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GoT4:4614

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by NaboCane, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If my life were a comic book, you'd be the corrupt cop no one likes.
     
  2. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    NJ
    You expect me to stick my neck out for a measley forty grand a year? While all these scumbags walk away with that in a week? Wake up Francis...the system is broken. Justice is dead.
     
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  3. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    The Thenns are the only wildlings that have a Seven Kingdoms-like social structure. They have a lord, they engage in industry, they have organized succession, and they have defined lands. They were never cannibals.

    After Styr dies in the books, his son marries Alys Karstark to create House Thenn. Cannibalism kind of gets in the way of that concept.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ...he said while taking the protection money from the strip club owner. He then shifts his hat, downs his shot and slaps a stripper's *** on the way out the door.
     
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  5. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    When I said justice was dead...I was indeed, talking about a stripper.
     
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  6. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Yeah. its a bit weird. Does Mance Rayder allude to hating the Thenn's when he talks to jon about how he united the 9 clans on the show? he mentioned one they all hated.
     
  7. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    When talking about the effort it took to unify the wildlings, he says that all the wildlings hate the cave people.

    The Thenns aren't the cave people.
     
  8. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Ah, ok. Was wondering if they planned this switch at the start.

    The thing with the Thenn's is dumb. lowest common denominator type stuff that's unusual for GOT. Im wondering if they're going to give that storyline away to a more we'll known Wildling?

    Owell.

    TBH, this show needs to hurry along with the wildlings/wall story. There's an excellent story there and it feels so delayed... i think its kibd of hurting the pacing. Mance Rayder has been in.like, 2 episodes... And I really hope that Stannis's story picks up quick. He's an under valued and under utilized character.
     
  9. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Expect it to drag out all season. The "let's go after the mutineers in Craster's Keep" stuff is entirely invented just to pad events until episode 10, which is when I'm guessing Stannis the Mannis, First of His Name, the King Who Cared shows up to complete his redemption arc.

    It seems like they decided to split AFfC into two seasons. I'm hoping we see Doran Martell, Victarion and Euron Greyjoy, and Wyman Manderly.

    If they go through with the Karstark subplot then I'm guessing Alys marries Tormund in the show.
     
  10. I agree that I would like to see more of the white walkers but Im really digging the dragon mother building her army while the other houses struggle among themselves for control of the throne. Im hoping there is going to comed a oint when there is a 3-way war between them all.

    I am also really rooting for the dwarf to wiggle out of his latest predicament. Im hoing in the end its either him, one of the stark kids (including snow) or the mother of dragons who prevail and rule the kingdom.
     
  11. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Heavy duty spoiler discussion w/Desides below. Don't click.

    I agree they're dragging things the Wall story w/the Mutineers. And it's really hurting Stannis the most, IMO. He's just goofing off doing what we've already seen him do (burn people). Too redundant and a waste of time. He should have set sail at the onset of S4. Nevermind the whole screwup with Stannis not crediting Devos with his speech about showing him the right path, trying to win the Throne by saving his Kingdom rather than the flip side... But that's a topic for another day, I suppose.

    Anyway, the mutineer subplot could be interesting and have a nice payoff. The thing with Jon is, he has no reputation. In the books, when Jon is elected Lord Commander, there's a cool little political subplot w/split votes and Sam manipulating events. I really dug that part quite a lot. Excited to see it. As good as the political maneuvering was, Jon becoming LC felt a little rushed given that he hadn't accomplished much in way of reputation among the boys and higher ups. In fact, he hasn't really been around the wall very long at all and should, in some ways, be kind of unknown.

    Certainly, going undercover and defending the wall at the end was huge, but the undercover black ops mission didn't involve anyone but him. And Stannis has to be given tons of credit for defeating the wildlings. As much, if not more so than Jon, since his manpower saved the day. The Mutineer plot could be a good opportunity for Jon to lead and demonstrate his value to a larger group in a much more focused environment, with the big battle and duel w/Rayder being the cherry on top that makes him becoming LC, along with the politics, more realised and fleshed out. At the very least, there better be some kind of payoff w/this new storyline. Whether it's a cool sword fight(s), white walkers appearance, etc...



    That said, I'm worried at how this season is being structured more so than anything. I think the purple wedding should of been delayed. It happened to quickly w/out the books great buildup. That is the storyline to drag out, IMO, given how much more fun/impactful it would of made Joffrey's death. I suspect that TPTB wanted to give fans some Red Wedding justice asap, to keep them interested. Kind of like Nabo, who said he lost faith after the Lannister's Coup d'etat against Rob.

    This season should have lead strong with the Wall given the amount of time we've been waiting for Mance Rayder to launch the attack and all of the plots that need to be resolved. The big battle w/Rayder and co. shouldn't have been saved for episode 9 (which it obviously is). It should take place around episode 4-6, while episode 9 should have been the duel with Oberyn, with the season finale being Tyrion's revenge and subsequent escape to exile w/Vary's explaining things/manipulating his future... Instead, it looks like they went the other way to appease fans for the Red wedding. I think this season will still be great and we'll get great payoffs by the end, but it's not nearly as streamlined as it could be.
     
