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Shannon Sharpe: The Dolphins were cowards, Philbin should be suspended

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'm pretty sure that that is a crock of ****. Garner himself has stated that he has had to endure this behavior for 6 years. that predates Philbin by 4 years. Please...
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, its not great. Its all a part of this system that you seem to take exception with.

    Without monitoring his texts, emails, phone calls and all of his conversations there's no way to do that other than to kick him off the team.

    Prove that was because of Philbin and not because of martin's own issues......annnnnd go.
     
  3. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Really? I know a lot of people who love being hazed because they feel its a right of initiation and not malicious.
     
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  4. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think there a good points in here, and when you get busted doing it because you dint show the proper compassion then penalize the players involved..make it personal.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't consider what was happening to Martin the kind of hazing the players enjoy and except..

    Hair cuts etc is the stuff that makes you feel included.
     
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  7. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    This is the point I've been trying to make. Garner went through it longer than Martin. It's just that Martin was the first one to go public.

    People are being hypocrites. Everyone KNEW hazing happened. Everyone laughed at Tebow's haircut. If he had freaked out then the story would have blown up. People are looking down on this in hindsight and former players are using this as an opportunity to distance themselves because the reality is that they're all guilty but the privacy of the locker room cuts two ways.

    The same privacy that allows players to be racist, homophobic, and sexist is now allowing some participants and witnesses to these things to come out as saints. The strength that Tom Jackson and others used when condemning just the voice-mail shows me that it is calculated outrage.

    Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
     
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  8. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    the only thing I can say here is that even if the behavior was wrong, and I believe that it was, that those involved BELIEVED they were including those in question and it certainly wasn't isolated to Martin
     
  9. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Speak for yourself. It only takes one person to not be able to take something. How about dunking rookies in ice baths. You can't apply YOUR personal view to everyone.

    This genesis of this publicity is one person cracking after something that, by the official story, someone got worse for a longer period of time. You're arguing against yourself. Basically you're saying other forms of hazing are cool because people can take it but what happens when someone can't take it? It's either acceptable or unacceptable, or more accurately, it's a more nuanced topic that your evangelizing isn't appropriate for.

    Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'm not making a statement either way. I do feel like there are lines that don't need to be crossed, but if they are crossed and noone says anything....I can'tblame anyone
     
  11. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    The actual part I find hard to believe is that Martin did Molly and didn't say anything.

    I don't know how familiar anyone is with the effects of Molly, but it basically erases the filter between your emotions and mouth. Whatever you feel towards others always comes out. So either there were no drugs or Martin didn't always feel so negatively about it.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Sure there is, its called reasoning. Make the case to Incognito that him building Martin's self-esteem will be better for Richie than getting under Martin's skin. Incognito's actions were born from ignorance. He didn't intend to inflict emotional harm on Martin. He wanted to help him.

    He quit on his team and went to the media before he went to his head coach. I'm not sure how much greater of an indictment you can find.
     
  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    There is a difference between hazing and initiation. I've never met anyone who loved being embarrassed or humiliated. Seriously, do you know anyone who loves hearing about having a train run on their sister?
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Ah yes, the sexually molesting meathead with a heart.

    There you go again. That is not proof that the reason he didn't go to Philbin was because of Philbin, not his own issues.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes. I know plenty of people that perfectly 100% enjoy getting into your momma jokes with someone. Have you never heard of "playing the dozens" or rap battles?
     
  16. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    I think Ireland should have been ripped in the media more then he was and Philbin has been a sllep at the wheel if he captained a ship like he has ran this team then there would be more Titanics sinking in the Atlantic.

    this team has taken too many hits and Mr Ross owes it to us to cut and fire more people.
     
  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You don't appeal to Incognito's heart. You appeal to what motivates him. What motivates Richie Incognito? Money. Will Incognito make more money if Jon Martin plays well? Yes. Whats the best way to treat Martin if you him to play as well as he physically can? Build his self esteem.

    Thus, you tell Richie Incognito that building Martin's self-esteem means Richie Incognito will get a bigger contract this offseason.
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Your momma jokes are not rights to passage or forms of initiation. There is nothing gratifying about having someone say they will run a train on your sister. Either way, there is a big difference between what was said to Martin and a 'your momma' joke.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Philbin had no control over the money or if Cogs gets more.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No there isn't. Martin even understood this enough to participate back.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Thats not true, but that isn't the point. Philbin isn't offering him the money. Philbin is telling him that if he wants to earn more money himself, its in his best interest to treat Martin in a different manner.
     
