Eagles offered a 2nd rounder and Brandon Graham for Dion Jordan a couple months ago

In three years the best player of those involved is probably going to be Dion Jordan. That's all I need to know. We need impact players who change games, and Jordan is the most likely to be that guy.

 

I agree. There's two problems here, one is that Coyle can't seem to figure out how to get Jordan on the field and two that Philbin schedules his in-season routine as such so there's no coaching of players.

That's the reason we drafted Jordan to begin with, because they didn't coach up Vernon during the season and didn't know they had a double digit sacker in him - despite the fact he also showed great flashes in limited playing time and on special teams. Coupled with the fact that Oregon wasn't out of school so Jordan couldn't get into the facility and the fact that Jordan was recovering from injury, essentially removed his entire rookie season from any coaching at all last year. Everything he did last year was based on pure athletic ability and the coaching he received at Oregon. People want to declare him a bust while Chip Kelly is trying to do his best to acquire the guy via trade. Something doesn't add up here, and what doesn't add up is that our coaching staff stinks.

Finally, Jordan is a tremendously athletic player - he was no reach at #3 overall. He demonstrated that playing OLB at Oregon. Our OLBs stink. We suddenly have a glut of DE's. When they did put Jordan in the game last year it was to cover the league's best TE's in Gronkowski and Graham, and he did so at a very high level. As a result? Coyle has slammed the door shut on any possibility of playing Jordan at OLB. How does any of that make any sense at all?

As far as Brandon Graham go, he was a player I wanted the Dolphins to draft in 2010 along with Earl Thomas, instead we traded down and drafted OddPick, a steady but unspectacular player. (Any resemblance to Zach Martin is not coincidental.) So I would have no problem acquiring him, but for a 2nd round pick and Jordan? No, sorry.

 

Funny. I remember, leading up to that draft, you, dj and I liked Brandon Graham a lot. He was my choice with the Phins pick. I really haven't followed him much since he;s been in the NFL. I never really heard his name. I thought he wasn't really setting the world on fire like i thought he would. I have to look at some recent film of him, but the numbers you cite are pretty interesting. Have to check it our.

 

Our front office obviously values Dion a great deal.. but I think if someone offered a late first round pick they would definitely trade him. Hell if the Eagles offered Lane Johnson I would trade him... put Lane on the right side and have ourselves one of the best offensive lines in football... take a linebacker in the first round...

 

But but but people on here said don't listen to LaCanfora though? Smh.

 

Here's what La Canfora said:

"A year after trading up to get Dion Jordan with the third overall pick in the draft, the Dolphins have begun shopping him to other clubs, league sources said. Miami has talked to other teams already to gauge Jordan's trade value."

Miami asked around, and now we know that a. the Eagles made an offer, and b. what that offer contained. There's nothing incongruous here.

 

No, no.

We don't know Miami asked around. We know the Eagles contacted them. That's a huge difference and challenges the notion that Miami "shopped" Jordan.

 

Look at it this way, is Graham light yrs ahead of say O Vernon?

Nope, and he is going into the last yr of his contract and was pedestrian his first two yrs, if Jordan had trouble getting on the field over Vernon, what exactly would a soon to be FA in Graham offer?

Not much, and a 2nd rd pick is worth jackola in point of fact, unless one just worships the draft process and not outcomes. Just as likely to bust, or go through "first yr learning process" ala Jordan as not.

All in all, that deal is a non starter from any sense other then stick up his backside Philbin probably does not like Jordan's ethic very much.

We'd be better off with the status quo w/Jordan ready to step in behind Wake and Vernon and Shelby playing DE when OV slides to DT, then we would to add Graham.

That is one the reasons why I rarely bother with sports media, they just blast out.

 

No there hasn't.

 

http://walterfootball.com/dionjordantrade.php

Food for thought.

For Graham and the 22nd? I'd need to think about it a lot, but depend on whats on the board,. I might pull the trigger.

 

I would not. The contract situation of Graham makes it a very ****ty trade.

 

The poll results are the most interesting.

78 people believe the trade would be even for both sides.
100 people believe the Eagles would be getting the better deal.
325 people believe the Dolphins would be getting the better deal.