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  12. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Jon's qualification is that he's the son of a Stark. That means a lot. He's also been on the wall for three years by that point, and isn't too old, incompetent, or hated. He won the LC job because the other candidates had fatal flaws, not because he was inherently better or more popular.

    Season 3 was the Purple Wedding's buildup.

    I think Season 4 will still end with Tyrion's revenge and exile.
     
  13. UCFinfan86

    UCFinfan86 Season Ticket Holder

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    Question for the book readers. My wife wants the 5 book hardcover set for this series. I've been looking online and I see there are 2 different set of covers. One set that looks old school (Ex: A Game of Thrones is an all gray cover with blue lettering or A game of Thrones has a blue cover with a sword).

    Is there any difference between the 2 books or just the cover? The only thing she told me is she doesn't want the ones with the GoT characters on them.

    I am mainly asking because on ebay i found the 5 book set with the older looking covers for $90 and for the new covers it costs about $140.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Song-of-I...787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233948d4fb
     
  14. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Season 4's last shot better be Lady Stoneheart. Hopefully we'll get some mention of missing Frey's in Ramsay's or Arya's storylines.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I just want to say "thank you again" to all the book readers for being so good about spoiler tags. It is so very appreciated.
     
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  16. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    There's no difference, no. Same content, nothing changed between prints.

    I'd suggest the ebook versions, actually. Very convenient, especially on a Kindle or iPad Mini.

    I don't think we'll see Stoneheart this season, though I agree she needs to appear in episode 10. I think the last scene of the season will be Tyrion shooting Tywin and Shae and escaping.
     
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  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Rewatched this episode again. Pound for pound, this is darkest episode GoT has ever had. Which is one reason I suspect people may not have enjoyed it so much. But given the context, I think it works really well.

    After Joffrey died, the fans were elated. It was proof that this world has moral justice. However, this episode seems to have been designed specifically as a stark reminder to the audience about the realities of Westeros. Joffrey, GoT biggest 'bad' is dead, and it's not going to suddenly change the world. The gears of war/good/evil, will keep grinding away with or without the likes of Robb/Ned Stark and King Joffrey. Look at the major storylines... Every one of them starts out with some kind of positivity and then turns sour, very quickly.


    * Ayra/The Hound: In one scene, The Hound seems repentant, accepting an offer for honest pay for honest work. The next scene, The Hound is robbing the man of his silver and reminding Arya of how the world works, pointing out her entire family has been cruelly and immorally slaughtered despite their honor.

    * Sansa: Ser Dontos is trying to prop Sansa up, telling her she's stronger than she knows (Nice callback to when Ricken was told the same). At the very least, Sansa is escaping King's Landing and the Lannisters. This is the first good thing to happen to Sansa in a long time. Sure enough, all good things come to an end for Sansa. She watches Dontos get murdered, and listens to Littlefinger's diatribe, which may have been his most sinister to date. Littlefinger steps out of his shadows literally and figuratively, revealing his true nature.

    * Tyrion: Excited and happy to have a visitor and friend, who has key information about his trial, only to discover he is completely alone. Tyrion has resigned himself to some cruel fate, evidenced by ordering Podrick to abandon ship, once he finds out that Vary's won't speak for him, Bronn has been barred from the premises, all the while pondering his lost love Shae and wife Sansa. Tyrion also learns that his father controls his fate and is using this trial to play the Game of Thrones, rather than mounting a defense for him.

    * Gilly/Sam: Sam knows Gilly is in danger from men of the watch, most of whom are rapists. So he does right by her and sets out to get her situated. Only it turns out, The best he can do is stash her in a whore house, forced to cook, clean, babysit, with the possibility of having to become a whore herself. Her stock hasn't improved whatsoever, despite best intentions.

    * Cersei: Loving moment with Jaime and then begs Jaime to avenge their son by killing Tyrion. As per usual, she becomes a cruel, shallow, and manipulative *****.

    * Jaime: Loving moment with Cersei and then tries of Cersei's head ***** in charge act, quasi rapes her.

    * Tywin: Standing before his dead grandson and apparently mourning the loss... Soon, he's ridiculing Joffrey, with his grieving mother present, for the purposes of lecturing the new King. Generally giving zero ****s whatsoever.

    * Thenns: One minute there's a happy conversation about supper, and the next, there's an entirely different conversation about supper...

    In fact, the only really positive scene from the entire episode was Dany launching the barrels filled with broken slave collars, which came at the end of the episode. Almost symbolically to illustrate there's still hope.
     
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  18. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Oh, and Charles Dance continues to be amazing. Tywin speaks to characters with absolute authority, to the point of condescension. It's clockwork. Check out the scene w/Oberyn. Throughout the entire sequence, there's never an ounce of Tywinism in the manner in which he speaks to Oberyn. He's cordial, respectful, soft spoken, and dare I say, friendly? The scene was good in it of itself, but it was interesting to see Tywin step outside himself to get what he wants. True Machiavellian.


