Sam" is like saying, "We need the circus in Miami to continue." I could care less who the guy chooses to sleep with, but it bothers me to no end that he waits until the optimal time to scream from the rafters about his sexuality...only so he can be the first that's ever done it. His move had publicity written all over it and honestly, the last thing Miami needs is another self-promoting diva that will tell everyone how special he is.

    News flash...football is about football.

    Oh, and one final comment that you didn't hear from me...the Dolphins know all about how a gay player or two in the locker room "fixes the culture." Sam is nowhere near the first gay player; he's just the first to say it in front of a camera. Just because nobody had the balls to say it to Ted Wells doesn't change a thing.
     
  9. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Deej, in this case I think you've got the wrong argument. We need strong leaders. We more importantly need strong leaders who fit the team. We don't need a de. We need a new ol. I couldn't give two flips about someones sexuality. I personally think sport is quite disgusting in its backwards thinking, however drafting a player cos he's gay to bandaid this situation is a mistake. I hope he has a long and productive career, I hope he normalises (for sport) homosexuality and active sportspeople. However if it's with us it must be because we need him. Need is our greatest driver.
     
  10. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    My nipples just got hard.
     
  11. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    So in your opinion... there are no other players in this draft that have the type of character you're looking for that can help our lockerroom?

    Sam was able to demonstrate it via being gay and coming out of the closet. How are the straight players of similar character supposed to equally demonstrate their desirable character traits to convince you that they'd be just as impactful?

    We need players of that character that can also be impactful on the field. B/c if you can't make plays on the field... you cant lead b/c players aren't going to follow you. Find talented impactful ones at positions of greater need where they can step in and make a difference both on and off the field. That's how we'll get better DJ...
     
  12. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    And here we have the leading candidate for most asinine non-football-related post of 2014.

    DJ, I hear you and get what you're saying. But explaining yourself repeatedly to people who can't understand your basic premise probably isn't worth your time. Reading comprehension and concepts like empathy and courage are not being understood in many posts here. If you have to teach these things to people step by step, it's not worth it.

    And also, I didn't realize that being an All-American SEC DPOY 4th-round prospect means you're a scrub.
     
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  13. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    This is what I was trying to get at. It's great that Sam came out, I wish more people would so that no one would ever have to make it an issue worth talking about any more, but just because Sam came out, it doesn't prove that he'll be a leader in the locker room any more than anyone else or that he has greater character or identity. Not everyone else with strong character & courage has such a "platform" to show it on.
     
  14. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I was trying to illustrate that he didn't feel comfortable being himself among people who were more his equal than those he will be around in a pro locker room (equal in talent and experience - both football and life - I mean), but we're to assume that now that everyone knows he's gay that he is going to lead people far more talented and more experienced (and on a much different pay scale - money does equal power to a degree IMO, even in football). I just find it hard to believe. You can call it asinine all you want, but assuming a 22 year old mid round pick is going to be the guy everyone looks to to turn this place around seems more asinine to me. Plus I don't agree with the premise that he has greater self identity than any other football player in the draft. I am sure he has more than some, but just because the other guys don't have something to reveal doesn't mean they lack self identity, strength, or courage.
     
  15. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    I understand perfectly well what deej is saying. I'm empathetic to his situation. Surely however we should draft on need and not on some pr exercise?
     
  16. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Clearly you don't understand what deej is saying as none of it has anything to do with PR.
     
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  17. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Ok we are talking leadership. Excellent, I want to see it. I want the team to have it. However, just say we draft him, what is his playoff position and time? Are there not more important things than drafting a possibly undersized de? I'm pretty certain we did that last year. Lets get leadership but not at the expense of filling our team with starters of need.
     
  18. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If I were Goodell, on draft day, I would tell all people who handle draft cards to return the card to the Dolphins with a message of "try again," and I would make sure the draft clock malfunctioned so they would have enough time to choose someone else. This is the last place the league needs that guy to go. This is the last place that guy personally needs to go.

    I do understand what DJ is saying, in theory, but the cancer analogy is spot on, and this team hasn't even had surgery yet, let alone follow up treatments.
     
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  19. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You are talking about an NFL team right?
     
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  20. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Dolphins need to stick to high impact possibilities on the field and change the culture to avoid circus style media issues don't intentionally bring in gunpowder we already have fire. Let him play somewhere that's not already Barnum and Bailey it's just the wrong time in Miami.
     
  21. atomdomb

    atomdomb Banned

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    Gay jokes are the norm in nearly every high level college and pro locker room across the country. welcome to the real world
     
  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    What way would that be? Is he an enigma?
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Scotty..I don't want to draft him because he's gay..if we can get him in the fourth, with those intangibles, with the leadership he has displayed, he's worth the risk.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know bro, I know what your saying, not everyone is a on the same playing field, I think what he has displayed during his college career and up until this point, separates him, why are you putting him into a category when he doesn't belong in any, he has the guts and mental toughness to withstand what he's gonna get, and what he's gonna get is something that someone has never got before..

