Skov didn't work out at the combine but anybody who has watched him play can tell you: 1. he can't run a 4.5(maybe a 4.8) and 2. He's very instinctual, but no where near the athlete that Kuechly is. I don't want you to get the idea that I dislike Skov but Luke is a bad comparison for him.
Wait, they can't just DO that. I mean, there are unions and contracts and stuff that would have to be sorted out. And besides, what team in the MLB would take him?
You said before, all you would need to know if you were a scout was combine results and tackle totals. I gave an example of why tackle totals don't give a good gauge. Where were the tackles made? At or behind the LOS or 5 yds downfield? The longer a defense stays on the field, the most chances there are of course for defenders to rack up more tackles. The ideal defensive series would generally be 3 and out. Like you say, Skov has good instincts. Luke may not be a good comparison because he does too and can likely run faster. However, better instincts can offset average speed. Bryan Cox ran 4.9 to 5.0 forties and had a terrible combine, but he was very instinctive, which was why he started from the get go as a rookie. I will be interested to see how well Skov does run. If he cannot run as fast as Luke, he needs to be more instinctive to make up for it. That could be debatable whether he is or not.
Luke Kuechly is on his way to the HOF. I don't think it is fair to compare normal players to him. Extremely gifted player. Kuechly and Kaepernick should have been Dolphins. Not Pouncey and Tannehill. If you want a real dark horse candidate to play inside backer in the NFL, enter the real Zach Thomas look alike. NDSU's Grant Olson. Olson may be one of the most instinctive players to ever walk onto to a football field. If he hadn't blown out his knee at the end of last season he may have been drafted late. Just to give you a small idea of what this kid was all about; he once, in a 2012 playoff game, registered 29 tackles.....ya, in one game, not in an early season mismatch game, but a playoff game. Sure, it is MVC in the FCS, but still. He is 6'0" 230 and runs a 4.8, pretty much Zach's speed and size, with similar instincts and intelligence as well as some other similarities in makeup and personality. Olson led the Bison defense to three consecutive national championships. He was an outstanding leader in every respect. Dolphins could use some men like him. He might get on a practice squad later next year if he heals fast. http://www.gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4599
Luke not only has the speed and athleticism to go sideline to sideline but also the speed and athleticism to get down the seam and turn his head around..the angles that Kuechly takes to the ball is exceptional..
I do when it comes to speed, but I would be thrilled to have him as our middle linebacker and would drop my 2nd round pick on him.. Luke is just special Clean, when he was coming out, he was my first round pick that year, then Wilson of course..what made him a top ten pick was his uncanny ability to stay on his feet, keep clear of trash around his feet, and explode to the ball with no wasted steps, it was his fluidity in his drop, he's just a more concise athlete when it comes to the game, he has that awesome combination of athleticism, intelligence and instincts. Shayne just lacks that kind of elite athletic ability, but he makes up for it some with an aggressive approach to the game, he's a true bad *** and I would love him on our team..what he is on par with Luke is shedding big blockers, blitzing, leadership! toughness and timing..he will blow #### up.. If he's there in the 2nd, lock it in Clean, plug him in, and let him play next to Dion Jordan...holy crap that exciting.. We need his leadership so bad, he will bring an identity that we have lacked forever...
Revisionist history. Kaepernick at #15 would have been an epic reach and because of that, the Tannehill/Kuechly comparable is off the table. Kuechly is on his way to the Hall of Fame? Really? Dude is in year 2, slow down on that. On topic: The Misi to the middle thing has been discussed by every staff, every offseason, for three years. I'd just do it. Anything/anyone is better than Ellerbe. Misi may not have the instincts to play the position at a super high level but his instincts MUST be better than Ellerbe's. Move Misi to the middle, have Jordan on the field EVERY down, have Ellerbe and Wheeler fight for scraps and cut them both after the season. Hell, with Jelani Jenkins in the picture we may have an in-house replacement if he develops a little more. At worst he's a passing down player. I don't doubt we will have to draft a guy though who can compete but with the GLARING holes (safety, right tackle, guard, running back) drafting a middle linebacker at #19 seems a little crazy. When the right side of your offensive line is currently air you are kind of in a tough spot.
