Phins player rep John Denny goes off on Well's report

Including Martin?

 

Yes. The report is pretty clear in that he joined in the joking.

 

And yet, it portrays Martin as a victim, Cogs/Jerry/Pouncey/Turner as bad guys. Meaning the context of all the events are off. Turner was fired after all. Punishments are still probably coming for some.

 

The fact that Martin participated in the jokes doesn't mean he wasn't a victim. It doesn't absolve the aforementioned players and coach as perpetrators. The jokes they made toward Martin were demeaning and unwelcome. The fact that Martin participated doesn't change the fact that they were unwelcome.

The report is also clear in saying that this is also an unprecedented and unique situation. It also doesn't even suggest any punishment for what transpired.

 

The report also stated that Martin's assertions that he joined in only to fit in with his teamates credible due to his contemporaneous texts and emails with his parents and other friends talking about how he was being abused, couldn't stand up for himself, etc.

 

The report makes it seem like there was a serious problem. Denney likely feels there was not. Denny probably feels that way because he was there and saw it all. For the report to not come to the same conclusion, then, for someone who was there like Denney, it would mean the context of the entire thing was off.

 

The report stated that the team's harassment policy was violated. The facts that led Wells to that conclusion aren't being disputed. Nobody can argue that the team's policy wasn't violated.

The report never even describes the problem as serious, or tries to imply any type of magnitude. It just states the team's own policy was violated.

 

Sure they can. The rule is predicated on being "unwanted". I don't think its a particularly difficult argument to say Martin's actions of participating and laughing it up show the behaviors weren't exactly unwanted...at least to the point people had to lose their jobs. Which is where Denney comes as a player rep, btw.

 

Martin's text messages to family prove they were unwelcome. The only logical argument left for one to take is that Martin sent those messages to his family with the intent of framing teammates for harassment. If that is Denney's argument, then I'd like to sell him a bridge.

There really isn't any evidence that someone has lost their job because of what happened to Martin. Again, Denney is attacking the report, but the report never once suggests any type of discipline be issued. The evidence available regarding the firing of O'Neill suggests it was because he stonewalled and was hostile toward the investigation his own team was undertaking. The firing of Turner very well could be related to his actions, but Denney doesn't represent coaches.

 

Go along to get along, Yawn. That's the same excuse the Nazis used at Nuremberg. Martin is a grade A puss and hypocrite on top of it. The NFL is not for him but he'll make a great lawyer.

 

His texts "prove" nothing other than he sent texts to his parents. Texting ones parents doesn't automatically make something true you know. His actions with his teammates "disprove" they were unwelcome as much, if not more, than those texts 'prove" they were unwelcome.

Turner lost his job because of this. I know Denney deals with players and not coaches. I'm saying since even a coach was fired it makes sense a player may be punished too. Also I'm not saying the rpeort recommended any punishment. I'm saying Denney believes it portrayed things in a certain light...a light that he doesn't feel was true.

 

Obviously you've never heard of Godwin's Law.

And by the way, the Nazi's excuse at Nuremberg was that they were just following orders, so your insanely stupid analogy doesn't even fit.

 

It would help the union rep's position if the union rep informed himself of the topic on which he spoke.

 

Long snappers don't read I guess.

Funniest part of the Sportsbuzz column was Tannehill saying that he started reading the report but was "overwhelmed" by it's 144 pages.

This from the QB and future med student.

Overwhelmed by a 144 paper.

 

So your argument is that he sent fake texts to his parents? If thats your argument, by all means have at it.

The light isn't being disputed. To this point, the only real dispute anything has made was the claim that Martin's texts to his parents were fake.

 

he's only a long snapper we can get another, younger and cheaper

 

No, I'm sure the texts were real. I'm sure his feelings were real. I said it could be easily argued that his behavior disproves the behavior was unwelcome.

Except for Denney, O'Neil and MacDonald. And of course the assistant trainer guy took exception to how he was portrayed as well, plus they left off how he confronted Cogs about it directly and it magically stopped without a huge issue. Other than that, you're right, no one is challenging anything.....

 

Then you agree that the team's policy was violated.

What specifically did these guys challenge? You've yet to actually cite anything specific.

 

It doesn't change the fact that Martin joined in and participated, nor does it make it right.

Personally, I believe the behavior was unwanted and may have made Martin uncomfortable, but to me that means little because he never expressed that to any of the alleged perpetrators or to the coaches or team management. In that type of environment, in which crude jokes are made all the time, if you don't express that it bothers you then you have little right to complain about it, especially long after-the-fact and in a manner that causes others to be suspended or fired. Martin is a grown man, not an 11-yr old kid.

My friends and I have made all kinds of "insensitive" and vulgar remarks to one another joking around. Stuff that if published would look every bit as bad as the stuff in the Wells. But we all knew it was just joking around and, frankly, it is fun and we bond over it. If you laugh about that stuff and participate, you can't fairly come out months or years later and report it to some authorities and claim it made you uncomfortable, even if it did. As Martin himself recognized and admitted, his failure or "inability" to confront them about the stuff he didn't like was his own fault.