    And one changed I noticed from the books, which gives me a theory... *book spoilers and potential TV show spoilers* Don't click if you don't want to know.

    In the books, Bronn is offered a Lordship in exchange for not championing Tyrion. And he doesn't go to see Tyrion of his own free will, at first. Podrick has to beg him. In the show, it's Podrick who is offered a knightship in exchange for testifying against Tyrion. And Bronn is barred from seeing Tyrion, not of his own free will. I suspect the reason for this change is because Bronn will stay w/Tyrion long-term. Which would make a far better scenario than the cameo Bronn has in the books after this season.

    Also, it appears Jaime is going to take up Kevin Lannister's role from the books. In the books, it's Jaime who forces Vary's to free Tyrion. I suspect both Jaime and Bronn will get to Vary's, and when Jaime drops the hammer about Tysha, it's Bronn who ends up attacking him (on Tyrion's command), and then Bronn and Tyrion will be off to the races. And Bronn will present when ...it... happens.
     
  19. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    One other character I felt Tywin didn't condescend to...

    Arya Stark
     
  20. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Jaime will take over Kevan Lannister's role, I think they'll just bring back the actor for Kevan from seasons 1 and 2. The role is big enough and the Varys character development scene he shares with Kevan at the end of ADwD is important enough that I don't think they can substitute Jaime in, especially since Jaime is supposed to be elsewhere at the time.

    I don't see any changes to the Tyrion/Tywin/Shae stuff. No need, IMO.

    Bronn will be interesting. I wonder if he'll be given the Stokeworth lordship in the show, or if he'll just be kicked out and be forced to buy sellswords (as he does in the books) to defend himself from Cersei (as he does in the books). I'd imagine the latter, where they skip the Stokeworth plot entirely, Bronn goes on the run when Tyrion leaves, Cersei sends men after him, Bronn kills them and hires sellswords with the money he made from Tyrion. This way Bronn is in roughly the same position he is in the books, and can have whatever impact on the plotline he's supposed to have.

    I kind of see Bronn and his sellswords joining up with (fake) Aegon.

    True, but those scenes were also entirely invented by the TV series.
     
  21. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    Yeah I read the books. Not sure how that impacts my statement.
     
  22. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I'm hesitant to give out badass points as a result.
     
  23. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    Fair enough, but I do find it pretty much in character. I don't think there are many people in Westeros that Tywin respects. I think he recognized and empathized somewhat with Arya's coldly pragmatic nature.
     
  24. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Boy, they're really diverging from the source material now.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  26. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    That map contains very very mild spoilers for material the TV show hasn't arrived at yet.

    It's also out of date. GRRM released a guidebook last year with a map. You can see it in the iOS app.

    Note that the maps we're given are based on what Westeros knows of the world, so it isn't actually accurate to the globe of the planet it takes place on, just accurate to what map makers in Westeros are aware of. So things like the Red Waste, Qarth, etc may not be "right".
     
  27. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    [​IMG]

    and this dude

    [​IMG]


    There were 13 others (including Darth Maul, which HBO confirms as the Nights King). So, we know the White Walkers can necromance and change the nature of babies, somehow.
     
  28. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Wait... that's the Night's King?

    I feel like TWOW just got spoiled.
     
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  29. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I'm starting another thread.. the new one will be for readers of the book. This one, if you discuss the book here (or any differences therein), you'll be kicked in the ***.

    Also, PLEASE USE THE SPOILER TAGS IF HBO HAS CONFIRMED SOMETHING YET THE SHOW ITSELF HAS NOT REVEALED IT WITHIN AN EPISODE YET!!
     
  30. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Paul, it's not our fault HBO let the cat out of the bag. :lol:
     
  31. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Yeah but not all of us saw the cat.
     
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  32. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Clark made sure you did. :lol:

    It's a shame this is overshadowing Jaime's redemption arc. It's amazing how much we want to like a guy who pushed a kid out of a window.
     
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  33. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    It amazes me how much the characters have really developed from day one.

    Daenerys is becoming my new favorite character but there are plenty I like a lot.
     
  34. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I feel like there's still plenty of development to go, too. Some of it in the negative direction.
     
  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Sorry, I didn't think it was a "spoiler." HBO's episode description said it was him. If anything, it's simply a confirmation of who he is. Infact, if you're not a book reader, you don't even know who he is, even if you know who he is. It's probably a spoiler for book readers rather than viewers, since this episode was largely invented by the showrunners.

    That said, I'll go to the other thread. I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone.
     
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  36. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    wait till they persuade us to like the white walkers. :shifty: Disclaimer: this was speculative sarcasm. I have no knowledge of any future occurrence within the show or the books for that matter as I'm lazy and gave up reading them... :wink2:
     
  37. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    who else cheered when Hodor took out Locke? :yes:
     
  38. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
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  39. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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  40. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Ratings should be up after tonight as well.
     

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