I love Shayne Skov but I think he's going to have to take a back seat on pass plays at least initially until you feel he has begun proving himself there. His lack of athleticism means you need him to be very sharp in order to trust him as a coverage linebacker, and will that happen as a rookie? Probably not. I think C.J. Mosley probably deserves top billing on that basis even if Skov looks better in base packages against the run and on the blitz. Chris Borland really hasn't ever given me better than lukewarm feelings. If I'm being honest, that's the case. If I had to pick out sleepers specifically for the MIKE position then I still focus on two guys...Eddie Lackey and Jack Tyler. One has what I think will test out as elite speed, and the other has elite instincts. One is built well enough for the game and the other probably isn't. But between the two I imagine one of them could overcome his weaknesses and make a difference.
There's just a way that Jack Tyler flows from filling his primary assignment to secondary assignments that appeals to me. Maybe I'm just seeing it wrong, I dunno. Sometimes linebackers are a mystery to me. But watch this game. This is a video of DE James Gayle, not MLB Jack Tyler (who is #58 working the MLB position). [video=youtube;-HPlDN8bDAE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HPlDN8bDAE&feature=player_embedded[/video] This isn't supposed to be a highlight of Tyler but you really see some appealing things on these plays. He's clearly using down and distance situations, formations and film study to "guess" before the snap what's going to happen. He's moving forward immediately after he can see the ball snapped on what he thinks are going to be run plays. That's happening before he can read movement in the backfield or the blocking pattern, so there's a level of intelligence and film study aiding his efforts. But he's always staying lined up with the back that is his primary responsibility, when that is the case. He's immediately responsive. But then flows seamlessly from that to either blitzing the quarterback or following the quarterback's eyes into the passing lane when he's read that the back is staying in to block. On pass plays again, he has the look of a film study guy so he seems to know what's happening before the snap. Just look at 3:40 in the above video and really take a step back, think about what you're seeing. It's 2nd & 10. That's often a run play. In the NFL it's 59% passing, 41% running. Aside from short yardage, 1st & 10 is probably the heaviest run down in the NFL at 49% passing, 51% running. But 2nd & 10 isn't all that far behind it. But on this play look where Jack Tyler is lined up. He's 7 yards off the ball, lined up top defend the seam from the inner-most slot receiver to the strong side. And at the snap, does he come forward? Absolutely not. As soon as he sees the snap he's backing up and getting to the seam. As the guy he's initially defending crosses further to the left and goes deeper, Tyler knows the safety should be there so he's flowing to where the outer-most slot receiver is now threatening the seam. The safety gets there and makes the interception. That's perfect zone coverage. Everyone doing their assignments. Thing is...look at the very next play in the video. This is 2nd & 10 again. Run down? Pass down? Can't tell by the situation. Yet where's Jack Tyler lined up, and what's he doing at the snap? He's now only 5 yards off the ball and as soon as he sees the snap he's moving downhill. Notice everyone is spread way the hell out in the formation. Some folks see spread and think pass. Jack Tyler has done the film study, knows his assignment and priorities and he's filling for the draw. And if it happens to be a play-action, he's going to take away the tailback first and read the quarterback, either blitz him or follow his eyes to the passing lane. I'm not saying this is all that difficult, I'm just appreciating the fact that he's doing it consistently. You can pick out almost any play from a highlight film that's not even supposed to be his and you'll see subtleties like this in every play. I'm really looking forward to seeing his Pro Day numbers. I think he could be more athletic than people are assuming.
If you want a guy that reminds me of the way Luke Kuechly thought and reacted on the football field coming out of Boston College...it's Jack Tyler. He's just not as physically impressive as Kuechly.
Not to jump into your conversation....but borth IMHO will be overdrafted...decent players but limited upside.....and yes my 2 cents does have his eyes on a couple potential high top end players at that position...Brandon Denmark from FAMU an Illini transfer with a ton of potential and Andrew Jackson a quick twitch lb from Western Kentucky from Lakeland that grew up a lot physically at WKU and is a high energy athletic guy with a ton of tuff. That's my drive by for the week...good to see you Clean...hope all is well.
take max bullough in the 5th round and call it a day. the only reason he isnt a 2nd round prospect is because of his recent suspension. 2-time all big 10 first team, 3rd team all american, 2-time team captain, 4.7 speed, 30 reps, led the nation's best defense. he could be our burflict.
