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Targets for 2014 Dolphins Draft

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Bpk, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes and no. I think he was able to tune it out because the atmosphere around Texas A&M is still very insulary. That's what allowed him to give little "eff you" signs to the national media and still operate in a comfort zone. That doesn't really happen in the NFL. You'll get the locals on you as well as the national media on you, and the players and coaches around you all have professional airs to where to a certain degree they expect you to just handle things on your own.
     
  2. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    You guys have probably already discussed it (if so point me in that direction). Best ILB in the 2nd/3rd rounds? (non Miami specific)
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Chris Borland has a lot of backing from people I respect. I guess I'm still trying to see what they see on him. I see a guy that is obviously very aggressive blitzing the backfield but often overly aggressive and not necessarily a safe player or a great cover man or even a great run stopper.

    I think there are some really quality shots you can take later in the draft at this position. The two that I would isolate are Eddie Lackey of Baylor and Jack Tyler of Virginia Tech.

    I've talked so much about Eddie Lackey that honestly you can just do a search function on the thread and be satisfied.

    But Jack Tyler of Virginia Tech is a guy that should be getting a lot more attention than he's getting. He easily led the VT defense in tackles with 7.7 per game versus the next best guy only having 5.7 per game (fellow linebacker Tariq Edwards).

    He had 11.0 TFLs which was second only to standout DL Luther Maddy's 13.5 TFLs. IMO, defensive linemen have the natural advantage accumulating TFLs. Of the 8 players that had 3 or more TFLs on the defense, 6 of them were defensive linemen.

    Tyler also had 4.5 sacks as a middle linebacker. The leading sackers on the team Luther Maddy and James Gayle only had 6.5 and 6.0 sacks, respectively. Tyler got after the quarterback as much as other defensive linemen like J.R. Collins, Derrick Hopkins and Dadi Nicolas. He also had 9 quarterback hurries, third only to Gayle (21) and Collins (18)...and more than Maddy (8) and Nicolas (8).

    He didn't come out of nowhere. He had 9.2 tackles per game in 2012, 13.0 TFLs, 2.5 sacks and 6 hurries.

    What I absolutely love about Jack Tyler on tape is the speed of his key reads. The guy reads the play from eye level as fast as a viewer can read the play from the camera's bird's eye view. He's instantaneous in his reaction to the play, the way he reads the blocking pattern and ball movement, etc. A lot of that HAS to be pure anticipation as a result of the film study.

    That was a damn good Virginia Tech defense...11th in all of FBS in scoring defense. They were 4th in college football in yards per play allowed. James Gayle and Kyle Fuller had something to do with that, no doubt...as the team was 13th in pass defense (yards per attempt). But they were 7th in the league in run defense (YPC)...and that was Jack Tyler.

    Here's a TFL he had against Bama which shows the anticipation of the play based on situation and formation. Don't kid yourself into thinking he just coincidentally happened to be in a blitz call. He knew exactly what was coming and exactly what he had to do to disrupt the integrity of the hand-off.

    [video=youtube;7NymbEoJFVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NymbEoJFVQ[/video]

    You may have a tough time finding video specifically ON Jack Tyler. But it's you can find some indirect videos of him:

    Anthony Steen vs. Virginia Tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TikMvQgl5k&feature=player_embedded

    Seantrel Henderson vs. Virginia Tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0xy3ZpozCzY

    Morgan Moses vs. Virginia Tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5uXT7Hb1E&feature=player_embedded

    Xavier Su'a-Filo vs. Virginia Tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46QxODS-7sk&feature=player_embedded

    Andre Williams vs. Virginia Tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBLPvUDJkKs&feature=player_embedded

    James Gayle vs. North Carolina:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HPlDN8bDAE&feature=player_embedded

    James Gayle vs. Georgia Tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkCXAukBeL8&feature=player_embedded

    Now I haven't watched all of those videos but I can recognize based on what I have seen that he's the type of guy that if I just watch more video I'm just going to like him more.
     