    I think it all could really help this teams lack of leadership and toughness, obviously there was and is something wrong with this teams makeup, and for a third or fourth rounder, I'm willing to take the risk.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    because of the type of courage he has displayed, to actually go there before the draft, to become captain of his team while he had proclaimed his sexuality, to accomplish what they did as a team this year, just blows me away, that tells me that he has the personality and leadership to earn respect, under very unusual circumstances, sometimes in the draft you gotta take risks, if his talent busts then you've wasted a mid round draft pick, if he can play he might just change a lot of what is wrong here..
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Perfect time imo.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was born to be attracted to women, he was born to be attracted to men..
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How do you like the character of your team at this point.? Including what happened in the last two games.

    That's wtf I'm talkin about.

    I bet a Richie Cognito and co wouldn't say #### to a Michael Sam, in fact I bet they might just learn something about life, leadership, and maybe just grow the #### up..
     
  29. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Deej, do we really actually need him though? With Dion (who you love), wake (who you also love), and Vernon. We don't have a place for him right now. If we needed him, and he fit the system, and his stats made the scouts think he'd succeed then yes. But right now, we need linemen. And probably 5 of them. I don't think taking him is a risk, I don't think it'd be any issue at all, but do we really need him?
     
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  30. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your final sentence here, Sam could be a positive role model, and should be a positive role model. The team lacks character but ultimately this is a team sport and we need other areas strengthened first. I don't think an undersized de who we might need to turn to a lb is gonna be on our list of wants. Can Sam make that transition? Can he cover? Who really knows.
     
  31. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    What category am I putting him in? I want to spend a 3rd/4th round pick on a guy of that character... but who plays a position we can actually use. He can't lead from the bench...

    He isn't the only player in this draft with the character you're looking for. I get proclaiming that we need guys of high character, courage, and leadership... but we don't specifically need Sam as that guy. We're better off finding a LT and RG for instance that has that character...

    We don't need Sam...
     
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  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Have you been in nearly every high level college and pro locker room across the country?
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That's the thing with me. As it stands right now, we do not need another DE taken high. Sam could be a potential 3-4 OLB too though, but we don't play that scheme. DE when you include the 3 aforementioned, and also Shelby, is one of our deepest positions for talented players under contract. We only get 7 draft picks. We have to address positional needs first. Now, if for example, Jordan got traded for Lane Johnson, then yeah, I could see taking Sam in the 3-4 area.
     
  34. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]
     
  35. Phin5.0

    Phin5.0 New Member

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    Count me in as another that is confused as to why this would even be a conversation.

    First, this is a player whose upside is as a special teams standout and a situational pass rusher. We don't have a need for either.

    Second, even we did, this coaching staff has proven it hates to play rookies and that they do nothing to teach players how to play during the season. You get the off season and that's it, and the staff makes their minds up about your abilities during that time. Vernon is a prime example. Young, showed lots of flashes, but wasn't able to make "the leap" until he had another entire offseason to learn and prove himself. Jordan is another example.

    It's actually quite pathetic that we as a team have so many pass rushers and still can't field a defense that actually scares opponents. Between Shelby and Vernon and Wake and Jordan and even Odrick, teams should absolutely hate spreading the field and letting us pin our ears back and go after them.

    Then again, I have just as much faith in Coyle as I do in Philbin, so whatever.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is a whole other level of leadership and toughness, and to me this team, this culture needs that other level, why?,because playing here in this town, in that venue, is gonna take a different animal to change what has been consistently evident for a long period of time..if he can beat out Shelby, play special teams, and bring that emotional intensity, courage, passion and thick skin, then I would take the risk and bet on him with a fourth and start to change the dynamics of this culture..
     
  37. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    So was the N word and then people grew up and became less shallow minded. Welcome to the real world.
     
  38. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    He is on a whole nother level than every other player in this draft regarding courage/leadership? DJ, I love you... but that's such a dumb statement...

    I'm not knocking Sam's ability in those areas... but you're basically saying that b/c the other 200+ players in the draft are straight... they can't possibly have the courage/leadership skills that Sam has. They can't possibly offer what Sam can to the lockerroom in regards to courage/leadership. And that's just dumb. The only difference between Sam, and the others of equal character... is that he has a platform.

    He may be better than a good chunk in this draft in that regard... but saying he's on another level than everyone else in this draft is an ignorant comment...
     
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  39. MIASportsFan

    MIASportsFan New Member

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    You would use a fourth round pick on a guy who by your own admission would be 4th on the depth chart at his position AT BEST? Thank god your not GM.

    That's the kind of player you take in the last round or UDFA. If you just want someone to be a good locker room presence so badly, then just sign Tebow to a minimum contract and we don't use a pick. A fourth rounder? Insanity
     
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  40. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    You really need to do some objective research. This is mythology. The genetic evidence simply isn't there. There is some evidence of tendency but environment is a huge part as well.

    And, second, this is a significant, emotional reaction. The franchise doesn't "need" Michael Sam. They need to to stop with the rookie hazing and get rid of a couple of bad "eggs" and then start winning. Sam is a decent mid-to-upper-round talent who will play OLB and that's not a need position.

    Eventually, this will blow over with the OL coach fired; and with Incognito gone. And some new talent. If they lose or are mediocre next year, then Ross will clean house. And, if they still don't draw fans and no one has jumped on the LA train, I think Ross will consider that option. Or he'll sell the team as one of the most failed NFL owners in history.
     
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