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We need Sam ..we need Sam..we need Sam !!!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Feb 14, 2014.

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  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't think he wasn't calling me Satan directly. I believe he's suggesting Satan is working through you, me, DJ, and the rest speaking in support of gay men "destined for hell". So we're apparently supporting Satanic acts I guess. He pretty much said it himself- he didn't come into this thread to spread tolerance and compassion for men being persecuted for same sex attraction. He said his intention was to impose his beliefs upon others, to do the despicable and use a thread about a gay football player as a platform to push Christianity. Here's his quote: "I tried to witness here, teach God's word and encourage some people to get back in church...homosexual or not.". Yup, and Christians don't push their beliefs on others. Surrrrre. :lol:

    I thought I asked a legitimate question about what Christians are actually doing to help stop bigotry during a time where many of their Christian brethren still promote it. Just like in this thread, many Christians will claim "publicly" to have no issues with same sex attraction, but if they're as good a people as they say, then why are they focusing most of their energy on offering salvation rather than dutifully and compassionately trying to stop the hate and persecution just as Jesus selflessly gave his life for others? Isn't that what a truly virtuous, honest individual would do? But hey, Christianity selfishly teaches that salvation can only be obtained through accepting Jesus regardless of how good the person is, that they could be the nicest and most philanthropic individual on the planet but still go to hell. It's a contradictory religion. It wants you to live like Jesus but then places God above character and is built on writings that preach persecution, intolerance, and inhumane acts. So it's essentially telling them- "I want you to be a good person, but that's open to your own interpretation. I don't have any guidelines or checklists for you follow, so just do it at your own will and judge yourself. If you wanna show up Monday through Saturday and take every other Wednesday, have at it. Just make sure Jesus remains your savior and you tip your collection plate on the way out". Christians [even Keith] have gotta understand deep down that persecution is wrong and unfair treatment, but their religion tells them they don't have to be good people if they don't want to when it comes to homosexuality because they've already declared Jesus as their savior and believe they'll go to heaven just the same. What if Christian salvation required kindness and good deeds like Hinduism? Would so many Christians be willing to turn a blind eye in situations like homosexual persecution if they knew there's a chance it might not be looked favorable upon during judgement day?
     
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  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not here to argue with you. I've already answered questions 2-4 multiple times. For #1, the proof will come when you die.
     
  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yup. I hear ya sis. At one point Michael Sam would've just been a man who happens to be attracted to other men, as it should be. He'd just be called a man, no further distinguishing label. Your daughter's gonna be just fine with you there to guide.
     
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  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Will the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, Jainists, et al, all be going to this place you call hell too?
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I've answered your question FOUR times, so I'll try one more time in a completely different way. If you don't get it this time, I give up trying.

    John 3:17 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, so whoever shall believe in him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

    There are many Christians in the world that think, "as long as I ask Jesus to be my Lord, I can do whatever I want in life with no repercussion. I can screw loose women, stay out drinking all night, cuss at people, and I'll still go to Heaven...just read John 3:17." In essence, they consider that one verse of the Bible to be THE ENTIRE BIBLE and they take it as a "do anything I want" verse. What they don't realize, however, is that if you give your life over to God, then you're not going to be acting like life is a constant party. You'll be reading the Bible, getting involved with your family/community, and making Christian friends to help avoid temptation. In 2014, this just doesn't happen anymore...it is the exception to the rule instead of the rule itself.

    Why? Because the world is just too darn tempting. Movies on demand, social media, instant everything...there are far too many distractions in the real world for people to stay in church like they should. Then there's the nut jobs starting their own Holy Wars in the name of God, but "Thou shall not kill" (or covet worldly goods, or commit adultery) is pretty darn specific. These people do not represent the Christian faith, because they're not trying to be Christians except when it's convenient. Yet, that's all you see on TV...the priest that fondled a kid or the mom who beat her kids half to death.

    As I said in the Dahmer example, all groups can be generalized to the point of being a joke. I refuse to claim a political party, for example, because they all have agendas way bigger than what's best for you or me. That doesn't mean all Democrats are corrupt though, nor does it mean that all Christians have hidden agendas. The Bible tells me to witness to the lost (AKA, the people attacking me here) and I've done that, but I've also said over and over again that I'm not better than anybody. I am a sinner that doesn't deserve forgiveness, yet Jesus died on the cross so I have that opportunity through prayer. I'm not trying to convert you or force you to repent though...that's something for you and God to work out.

    Additionally, I have nothing to gain here...I'm not asking you for a thing. For the sake of argument, let's say you're 100% right and I'm just a delusional idiot. No harm, no foul, right? I'll die someday and stay dead. What if I'm right though, and there's a God listening to you attack Him just to amuse yourself? I'd say you have a lot more to lose with your beliefs than I do with mine.