I read all the pub about Skov early last year but when I did see him play I was less than impressed. He seemed to do pretty well but no way is he 1st round talent, imo. He also looked slow and just did not appear near as dominant as Keuchly was on the college level. That's jmo.
Off topic but the entire video of the Alabama-Virginia Tech game should be re-named "Kyle Fuller 2013 Highlights".
There is one glaring weakness with this analysis: It makes too much #$%* sense for them to do it! (Rarely, it seems, has Dolphin staff or management done something that actually makes that much sense).
I think this may be more about cross-training Misi, then a 100% position swap. Allow him to earn snaps as he loses outside snaps to Wheeler, Jordan, and Jenkins. Misi as a MLB could mean that a major weakness during a game is not detrimental to winning it. Last season, the following were the biggest letdowns: Blitzing from the secondary lost its unpredictability; Ellerbe had some very bad games; and Ellerbe and Wheeler's inability to stop teams from running out the clock. Misi addresses the 1st as one of the most relentless pursuer and tackler; the 2nd provides Coyle with a legitimate replacement when Ellerbe goes into one of his funks; and in the 3rd he benefits from a tighten field as RBs avoid going out of bounds.
I'm willing to let it happen to find out, Misi is a big strong dude, he can fill a hole, he can take on a tackle and shed, I know he's a better coverage linebacker than most think, so there might a chance where he can stay on the field all three downs, the only think that would be a question is whether or not he can diagnose quick enough for The position...Skov is still very much in play at #2
I don't think the kiddies are going to get that. But I did and if he could live up to that bring him aboard. Hell if he could just tackle Fred Jackson I'd be happy.
Why is Dion Jordan not a good fit for DE all of a sudden? Is it just because Vernon & Wake are there? I think it's time we start thinking about Dion, or Vernon, as Wake's replacement. I'm not sure we'll be contending while Wake is still a beast. I'm still baffled that we can't get Vernon, Wake & Jordan all on the field with the idea of them getting to the passer.
Olivier Vernon made a splash with a nice stretch where he got sacks, but if you're looking for players that disappeared down that awful stretch run where we couldn't even mount a respectable effort against the Bills and Jets...Vernon is pretty much front and center of that. He got 1 pressure on the quarterback in the two games combined...out of 51 pass rush attempts. That's really quite terrible. As a comparison, Wake had 9 pressures on the quarterback over the 51 pass rush attempts. Dion Jordan only had 1 pressure but it was on only 16 pass rush snaps. Even the defensive tackles put more pressure on the quarterback than Vernon. Odrick had 3 pressures on 53 snaps. Starks had only 1 pressure but on 40 snaps instead of 51 snaps. Paul Soliai had 1 pressure but on only 22 snaps. That's the thing about Vernon...if you REALLY looked at the sack total (which was admittedly high) you saw a lot of sacks that came from: A) Motor plays where the QB was flushed out of the pocket by someone else and Vernon chased him down B) Specialty plays where Vernon rushed the interior over a guard I'm not completely positive (would have to look at the tape) but I don't think the Dolphins really committed to sending Vernon to the interior on pass rush downs even though he had made a number of his plays that way. It was something I think they continued to only do on a handful of plays. The problem is the manner in which he made those plays and got those sacks is not consistently replicable unless you make a commitment to more often putting him in position to replicate them. If he had shown skill as an outside pass rusher that would be one thing but to date we still haven't really seen that. Doesn't mean it won't develop, but it's still not there. Even as a rookie, Dion Jordan was a better outside pass rusher. Vernon ranked only 38th out of 52 among 4-3 defensive ends when it comes to pass rush efficiency, which measures pressures as a percentage of pass rush snaps. I agree with those that believe we need to see an increase in opportunities given to Dion Jordan, who ranked 24th in the same group.
