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We need Sam ..we need Sam..we need Sam !!!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Feb 14, 2014.

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  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Mocking any group of people, regardless of how different they are, is poor taste and unnecessary. But, there are significant differences in those two cases.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why is it ignorant to believe that mike Sam has elite leadership skills..a presence that elevates other players game., more so than the majority coming out of the draft?

    From what he Has demonstrated, from his team standpoint, his individual fortiitude during the process, watching him in interviews thru ought the year motivating his team, on the field intensity,I think it's ignorant to think this dudes leadership capabilities aren't elite, and that's what I mean by being on another level, and it's clear we need some players with very strong leadership.

    Bottom line when writing about his evaluation, your putting elite leadership skills on the page.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At some point in this draft he might be the BPA, I don't believe that will be as late as you indicate..his leadership capabilities and the situation of our team nudges him in front if it's a close call.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have much respect for you, and your intellect, and without coming across as disrespectful, if you don't think it happens at birth, I think you need to open your eyes..I have personally seen evidence on hundreds of occasions where I can identify a child that will grow up to be gay..
     
  5. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    You didn't read my post if that is your response. I said it's ignorant to believe that his leadership skills are on another level when compared to everyone else in his draft class. He isn't the only one among the 200+ kids in this draft class with elite leadership skills. To believe that would indeed be ignorant.

    And that's point... we don't NEED Sam. We need people of that type of character... but it doesn't have to specifically be him. In fact, it would be preferable if it wasn't him... and instead one who could play a more prominent role on the field.
     
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  6. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    agreed & well spoken!
     
  7. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    And in each of these hundreds of occasions where you knew they would be gay as a child... we're each of these cases confirmed later in life that they indeed turned out to be gay? So, you know hundreds of gay people? All of which you've known from when they were a child to now?
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There isn't just a group of people that you can put into one category and say, it doesn't matter which one, because in that particular group they all have what we need, I'm looking for something unique, and these are human beings and they all do things differently, some better than others...I think Sam and I'm sure there are some others, have separated themselves from the pack.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No..I'm not getting into this conversation..if you or others don't think it comes from inception, then I completely disagree, maybe you all need to listen to people's cases more intently.

    I'll preface by saying I hope this is not offensive to anyone..Do you know the term butch?, have you seen a butch
     
  10. MIASportsFan

    MIASportsFan New Member

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    If anything I would say it's the complete opposite
     
  11. MIASportsFan

    MIASportsFan New Member

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    Well said
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Environment plays a very small part, if any at all. There is no mythology to it.
     
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  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I definitely agree it's a 'born that way' thing. However for every gay person you think you can just tell they are when you see them, there are 100s more that are gay and you see them and have no clue.
    I think everyone knows the term 'butch' and have seen women who appear 'butch'. However simply appearing to be butch does not automatically mean they are a lesbian. Just like all women who appear to be ultra femme are not always totally straight.
     
  14. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    True.

    Being gay is not a choice, but I don't understand the fuss about whether it is or isn't. Being Christian is a choice, and we aren't allowed to persecute them. Are some choices inalienable rights because they're the "right" choices?
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Given DJ's incessant persistence over Michael Sam, I think he's avoiding the one thing that's truly on his mind...we need Sam because he's become a figurehead in the gay community. I'm sorry, but appealing to a certain part of the fan-base should never be included in draft decisions.

    As far as the "born this way" argument goes, men are born into all kinds of sinful desires. That doesn't mean that Christians should just ignore the Bible and endorse homosexuality, however, because we are clearly warned about embracing sin. I personally would love to cheat on my wife with a sexy 21 year old, for example, and there's a part deep inside of every guy that hungers for that. That doesn't mean we get to come out and say, "Sorry honey, that's just how we're born. That's how God made me." If you're a Christian, you try not to give into sin because you're living for a much bigger prize in the end. That's why I've never cheated...and it has nothing to do with me not wanting to.

    We're all sinners though, so don't think that I'm judging anyone here. I'm just pointing out that a lot of people here do not embrace Sam's lifestyle like you do. It doesn't mean we dislike the guy, and it doesn't mean we wouldn't welcome him in Miami, but we're not about to throw a parade and say to bring in the guy who self-promotes sin on national TV. Sorry, but I can't even begin to see a leader or a role model there.
     
  16. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Keith, without reducing it to god vs no god, surely the only thinking should be do only good. Thus your final 2 sentences are possibly quite ridiculous. Self promotes sin? Wow. That's a pretty bold statement. In what way does his orientation affect your life? That thinking is reductive and backwards.
     