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  4. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    some tight end info from combine weigh ins: CJ Fedorowicz measured in at 6'5" 265 10.25" hands , Amaro 6' 5 3/8" 265 9" hands, Ebron 6'4 7/8" 250 with 10" hands, and Niklas at 6'6.5" 270 with 10" hands
     
  5. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Niklas at 270.. Jesus. Not saying that's a bad thing. If Jared Odrick was a tight end.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm thoroughly impressed by the tight end measurements of the guys at the top of my board...Niklas, Amaro and Ebron all won big in the measurements.

    I'm stunned that Amaro is 265 and yet moves the way he does. Niklas you knew could be 270 with such a large frame that he carries it like a greek statue. But Amaro could have come in a lot lighter than he did so I have to give him plenty of props.
     
  7. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Zach Martin came in at 6'4" 308 with 32 7/8" arms but at the Senior Bowl they measured 34 3/8". Must be cold in Indy.
     
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  8. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pretty dramatic difference.


    Man, these guys are exciting.
     
  9. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Luke Lucas wins the guns competition coming in at 36 3/8". Other notables are Morgan Moses at 6'6 314 with 35 3/8" arms, Juwann James at 6'6" 311 with 35" arms, Antonio Richardson at 6'6 336 with 35" arms, and Greg Robinson at 6'5" 332 with 35" arms. Jake Matthews came in at 6'5" 308 with 33 3/8" arms.

    Apparently Bill Turner's arms grew 3/4 of a inch from 33 1/4" at the Senior bowl to 34" at the combine.

    The T-rex award goes to Anthony Steen with 30 1/2" arms
     
  10. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Reminds me of Kevin Boss.
     
  11. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Wow these are some BIG dudes. Imagine 270lbs of Niklas blocking for us in the run game. Wonder if Seattle would scoop him up at 32.
     
  12. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
    A big Jim Kleinsasser type I would love to have on this team.
     
  13. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Amaro, Niklas, and Fiederowicz. Not that you asked me. But that's my opinion.
     
  14. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    "Shrinkage?"
     
  15. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    Under Jeff Ireland there was no way he'd draft a TE high. He never spent more than a 3rd rounder for a WR or TE. Hopefully Hickey won't be afraid to draft talented skill position players.
     
  16. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's stunning.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's not so much about Charles Clay as it is Ryan Tannehill. There are statistical suggestions that Tannehill is a lot more efficient when he's facing a base defense as opposed to a nickel defense. His passer ratings in 2-WR, or 2-TE, or 3-TE or 1-WR are a lot higher than his passer ratings in 3-WR and such.

    Additionally, Ryan Tannehill has high efficiency off play-action. These probably coincide a little bit as a lot of our play-action comes from running formations and our running formations tend to be against base defenses. But they don't necessarily coincide fully.

    Basically it's been a running theory that if you can complement Ryan Tannehill with a very strong ground game then he will be FAR more effective. I buy into that.

    To that end you grab a COMPLETE guy like Troy Niklas and I think you are not only giving him a tremendous passing weapon stalking the back of the end zone (see: THIS PLAY) but you also do your part in helping out the ground game which will really give you a nice return in improving Tannehill's efficiency.

    HOWEVER, that said...I don't know if Joe Philbin is all about that. In his system he wanted to have Dustin Keller and Charles Clay pair together and play nearly interchangeable roles. His preference for bigger slot receivers is an extension of the same philosophy. He will likely prefer Eric Ebron to the other two players but he also may prefer Jace Amaro. It's hard to say on that one, Amaro versus Niklas.

    The bottom line to me is you can't really go wrong, however I do think Niklas could help Tannehill more.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He will. I've been pretty sure of it for a little bit. Jim1 won me over. I thought highly of Moses before but thought he probably tops out at 2nd round. Now I think he goes higher and I do see Bryant McKinnie in him. In fact believe it or not I currently have him rated above Greg Robinson.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He'd make an exception for this lot. He's just been waiting for the kind of prototypes that speak to him. With the measurements that Ebron, Amaro and Niklas all just put out there...I'm pretty sure this is the year he'd come closest to pulling the trigger in the 1st or 2nd round.
     