  22. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't even think you have to go that far honestly. as brutal and barbaric as his behavior is/was I truly think that he cared about JM and believed they were friends. I believe that if you appealed to him on that basic level he would have taken it to heart. "dude, you are hurting JMart..." would have been enough.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And Cogs knows that he isn't guaranteed that money because Philbin doesn't control the money.
     
  24. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Sharpe makes a comment like this, and it's opinion, not necessarily fact, but that's what they asked him for, his opinion, and then CBS fires him....I doubt they were related, but the timing is quirky...
     
  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Incognito knows that the better he looks on the field, the more money he will get as a free agent. I'm not sure how this is debatable.
     
  26. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think you are compartmentalizing the behavior. I think this is how they all interacted with one another. I don't think it was hazing or initiating. you don't haze or initiate someone for 6 years ala Garner.
     
  27. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really, really doubt the two are connected
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Who knows. I think deep down Incognito resented Martin because of his upbringing and intellectual capacity. I think Incognito treated Martin the way he did because at times that resentment surfaced. Appealing to someone's future earnings is almost always a good way to motivate them though. Either way I don't think the situation was unsalvageable as is described. There is a lot Philbin could have done to align everyone's interests. Those type of thing take finesse, but that is what makes good management.
     
  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You haze those you perceive as weak. Even in fraternity life, there were pledges that got it much worse than others.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And yet he drank and partied all the time. You know people aren't robots right?
     
  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    So what? That doesn't change what I said:

     
  32. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    again it's just my opinion but based on what has transpired and the reactions around I really think Cogs believed they were friends and if anyone had said back off that he would. I don't think there was nay animosity I think Cogs treated everyone in his circle the same. to him it was all about being Buds. to me the texts show that. he was supportive right until the report came out. his reactions were the consistent. and if you are outside looking in and everyone seems to be getting along why would you intervene? why single someone out and possibly make it worse?
     
  33. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    If someone jokingly said that I wouldn't care, life isn't serious. The worst thing that can happen is death. Once you conwuer thst fear, nothing anyone says can offend you.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It does change it. He's clearly not motivated by that or he'd take better care of himself.
     
  35. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    FWIW, a nuanced topic would actually call for more than the either/or answer you seem to be suggesting. Binaries are for situations without nuance.
     
  36. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I think you should reread that.

    Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
     
  37. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Since you told me to reread it, I am going to put the whole thing up again. I wasn't saying anything about your opinion one way or the other, but I feel the language you used obscured your point. Your sentence reads: "It's either acceptable or unacceptable, or more accurately, it's a more nuanced topic..." I read that as something like this: "It's either black or white, or more accurately, it's in color and you're not getting it."

    I agree with you that one single perspective can't be applied to this or anything, really; I just didn't understand what you were trying to say.

    I brought up earlier in this thread that there is a difference between hazing and what was going on in Miami. That is a complex subject that calls for more depth than we can cover here, but in a nutshell, hazing happens for limited periods of time and hazing serves a purpose. From my experience, most intelligent people can tell the difference between being hazed and being harassed every day, and that comes from a strong sense of organization that sets limits and allows people to see the purpose behind the rituals. Also, the people doing the hazing tend to break into groups of "good cops" and "bad cops," to use an analogy that most can follow.

    Returning to a crazy haircut example, Tebow got the haircut during training camp. Tebow did not get a haircut in his second training camp or second season. Whether or not you think the haircut is pointless, it's not the same thing as what happened to Garner or Martin, et. al. Why did Tebow tolerate the haircut? Maybe he knew he was paying his dues and that it would end soon. IMO, teams should deal with hazing by setting up guidelines and reminding the veterans that it should serve the purpose of bringing the young guys together. A coach should be able to tell the vets "here's what you can do to the rookies; here's what you can not do to the rookies; come to me or someone else if you have questions; this is our 'safe word;' when we break camp is when it all ends..."

    Maybe I live in a dream world, but I have been on sports teams and I have been in a fraternity. IMO, most people can get through a little hazing because there is a point where you get to the other side and become one of the group. Martin was never going to become "one of the group" in Miami, because there was no other side, no matter how much he went along with it.

    Personally, I think Philbin should have been able to see this, because, if nothing else, Martin was expected to play one of the most important positions on the team and he hated coming to work every day. Whether or not I think Martin was good enough is beside the point; he was definitely not as good as he could have been because only a masochist could hate going to his job every day while simultaneously getting better at it.
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hmm, do I believe his intent was malicious?? I do not..so maybe this punishment will wake him up to start taking life more seriously..I can forgive somebody if their just plain dumb.
     
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