That may give you an idea of how Dion Jordan is viewed outside of Miami's bubble.

 

For me the trade would depend on Brandon Graham's medical outlook. He's a TREMENDOUS pass rusher in a 4-3. Walter hit the nail on the head in that. And when he re-does his contract, he's not going to get big money at all. The question is what effect the microfracture surgery he had in December of 2010 will have on his remaining career.

Ultimately I'm pretty sure I would do the deal in question for the #22 pick. I've seen people make some silly statements about how only stupid people would do that deal or blah blah blah. Ok. Fine. I'm stupid. I don't know anything about football. Yes I'd probably do the deal trading away the guy that doesn't fit our system for a guy that fits it better, plus a 1st round pick.

With picks #19 and #22...there's some talent in this draft. Dupree would you be so adamantly opposed if that extra pick means we get your boy Brandin Cooks? Because ultimately, that's what it's all about.

 

Do believe that is known as "common sense", at worst Dio is a player who can cover Te's in the modern NFL 2 Te sets, at best he is JT jr, so let's just dump him for a late #1 and a soon to be FA with knee issues and call it "done"

Yep, gotta luv sports media

Quite simply, I study passrushers, there has not been a #1 pick, DE/OLB with Jordan's skillset who has busted, usually guys his height either are not as fast, or explosive, or who have his resume' in dropping back into coverage with his skillset.

And the Q still stands, why would you trade Dio for a DE, who has no clear role, and will be a FA, and has knee issues, and a probable bust of a draft pick?

Talent over scheme, it is the Staff that keeps players off of the field, we could rewind and rehash what was said about the then Baby Squid (O Vernon) coming into the 2013 season.

One would find many of the same things being said, I liked OVs ankle flexion, it is the mark of a passrusher, I stand behind Dion Jordan being an Elite player w/forward and reverse gears who needs to both get stronger and the poa and to learn to use leverage..ala JT..who also was blown out v the Run but JJ/Wanny stuck with him and gosh..what happened.

 

That would be nice.

It is mostly Graham's contract. Isn't he on the last season of his rookie contract? IMO, Eagles get a much better deal because they get Dion Jordan cheap with little to no risk, and the Dolphins get a guy who if he is as good as you say might turn out to be expensive. If they could get Graham on a 3 year deal, then I think the trade could be good on both ends.

It would be nice if Miami used the 19th or 22nd pick on an offensive playmaker like Cooks, while still getting a RT to make all of the hog people happy.

 

For his first two years all JT did was speed rush. I remember people hating him so much for being one dimensional in the early days.

 

Scheme fit?

In the NFL you keep talent, you fire coaches who cannot adapt to the talent they have, think Trestman gave two damns about Brandon Marshall's attitude after Smith was fired?

Nope, happy to have him.

THAT is the league, Philbin adapts or he will be fired as well, my only concern is Hickey has little investment in Jordan so such a lunatic trade would make sense to him in the "Win now' league..ie if it goes down..Ross fails fans again

 

I would like to know more about Grahams knee, but 22 and him if the knee is good long term is pretty damn tempting.

I would also like to know the actual cost. What it costs us to trade Jordan and what Graham will cost.

 

Yep, and keep in mind, JT played a lot, was moderately productive, and does not have Jordan's physical talent in terms of forward and reverse gears.

BUT, JJ/Wanny stuck with him, the HoF career ensued.

The mark of a future great player is they make plays happen even in limited playing time, Jordan played minor snaps, still had a tipped pass that led to a Td that turned into the game winner.

So let's trade him!

 

We lost that game.

 

When it comes to contract negotiations, a few things are going to absolutely KILL Graham's leverage. They are his medical history and his pure lack of production. I think you share my view on what an effective and efficient pass rusher he's been and it may be leading you to assume he's going to get a bigger contract than he actually is in line for. But personally I would be shocked if the contract value is a whole lot more than the contracts we've seen Antwan Barnes kick around the last few times he's been a free agent....UNTIL Graham actually puts up some numbers. Like you, I'd look to get Graham on a 3 year deal immediately. This is because I suspect he could put up some great numbers in Miami.