    Earlier, when you asked me for proof...think about this as a parting thought. You say that matter collided with other matter, and it somehow created billions of planets. Now, there are hundreds of thousands that we can see, and so far not a single one of them are ideal for harboring life. Sure, there are a few that look promising, but think about what you're saying pure science does. Out of one big boom, we land in a perfect distance from the sun, with the perfect amount of oceans to keep the Earth rotating optimally in a near-perfect spherical orbit, and we get a big hunk of rock in the optimal place too (the moon). Then, that same boom makes everything from butterflies to humans to dinosaurs to pine trees, plus creates all the food those tens of thousands of creatures need to survive. For the pure heck of it, that big bang also creates flowers and rainbows and mountains and more...just by pure chance. The true miracle of it all though is that the one big boom does all of that JUST HERE, and nowhere else that our telescopes can see. The odds of that happening would be bigger than what we could intelligently calculate.

    Even if you go with the evolution theory, could you possibly conceive how long it would take an amoeba to become an elephant? And an identical amoeba becomes an impala? While science can connect a lot of the dots, there is a massive, unexplained leap in faith that is just as large as my belief in God. So again, we see "proof" very differently here. You're still the one with everything to lose though if I'm right, and all I was doing was trying to show a true Biblical perspective throughout the conversation. Am I qualified to answer everything? Heck no...but I did this out of compassion, not out of spite or anger.

    If you don't want to believe what I believe, then that's perfectly fine, but I do ask that you end this senseless attack on my beliefs. I have been more than patient with other views here and even though I'm against homosexuality, I've not said a single hurtful word to anyone here regarding their choice. Again, I'm not trying to "force my will" or "convert" anyone...I'm just speaking what I believe is the truth. If you can't respect that, then you no longer deserve anyone's respect on this board.
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    β€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”


    ― Bertrand Russell
     
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  7. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its the circumstances of the conversation. These same sort of discussions happened with Jackie Robinson in 1947. Hopefully it will no longer be a point of consideration quicker than race was.



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The human mind is like a parachute. They both only work when they are open.


     
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  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When he started talking about Satan rearing his ugly head, images of Dana Carvey as the Church Lady popped into my head. :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!

    Thanks for sharing and being a part of what makes this forum the best there is.:hi5:
     
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  11. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    β€œI like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”


    ― Mahatma Gandhi
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This conversation has become it's own entity, and that's cool,were all learning about each other..

    My only issue and what my goal was is to demonstrate how dangerous it can be if it is being taught in religious schools when you know there are cases where it is not a choice for the young person, and if you don't think there are cases where it's not a choice for certain individuals, then there is nowhere to go for me..
     
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Laughable how people quote the bible like they know Jesus actually wrote that stuff and this just speaking of Jesus as a mythological figure, but if Jesus loved everyone and healed the blind and the sick and forgave everyone, was that everyone, but gay people?…as if they needed forgiveness. He would also hate everything about the Vatican and all it stands for. Ahh, this is comical.
     
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  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I thought that was from John 3:16.

    Do you believe homosexuality is always a choice? That everyone can just flip a switch and be totally straight if they pray about it? Or if the person cannot change they should just remain celibate?
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    We all have things that we desire, but you're trying to make it out like homosexuality is somehow way different from those other choices. It doesn't matter who you're fantasizing about, unless you're married to them in the eyes of God, it's a sin. DJ brought up how wrong it is for a Catholic teacher to say homosexuality is a sin, but they'd tell a straight kid the exact same thing if they found him fooling around with a girl. There's not a double-standard there; it's the same requirement across the board. People are not trying to re-write the Bible to justify cheating on their wives or having sex before marriage though, and that's where the differences come from.

    To answer your question directly, yes...I believe that it is a choice. My neighbor is 26, sexy as anything you've ever seen, and she flirts with me daily. Honestly, I'd put her on level with Tannehill's wife; she's really that gorgeous. Personally, I have to flip a switch...not because I'm married or because I worry about my kids, but because the Bible tells me that adultery is wrong. Do I like it? No...but I believe that it's a commandment from God.

    Homosexuals face that exact same desire that's in my life, and they're expected to make that exact same decision. Is it harder for them? I have no idea, but I can tell you that I'd really, really love to have sex with the gal down the street. I pray about it though and wipe it from my mind the best I can, so I'm not focused on that temptation. I still think she's gorgeous, but I no longer look at her with a lust in my heart. Honestly, that's my biggest weakness as a Christian so I can completely relate with what DJ said earlier...it is not a double standard though. It is a really tough life choice for everyone involved.
     