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  17. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    I know several individuals who were practicing homosexuals who haved since left that lifestyle and live now heterosexual lifestyles with no regrets or temptation towards homosexuality (female and male). (Just for those wondering of the choice to pursue that lifestyle or not)
     
  18. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sexuality is not black and white. Like a lot of things, it is fluid. That's why there is a Kinsey Scale that includes more than the binary choices, "0 or 1." You and I likely disagree with research into the genetics of homosexuality for very different reasons. I believe that people born on the gayer and straighter ends of that spectrum (for lack of better terms) just stay the way they are. I also believe that some people are born "in the middle" and likely do make a choice when their time comes to settle down. Why should their choices be any business of mine?
     
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well then, were on different ends of the planet, no wonder.

    For this team, this culture, what he has demonstrated on and off the field, it nudges for the positive, imo
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I realize that, I said that because it obviously gives you a clear example of what can happen at inception, and the same can be said for boys, extreme female hormones and physical similarities..

    Just because folks that don't look like that doesn't mean something still didn't happen at inception, it's just to a smaller degree on the hormone level..
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If you read the Bible, it never once says to try to do good whenever it suits you...it says to strive to live a perfect Godly life. Now, we all fail at that task every single day, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to give into the sins of the world. I would say the same thing to Michael Sam that I'd say to a guy that's hooked on internet pornography or someone who cheats on their spouse...that's not what God wants for them.

    Here's the difference between Michael Sam and the other two examples though; the guy hooked on porn isn't going on national television and telling everyone that they should be proud to lust over naked women. The guy who cheats on his wife knows that he screwed up bad, and he's not going to tell everyone he knows how great adultery is. As a Christian, it is offensive to see anyone testify that it's okay to ignore the Bible's teachings...and that's exactly what Michael's statement did. Sinning is one thing, but promoting it (and feeling pride from it) is a completely different matter.

    So how does it affect my life personally? As a Christian, the Bible tells me to strive to live my life like Jesus Christ. Jesus witnessed to people, avoided sin at all costs, and helped those who were living worldly lives. To you, Michael Sam may be an inspiration, but to Christians he's a lost soul that's on a path to eternal damnation. Again, that's not my definition of a role model.
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We might have to turn this thread into another forum, Keith, your saying that Michael Sam is a sinner and is on a path to eternal damnation for being how god wanted him to be?, you truly intellectually believe it's a choice?I say that because I'm sure you feel that inception is a miracle and god has a plan for every person, well, I don't believe the kid born with a grossly deformed face and body thinks he's a miracle, or the kid born strapped to a wheelchair and a drool rag does either..
     
  23. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we're going to continue down this gay path, please leave the bible out of it.
    My two cents.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think you're missing the picture here- God does not want Michael Sam to be gay. There's no "grey area" in the Bible about this and it's made very clear that God did not make men into homosexuals. In fact, there are dozens of Bible verses throughout the Old and New Testament that condones this lifestyle.

    Leviticus 18:22- "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10- "Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God."

    Leviticus 20:13- "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

    While you're right that God has a plan for every person, it was NEVER to lay with another man. That doesn't mean God dislikes homosexuals, because he loves all his creatures despite our imperfections. It is made crystal clear, however, that homosexuals living in constant sin will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven.

    So there's nothing to debate here...if you believe in God and believe in the Bible, then your "born this way" argument is ridiculous. It is a lifestyle choice and unfortunately, some people embrace it as children and go their whole lives without ever second-guessing it. Then they come across a "pastor" that ignores the word of God to fit his own desires, and suddenly here we are with people saying, "God wants me to be gay." I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but that is an outright lie.
     
  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's probably a smart move because as long as someone is preaching that, "God made me this way," I'll be quoting scripture.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If god as you say has everything to do with what happens at inception, then god would not want anyone killed or shunned to hell for being gay..

    It's not a choice, and something drastic need to be done in this world to show that, it's pure racism, ignorance and corruption.

    I had a 11 year old girl who goes to catholic school tell me that her teachers told her that being gay is a sin..what a disgrace..

    Do some research and try to tell me it doesn't happen at inception..

    This is wrong man, really wrong.
     
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  27. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed togetherLeviticus 19.19

    Leviticus states loads of ludicrous nonsense. You can't quote Leviticus, it's gibberish. My cotton poly blend t shirt shall see me put to death? Sheesh. We're now in the wrong forum. I've decided just to be good to people, i didn't require a book to tell me. With your post alone Keith I have now been turned around. Deej was right, we draft Sam regardless of need because it would cause you mild consternation.
     