  20. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How does Sims compare to this batch of TE's? He's a big boy.
     
  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Technically the bold is inaccurate since multiple 2nds were spent on Brandon Marshall.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think Dion Sims is basically a watered down version of Austin Seferian-Jenkins, and perhaps a watered down version of C.J. Fiedorowicz. All of the above are players that aren't fast and look stiff to me, don't do much after the catch, but made their way in college by being bigger than everyone and having really good hands. ASJ has great hands.

    I was not a big fan of Sims coming out.

    Believe it or not I still would like to see people (including Ryan Tannehill) pull their heads out of their asses long enough to actually throw some footballs at Michael Egnew to see what he has. Again I go back to it. Watch him play against Lavonte David in college and tell me that Egnew has no skills in the passing game. The problem is there's no confidence in him. The coaches don't call his number much, and Tannehill avoids him. I've seen Tannehill just not throw to the guy even though he makes the most sense given the coverage. You can only blame that on Egnew himself so much when you consider the fact he hasn't dropped a single ball in the regular season and he averaged 4.1 yards after the catch on his 7 receptions. At some point it's not Egnew that has to pull his head out of his arse.

    Show a little faith and you might be rewarded. Sort of like how entering the year Charles Clay had been a disappointment who caught only 18 balls for 212 yards and 2 TDs in 2012, with 6 more drops. Suddenly, he's a top 10 fantasy tight end. What happened? Dustin Keller wrecked his knee and FORCED them to show Clay a little love. It wasn't always pretty. He had to work out some kinks. He had some bad games and brain fart moments. But 759 yards and 6 TDs later I think we're happy (in a morbid way) that Keller went down and forced them to take their heads out of their arses about Clay.

    Click on the links if you want to see Michael Egnew do some damage on Pro Bowler Lavonte David:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vvlMmPxmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=162
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vvlMmPxmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=181
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vvlMmPxmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=190
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vvlMmPxmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=206
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vvlMmPxmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=257
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vvlMmPxmU&feature=player_detailpage#t=269

    Pretty much all of the above plays Lavonte David was Lavonte David, was in perfect position. Egnew was just better.
     
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  23. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    well as far as we know Bill Lazor hasn't told Egnew he was going to cut him. Another reason it was good to get rid of Sherman.
     
  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Man, the more I watch Brandin Cooks, the more I want him in a Phins' uniform. He's good inside, outside, and for a smaller guy, is good in the redzone. I think he's a much better option than Rishard Matthews or Armon Binns in the slot, Philbin's penchant for bigger guys be damned.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's incredible. I have him as a 1st rounder.
     
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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed all the way thru..
     
  27. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gun to your head, pull the trigger on Cooks at 19? I don't think that's Dennis Hickey's M.O., but if you were GM?
     
  28. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow, Cooks is small. Definitely prefer a big TE or one of those tackles before a small WR.
     
  29. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Remember the connection that Tannehill had with Ryan Swope at A&M? I see Brandin Cooks fitting in nicely, regardless of size, based on Tannehill's skill set. He's cat-quick and plays bigger than he is. He's a pretty good player in the redzone.
     
  30. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At this point, just strictly offensive weapons I'd like to see Miami consider:

    Lache Seastrunk
    Carlos Hyde
    Jeremy Hill
    Brandin Cooks
    Mike Evans
    Marqise Lee
    Jalen Saunders
    Sammy Watkins
    Jace Amaro
    Eric Ebron
    Troy Niklas

    I realize some of those guys (Watkins, Evans, Ebron) might not make it to 19, but I kept them on there in case Dennis Hickey has some superior "grand vision" for offensive talent that just doesn't seem apparent on the surface.