 

I would have a very hard time turning down both Graham and the 22nd overall, even though it would mean the Eagles have 2 of the top 5 picks from the 2013 draft class

I also ready somewhere that Graham has a 6th year team option in his contract for under $4 million. His 2014 salary would be #1.6 million

 

Yep looking back, that was the gm where Sturgis had his potential GW kick blocked when the Ravens broke some osbscure rule, one that wound up biting the patsies the next week.

Still point stands, limited playing time and impact plays, which imo, bodes poorly for Jamar Taylor..he did jackola..hey, wasn't he a second rd pick?

The only scenario where I could see a trading Jordan would be to land a long term, proven solution, to our eternal LG problem, not some BS draft pick, a proven Vet who is a pro bowler or consistently plays at a PB level.

Otherwise, pass on Graham and a "maybe' #22 pick, inmy pov, both are maybes and Graham has no clear role here to begin with, if Coyle could not find things for Jordan to do, who exactly would Graham move to the bench? Vernon? Wake?

Value for Value, would you bet on a #3 pick with Jordan's skills, or a #22 pick, who could be anyone, and a player who also has 'no clear role" in Graham.

Neither, this is why I chuckle at the trade BS and glad it was passed on, it solves nothing.

TBH, Mathis + the #22 would be far far more tempting to me at least and Mathis is over 30

 

I do not think we were offered a first.

now a trade I would take would be their first and Lane Johnson, mostly because it is impossible to not justify the value.

 

Eagles are shopping Brandon Graham around and want a 4th round pick for him. No takers thus far but the Bengals are supposedly considered a likely destination.

 

We know Miami asked around because La Canfora reported it. We now know the details of one offer they received after asking around.

 

I actually think Graham plus the 22nd is the better deal than Jordan for Johnson straight up. In the latter, no one really gets better as Philly loses their LT and does not have an adequate chance to replace him. Miami gets a RT and has to find the successor for Cam Wake in a weak DE draft class. Both teams take huge cap hits.

Ultimately, losing $10 million in cap space is a pretty big deal when it can rolled over, so on that merit alone I think a deal won't get done.

 

We also know the Dolphins FO flat out denied the report by La Canfora. I'd bet La Canfora caught wind of the offer by the Eagles and assumed that the Phins were the ones who picked up the phone. Now that we also know the Eagles are actively shopping Graham, it seems more likely that they made the call.

 

Yeah, two words.....La Canfora....hehehe

 

lol. Ok.

 

I'm confused as to why the Eagles would be willing to move Brandon Graham for only a 4th round pick when you've clearly demonstrated he's actually worth two players considering how often he pressures the QB?

The again, I'm not sure where you are getting your "QB pressures" statistics from. I'm personally interested in seeing those statistics because they seem to be fantastic, yet at the same time Graham has about as many sacks as any other 2nd or 3rd string street free agent over the same period of time. The question then, if he's so great at providing pressure - why isn't he closing the deal and actually get sacks? How do the players who rank lower in "pressures" rank in terms of actually making sacks?

So I'm eager to see the full statistics you are basing your conclusions on.

And assuming this latest piece of information is true, then the actual trade is a 2nd round and 4th round pick for the #3 overall pick in last year's draft.

That doesn't seem very good to me.

 

maybe cause the outlook on the microfracture repair of his knee does not have a good long term prognosis given his high/intense level of activity??

 

We're not going to get Brandon Graham in the fourth round. Has the negotiating window closed yet? Reel him in with an extension and a lot of secondary concerns go out of the window with that pass rush.

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Freakish athletic DEs like Aaron Maybin, Vernon Gholston, Jamaal Anderson etc are not immune to busting.

I'd like to believe Dion Jordan won't turn out the same. But its certainly not out of the question. And with the above examples it was known more or less after their rookie seasons that they weren't going to live up to their draft position. With pass rushers I feel you usually know after their first full season. And it would seem that the coaches don't have much confidence in Jordan.

So if #22 and Graham with an affordable extension is on the table I'd pull the trigger

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Where is this coming from?