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  28. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Keith, also, if god was there and he didn't like gays he could surely just kill them. Like with lightning or bees or something. As opposed to getting someone on earth to do it. He's either omnipotent or impotent. You can take your pick. He's pretty good at killing people. You know all those school shootings, what kind of angry vengeful god allows that to happen? You know when you read of a young family killed in a house fire, what kind of vindictive malicious god does that? You've picked a curious idol. Just hope you dont upset him. Sheesh, he's angry lately.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah lets not get into that whole it's a choice thing..

    Back to football, mike Sam is a bad ***, wheres the #52 which I don't think is a coincidence, and has fourth round talent, if he's on the board, and he's BPA or even with someone else, his courage and toughness to lead thru people who still believe he's going to hell because of his sexual preference makes him more of a bad ***..he takes priority.
     
  30. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Deej. We draft on need. Let's find linemen with leadership. Sam doesn't fit what we need player-wise. His personality and character would be great but he'd be a wasted roster spot.
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Listen to what you're saying here- Homosexuals deserve to be treated with respect, but they don't have to respect anyone else's views. So you're saying the heck with the Bible, the heck with the Constitution, and the heck with anyone who doesn't want to believe exactly what I believe. I'm sorry bro, but you're the one who has this twisted. In America, I have a freedom of religion and my Bible tells me that homosexuality is a perversion. If you can't respect what Christians call the holiest of books ever written, then how can anything EVER change for your cause?

    The same goes for the Catholic teacher...how dare you tell a religious person that they're not entitled to their faith?!? If you don't like it, then tell that 11 year old girl not to talk to religious people...it's that simple. Don't condemn my beliefs and then ask me to be more understanding of you though...can you see how ***-backwards that is? Why on earth would you NOT EXPECT a Catholic teacher to mention the Bible's teachings? That's their job.

    As I said earlier, I don't see homosexuals and differently than anyone else in this world, but my religion says that you're living an immoral life. That doesn't mean I have anything against you AT ALL but if you ever come over to my house for a couple of beers and a Fins game, I'd probably mention that God does not want you living that way. I'm not here to judge you though, so please don't think I'm calling you a bad person. We all sin and we're all equal...saved or not.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see what folks are saying with Wake, Jordan, and Vern on the team, I've just got a gut feeling that this guys makeup is exactly what we need to start to jump start this toxic culture..

    BPA philosophy, if that happens in the fourth whatta you wanna do Scotty?, take a lesser talented lineman who doesn't bring what Sam brings to the table, or we just make it happen and adjust...I will adjust my roster if it comes down to that, I will make different provisions, I will explore options, I will sacrifice.
     
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I'm not going to get into that argument, but I bet if you think really hard...you can come up with a disease that has largely affected the homosexual population.

    If you need help though, he's a link.
     
  34. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying being gay is a lifestyle choice? I'm a teacher and I know gay students. They don't choose to be gay for a giggle. I've seen the abuse, both physical and verbal. You think it's fine to tell an 11 year old that hell awaits? Statements like that justify and condone the abuse.
     
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  35. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate Worst post ever. No hetero people ever get aids? I assume then that massively Christian Africa must be pretty clear of aids? No wait, hold on.
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm sorry, I don't want to offensd you..

    I'm not sure you even comprehend the hurt and pain your words can have on people.

    I guess folks who think homosexuals should be killed or sent to hell get their wish every day..

    Suicide amongst teenagers who feel their bullied because they feel trapped in their feelings, feelings that you and others create by your beliefs and how you make them feel shame, unworthiness and disgust within themselves..so much that they take their lives because of it..

    This is truly upsetting.
     
  37. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    I would appreciate it if you would stop your mis-characterizing and deliberate attack on Christians and their opinions of sin and peoples (all peoples) need of a savior.
     
  38. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    If you could avoid including me in your list of all people that'd be great. I don't need a saviour. I was born. I am living. I will die. That is all. Its great.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and I and many others would appreciate it if people who proclaim that being gay is a sin and deserving of eternal damnation would try to change their ways, it's making young People kill themselves, that's a reality that comes from what is written and spread throughout this world, if that's not you, then what I say doesn't apply to you, if it is, then so be it..

    Please, even if you disagree, don't teach others what you believe, the young people killing themselves are the ones being affected and misinterpreting what your believing in..they can't help because they know it's been inside them ever since they can remember.
     
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