I agree with this. No real harm in finding out if he has the instincts to excel at MLB. It seems like an experiment worth trying. I agree that Misi is better in coverage than many here give him credit for and he could be a 3-down MLB if he shows the play diagnosis ability at that spot. And I have always felt Jordan would be better utilized at OLB than at DE.
I don't think anyone thinks he's not a good fit to play DE or giving up on his potential as a pass rusher, but the guy should probably be used in a varied role. He's got the potential to be a really excellent coverage player, and has had success covering good tight ends and even receivers at times. Being a guy who can cover as well as rush is a really big added benefit, and might make him more dangerous as a rusher and might make the defense better even if it means he's rushing a smaller percentage of the time. It's also going to theoretically let you put more dangerous package on the field. I'm not sure they're really looking at seriously at playing Jordan at OLB in the base package(even though they should IMO), but they gave him snaps there in Nickel packages. They did get all three on the field at the same time in that capacity, from Vernon as a reduced interior defender, to Jordan as a LB in a 4-2 Nickel.
I get it about the athleticism. However, being a bottom line results guy, I'm not so sure Skov won't be as productive for the lucky team that drafts him. Some of the draftniks here do not seem to like Borland, and I can't see it. This guy is white Mike Singletary, which is the same thing I was calling Zach Thomas in March 1996, and was begging JJ to take him at every one of our picks from the 3rd round on.
No one expected he could make the conversion when another undersized college DE named Tedy Bruschi was moved to ILB either.
So you really like both Skov and Borland.. I'll say this, I think it's very important that we draft a middle linebacker who has something about him that can lead, an edge, toughness, can control the bloodzone type player..at this point I think I'm gonna take Skov over Shazier, I haven't heard anyone go there, but when I'm watching Shazier I'm seeing a kid that's getting moved from his point of attack and pushed around..I'm not seeing that with Skov..
Why wouldn't we take a player who breaks all the rules when it comes to players with his size, why wouldn't we take a player who moves like a gazzelle in space and find ways to allow him to play defense in it. I know this sounds crazy but I think this player would be most dangerous if he could see the whole field..
Yup, I know you see his ability to be explosive going in all directions, obviously I don't want him to take on tackle and guards trying to fill gaps for the run, but the best I've seen his skillset on display is when he played that deep middle backer/spy position.. Is there something there in full time role, or is outside the best bet.?
I'm fine with that. He did a really great job in coverage as I remember too. I guess where my head is leaning...we used the #3 pick on a guy with the intent he was going to get to the passer and cause negative plays and turnovers. I think it's much harder to defend the pick, if we're saying he's one helluva a coverage linebacker at #3. Now, if he can do that varied role as you mention, where he's doing a little bit of both, I think you're using his strengths. I just see how gifted he is and I don't see how we can't develop that into a guy that's dangerous getting to the QB AND a guy that can run with TE's.
I agree with that. I think Vernon's sack totals were inflated. However, there's been a few players that have made a great living on motors. I don't think you bank on him being the guy that consistently gets pressure on QB's though, because clearly he isn't that guy, i.e like Wake.
I hear ya. So, when I think of a great OLB, I think of Lance Briggs. Can he be Lance Briggs? Can he be this guy Because if he can, that's awesome. But if not, I just don't think you use the #3 pick on a guy that's a fantastic coverage OLB. Maybe, I just need to move on from that and hope he's as good of a player as he can be.
Sorry for turning the conversation to Dion Jordan. Regarding Misi, I want to keep him at OLB. Misi was much better in coverage this year I thought. I think this best position is setting that edge and containing the run (in the 3-4), but I liked him at OLB. If we're looking to overturn the LB position, I'd be much more interested in signing a FA (although with Spikes gone, not sure anyone else is out there) or drafting our MLB. At that point, you deal with it, and just hope to cut ties with those guys after this year.
There's got to be a way to have this player be the hybrid of all hybrids..I've see him come off a corner blitz and get to the Qb, I've seen him fake the blitz and explode back into coverage in seemingly one movement, we've see him go sideline to sideline, we've seen him not give up a completion, we've seen his forty yards down field getting his head turned around.we've seen him spy beautifully.
I will say this, if Coyle can't find a way to use Jordan better, then no mistake Coyle has made would be more egregious.