    I'd be giddy if Miami walked out of Day 2 with Brandin Cooks and Lache Seastrunk in the fold.
     
  31. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like your list. I would love Evans the way he fights for the ball. Hyde or another tough back would be nice. Ebron or similar.

    You don't want to draft any linemen? Martin or Lewan (sp?)?
     
  32. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like Troy Niklas, I really do. And I really appreciate all the work that ck has put into bringing him to our attention ahead of the curve of most draftniks. However, I think Sefarian-Jenkins has had his athleticism doubted and after watching some games of his, I feel as if he is plenty athletic and exhibits more of a "my ball" mentality when he plays. Is Troy Niklas more athletic? Yes. Does he have a higher upside? No doubt. Will he be the better football player? I'm leaning towards no and it's a total gut instinct. I really want to see these two guys' numbers at the combine.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    As always it's a matter of who else is available. I don't take Brandin Cooks over Allen Robinson or Mike Evans, even at his own position. I don't take him over Eric Ebron either. Nor do I take him over Aaron Donald. I'm still in flux about Kyle Fuller and Darqueze Dennard though.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's 5'10" and 190 lbs. That's not big but I wouldn't call it tiny, either. Especially when you consider his 4.3 speed. The way he moves on the football field is a lot like Tavon Austin except where Austin was a neophyte as a wide receiver in terms of running REAL routes and finishing catches, Brandin Cooks is very advanced. He caught 128 balls for 1730 yards and 16 TDs...in 2013 alone.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I respect that. ASJ has better hands and is more polished at catching the football. No doubt. But I don't expect him to be a more complete football player. ASJ seems to block when he feels like it. Very inconsistent that way which is one reason I compared Dion Sims to him. Both guys LOOK like they should be good blockers but in college really were very inconsistent with it. Not surprising that the Dolphins tried to make Dion Sims into a blocking specialist and were really burned for it as he was a pretty bad blocker all year. Michael Egnew was head and shoulders better as a blocker and he was SUPPOSED to be an embarrassment blocking.

    Troy Niklas is such a standout blocker already that he will likely be good at it right out of the box. From there you can work him into the passing game. Rob Gronkowski wasn't as polished at catching the football as ASJ either. But it wasn't long until his huge, beastly frame and natural abilities stood out.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would take those risk factors into play, and the durability issue..and all the film.

    But because the rookie salary cap is in play now, I would select Manziel if I'm the Houston texans..

    I believe he's an incredible football player, a great Qb, and the only issues with him is durability and maybe some immaturity things..After all the review I think his craft will supersede the partying, and he will compete at the highest level.

    The main reason why I would pull the trigger is his awareness on the field,and his eyes in the back of his head, I believe that his intellect will translate that into understanding the sliding game at the next level, it's becoming an art form in itself, and I think he can play that game..
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The problem is, his awareness on the field is not a quarterback's awareness. It's a running back's awareness. He has eyes in the back of his head when it comes to pressure and guys flying at him inside and outside of the pocket. But his actual QUARTERBACK awareness is minimal, and is only good when he's outside the pocket and able to gain clear vision. The ability to process information, to know how the philosophy of your play call interacts with what the defense is showing and then to anticipate things, is just not there. And that's what being a quarterback is all about.
     
  38. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fair. Thanks for the respectful response.
     
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  39. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Agreed. I don't think he will ever be able to play within a system. When you watch him he routinely holds the ball far too long, which was a credit to his great Tackles, but that will hinder him a lot in the NFL. I think he is going to get his world rocked in the NFL.
     
  40. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I was a big fan of Wheaton last year and due to school haven't really had the chance to check out Cook. How would you compare the two?

    Also do you think there is a chance we draft a WR in the top 3 rounds? I feel like we have enough talent at WR to get by, but at the same time I think we could really improve if we found a nice slot guy. Losing Gibson hurt us a lot and as much as I like Gibson he isn't your traditional slot guy.
     

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