Assuming the assistant trainer had never been a part of that kind of joking, the stuff that was said or done to him was way off-base. But none of the stuff said to Martin or Players A or B shocked me at all. Jokes about doing sexual things to Martin's suister, who none of them had ever met? Seriously? I could see it possibly being upsetting if they had met her, but since they hadn't, I don't really see how that is any different from your basic "yo mamma" joke. The gay razzing of Player A was politically incorrect, but since it doesn't appear that it bothered him and there is no indication that he is even really gay, I just don't see that as all that big a deal. Incognito's use of the N-word, which apparently happened only once or twice, looks bad but it also looks like it was used just for shock value and with no real racist intent. Now that Godwin's Law has already been invoked, I'll say that I have a very good friend with whom we bust on one another and make inappropriate jokes who when we are cutting on one another will say things like " . . . if only they had given Hitler just a little more time so that he could finish the job . . . ." I know that he is not anti-semitic at all, but it certainly looks bad in black and white and taken out of context.

 

Nope. If it were me personally I would challenge how one defines unwelcome. It would seem to me while the behavior was happening, it wasn't unwelcome based on anything anyone involved could legitimately go by. I think his feeling afterwards were real, but I doubt he fake laughed and participated.

MacDonald, Oneil, Denney all said they disagree with the light this was portrayed in. You could tweet them if you want.

 

Your argument isn't with how unwelcome is defined. It is whether the other parties could be held responsible for unwelcome behavior if they had no reason to believe it was unwelcome.

So you are saying that you don't actually know what they disagree with? You're simply basing your opinion off of their claims?

 

Guilt makes a person do strange things.

 

Their behavior can't be justified by what you and your friends do, which is really irrelevant.

The report was about what was going on in the workplace, which is a different animal than what any group of friends does on their own time.

If the texts were all there was, maybe the findings would have been different, but there was a ton of harrasment inside the workplace which simply can't be tolerated. You are asking for trouble, even if Garner, McDonald and the trainer handled it.

You might find one secretary in your office who doesn't mind you slappping her ***, but you still would be immediately fired if you did it.

 

W

Well, boo-hoo. Then the ones who can't handle any kind of adversity (in the lockerroom) need to find another occupation.
Maybe Martin would make a great flight attendant, but who knows? That might change though when he spills hot coffee on a passenger than starts banging on the cockpit door for the Captain to land the plane or he will sue the Airline.

 

You realize there's a great chance Ross is bringing back Martin to the team as a PR move that his locker room is good. I'm willing to bet Martin is on the roster next season..

 

Did you read the report?

 

Having studied the Weimar Republic, Nazi Party, WW2 and related topics extensively I can assure you there was a lot more to it than "following orders".

You've obviously never experienced the locker room settings you're so intent on offering your opinion on so I can forgive you for seeing things the way you do, but I do find your tone to be a bit judgmental.

 

"Experiencing locker room settings" shouldn't have any bearing on whether the team's policy was violated. There is nothing in the policy that qualifies behavior as normal for NFL locker rooms or not.

 

He's a great long snapper and ST's player. What game was it where he got that fumble? Never thought he had a shot at it.

 

I disagree. Experiencing locker room settings is essential to understanding what's going on from the players' perspectives. What Denney is saying is that what went on in Miami's locker room was neither unusual nor extreme and I agree with him.

 

I agree with him as well. Doesn't really change anything in regards to the report. The report doesn't say this is abnormal behavior.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

How about better? Poor long snapping has cost teams games with playoffs on the line before. Not a place I'd want to cut corners personally.

 

I don't care what you've studied. Comparing Jon Martin to the Nazis at Nuremberg is asinine, stupid, moronic and frankly incredibly offensive.

 

Reading comprehension my friend, try some. Or should I add that to the rapidly growing list of subjects you seem to know nothing about?

 

I'm in Canada, thankfully I don't have to watch ESPN.

Besides, I'd rather watch hockey than hear anything related to this franchise. Wake me up on draft day.

 

I'm not your friend.

You made the analogy, not me. And it was an incredibly stupid one.

And it means you automatically lose whatever argument you were trying to make.

That's what Godwins Law is. You violated it, you lose.

 

Sigh. Saying "my friend" doesn't mean we're friends, at least not for anyone under 50. Second, this is a discussion, you have your opinion others have theirs. There are no winners or losers.

Lastly, just give it up already. You read a little paper and now you think you're the expert on what's acceptable in a locker room. I suppose you could read the Army field manual and then go lecture soldiers on how to behave in a war zone. LOL. You'd sound just as ignorant as you do now.

 

Did I hear someone got violated? Yellow King?

 

lol...i love that show. it has a Dexter-ish feel to it.

 

The only ignorant person is the one who uses a Nazi reference in a completely inapplicable and inappropriate way.

You see avoiding comparing trivial things to Nazism is a societal norm and people who do so not only sound really stupid, but also have no real argument to back up what they're saying, so they bust out the Nazis.

Everyone, in any workplace, has rules they have to follow. Just because you don't like those rules for whatever reason is meaningless