  16. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    So, you think it's ok to be gay and for gays to have sex just as long as they are married. You support gay marriage. Cool. You're coming around.

    I bet your wife must love that you want to have sex with another woman and you probably would if not for some imaginary being that told you not to do so. Sad you couldn't make that decision on your own with your heart.
     
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  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Keith you resisting the opposite sex because you are married is different them someone who was born attracted to the same sex and resisting..I can't believe you can't understand what were talking about here, it's almost like your brainwashed sir.

    Teachers should not be telling anyone being gay is a sin..they don't know for sure it's not something some are born with, so until you have proof against, they should change the cirriculum or rewrite the damn bible, lol.

    Because those teachings affect the suicide numbers amongst teenagers dramatically..

    Doesn't that fact bother you?, regardless of what you believe, the teachings itself affect the mind to the point where those teachings will affect the way they look and associate with kids who are different in the way were talking about here..
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    ...in the eyes of God.

    That's a debate for a different day though.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    DJ, I just don't get why you think homosexuals are so incredibly different that they face issues that nobody has ever faced before. Bullying, negative attitudes and just general meanness have been around forever, and kids need to learn to stand up for themselves...or how to get help when they can't. That's nowhere near exclusively a gay thing. Of course it bothers me, but I'm not going to say, "Save the gay kids and the heck with everyone else." That's what you'e looking for here and it's BS.

    Black kids, Asian kids, fat kids, white kids, smart kids, dumb kids, skinny kids, nerdy kids, athletic kids, handicapped kids, rich kids, poor kids....they all get bullied. How can you possibly think it's okay to say that all those kids should be on their own, because all you're worried about is the ones that might become homosexuals? Do you realize how ridiculously wrong that is? It's like you're trying to take racism to a completely new level, all to meet your private agenda.

    As far as what Catholic School teachers should be telling students, I'm not getting into that again. Regardless of what you believe, the Catholic Church does not believe that homosexuals were born into that lifestyle. If you don't agree, then don't send your kids to a religious school. It's that simple.
     
  20. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I bet God loves that picture you have.
     
  21. skp

    skp Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you're saying you know God's will?
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I read my Bible and go to church. It's pretty clear on Heaven and Hell.
     
  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    You're positive God wrote the bible? Now he's a writer? Was it Gods will for the church to get away with so many atrocities?
     
  24. skp

    skp Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see. And where in the bible does it say that using people for slave labor will have you sent to hell?
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    it IS different b/c it's not a f***ing choice. You are ignorant beyond belief if you think instinctual same sex attraction [just as you're attracted to women] is a choice.

    Then according to this, Christians are forcing gays into sin by trying to deny their right to marriage and thus forcing them into premarital sex. Again, if you believe God is the ONLY ONE WHO PASSES JUDGMENT and GAVE MAN FREE WILL for a reason, then every f***ing time a Christian tries to step in and tell others what to do or how to live, he's DEFYING GOD. Right now, you're being a bull**** Christian.

    Bzzt, WRONG!! This in and of itself is a bunch of crap b/c if fooling around before marriage is what matters, then Catholic teachers wouldn't separate it further into homosexual fooling around. It'd just be fooling around, period.

    That's a load of bull****. You clearly don't know your Bible. Western Christians have heavily tried to rewrite or reinterpret the Bible to suit their needs. Like I said above, Christians pushed to deny same-sex marriage in order to denigrate "homosexuals" into the perpetual "sinner" category.

    Ahhh, so you're saying your initial attraction to your neighbor [which recognizes her as "sexy as anything"] is by your choice rather than natural instinct? So you can just turn that switch off and choose to not find her or others like her attractive? So then why don't you make the choice to find hairy fat women attractive instead of this Tannehill wife clone?

    What about your wife?...would you like to have sex with her or are you suggesting you yourself should abstain from sex altogether, because that's what your argument is spewing forth. You keep talking about hypothetically cheating on your wife? WTF does that have to do with anything? If you deny your attraction to your neighbor, you can still have sex with your wife, genius. What you're suggesting with gays isn't about cheating; you're suggesting they should be denied natural feelings of attraction and sex altogether. You're hypocritically saying is, "hey, I can find my neighbor attractive and bang my wife, but gays can't do any of it".

    What you're forgetting is there are states that recognize gay marriage, so if those MARRIED men aren't cheating on their husbands just as you're allegedly not cheating on your wife, then what f***ing sin are they committing? I haven't seen you run around here preaching against the sins of heterosexual premarital sex, so why the hell are you suddenly making it an issue now with same-sex relations? It's b/c you're a hypocrite and a bigot who doesn't know his own Bible. Why aren't you speaking up against the picture of a anti-Christianly provocative female *** in your avatar that might influence temptation on others? Shouldn't you be crusading against yourself?
     
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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    So how many slaves do you own? How much did you get for selling your daughter as a sex slave? How much does your suppressed wife cherish her time relegated to the kitchen and household chores? Did your neighbor enjoy you pillaging his house, butchering his family, and raping his wife and daughter?

    operate word being "it's".
     
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  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You're 100% right...which proves my entire point here. It is natural instinct, but it's not a Godly instinct. The same applies to any relationship that God does not approve of. Thank you for finally getting it.

    And on that note, I really am finished defending Christianity to the heathen hordes. Sorry folks, I took every hateful thing you could throw my way and tried not to return your venom, and I even used mistakes in my personal life to try and get the point across. This stopped being a debate though and it turned into a bunch of asses who just like to argue...so good luck with that. Hopefully you figure some things out on your before it's too late, or maybe someone even dumber than me will figure out a way to show you even more patience than I did. Either way though, God Bless You.
     
  28. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    But don't you think God created nature, the universe?
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Religion is like a *****. It's fine to have one. It is fine to be proud of it. But please don't take it out in public and start waving it around, and please don't try to shove it down anyone else's throat.
     
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  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    He clearly believes he does b/c he's trying to push it on everyone and believes he was divinely granted permission to speak, act, and judge on God's behalf. Otherwise, he would STHU about same sex attraction and leave God to do the judging.

    It's pompous arrogance on any Christian's part to think his own interpretation of the Bible and Christianity is 100% accurate with its original form and intention despite it being a few thousand years later, grapevines later, books later, languages/translations/definitions later, societies later, yada yada yada. I mean c'mon- I would've been labeled a God two thousand years ago had I pulled out a 1980's cell phone and made a call on it. I just find it funny that they treat Christianity as its birth was the year 2000 and the past, working backward through time, was the deviation. They all understand the interpretation or application of the Bible has changed over the years, but when it comes to "homosexuality" they act like the Bible's words are absolute and unwavering. It's a big joke. You either support all of the Bible or none of it. There's no picking and choosing what you want and don't want from it, so anyone whining about "homosexuality" being a "sin" needs to go back to supporting slavery, misogyny, war, etc. If Christianity weren't so modified over the years they'd be closer to what these primitive whacko Westboro Baptists are, would they not? Heck, they'd probably be closer to their relative Islamic religion than present day Christian.
     
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  31. skp

    skp Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "Judge not, that ye be not judged." - Matthew 7:1

    If you really are a Christian, you should know that it's not for you to judge, yet you seem to be doing a fair bit of it. Also, by saying we're going to burn in hell, you think you know God's plan for us. You may want to read up on the meaning of the fourth commandment.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yeah ok. So a man marries another man in a church, never cheats on that man, doesn't engage in premarital sex, but he's somehow still a sinner? hahahaaha. Secondly, it's not your right to judge what is or isn't a Godly instinct since you're not a f***ing God.
     
  33. skp

    skp Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's exactly what I was getting at.

    But who would you have called? you know, 2000 years ago? ;)
     
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  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I know, right. He couldn't be further from living like Jesus Christ. I'm a straight married male who isn't engaging in non-marital sex and is standing up against judgment & persecution of others, yet I'm the one who is sinning. Sh-t, all I gotta do is dunk my head in some water and profess Jesus as my lord and savior and I'm already a better Christian than Keith. :sidelol:
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'd call my voice mail and put it on speaker phone..... and they'd be like, "WHOAAA, how'd you get in there?!!.... and "How are you there.. and here.. at the same time?!!" "Please show us how you turned that water into purple drank again!!!!"..... so I'd turn around and slyly pull out my packet of Kool-Aid and mini bottle of Absolut that I palmed from the space ship, pour 'em in, mix 'em up, then turn back around and be like, "TA DA!"
     
  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    "No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."
    – George Bernard Shaw
     
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  37. skp

    skp Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    LMFAO!!!
    Alright, i bow to your ingenuity. Just don't swing by the 17th century on your way or the Christians would burn you at the stake..
     
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  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Considering how much they are ostracized, why would anyone choose to be gay? When did you choose to be straight?
     
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  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Jimmy seems to disagree with Keith.

    [​IMG]
     
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  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    bullying is an epidemic problem, I'm not trying to save one type of kid, I'm just saying that a kid being bullied because he's a weaker kid is different than a kid who believes in god, who knows he's attracted to the same sex, who is being told he's going to hell because of gods word, who his peers are singling him out because of what they have been taught, then kills themself, is on a different level.
     
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