Draft strategy depends on what kind of team we want to be.

Finrunner · Apr 25, 2014

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

No it isn't. I question his judgement all of the time. A lot of people do. This isn't a board where if you upset the wrong person no one will like you.

I would suggest bringing more than, "Why are scouts so high on him?" in the point of discussion. It seemed to me kind of confrontational.

This is a pretty good board. If you act respectful, people are generally respectful back, even if they don't agree with you. There are people like me who are just sarcastic jerks though.
Click to expand...

Only one or two, though... which mean you make up either 50% or 100% of the sarcastic jerks, Dupree!

ckparrothead · Apr 25, 2014

My opinion on Odell Beckham starts with what he CAN do. Odell Beckham has great running and cutting ability. He's balanced, he's quick, he can roll his hips on out-breaking routes and he can get out of his breaks on in-breaking routes.

If evaluators love him, this is why. He's just a very natural, balanced and skilled runner. Not to mention, pretty darn fast.

On top of that, Odell Beckham really displays soft and reliable hands. He's got good hand-eye coordination. He can making diving catches (there's one against Auburn on a roll-out over the middle that applies) and he even made one of the more incredible one-handed catches I've ever seen below.

But let's keep something in mind. The above skillset isn't as rare as you think. Everything I said above can and has been said about guys like Ted Ginn, Taylor Price, Clyde Gates, Donnie Avery, Darius Heyward-Bey, Anthony Gonzalez, Chad Jackson, etc.

The point is, it definitely takes more than this to be an impact NFL wide receiver. There's no guarantees that having a combination of great running skill and reliable hands makes you an impact NFL wide receiver. I mean there are guys in this very draft that you can absolutely say the same about, such as Bruce Ellington, Paul Richardson and Robert Herron. You don't commonly see these guys put on the same pedastal as Odell Beckham.

The question is just how great IS that running ability of Beckham's? His official time came in at about a 4.43 at the Combine. His unofficials were 4.40 on the 1st attempt and 4.31 on the 2nd attempt. What's the true time there? I couldn't tell you. I know that watching him on film I see guys like Jonathon Mincy of Auburn staying up with him deep. I see guys that have 4.5 speed keeping up with him deep pretty consistently if they've got a bit of cushion or they're disciplined in when they open up their hips. Suffice it to say, I don't think he's running like Mike Wallace, Darius Heyward-Bey or even Ted Ginn for that matter. He's fast. He's won't be among the fastest in the NFL. Pure speedwise he's more Santonio Holmes than Ted Ginn, to reach back to the Ohio State pair back in 2005.

What I'm getting at is a re-emphasis that he's got to have more than just running and catching ability to make it in the NFL. If you're Mike Wallace running in the 4.2's you can get away with making an impact because you can blow the top off defenses that were trying not to allow you to blow the top off them. If you're Odell Beckham, that didn't happen even in college, and it won't happen in the NFL.

What are the other core areas of a receiver's game aside from the running and catching ability? Without turning this into some sort of teaching lesson where everyone's got to evaluate players the same way, I would say that some of the major ones include run after catch ability, physicality and consistency. This isn't some "CK's five keys to being a receiver" or anything I'm just naming some important areas to look for traits.

In my opinion, Odell Beckham's run after catch ability is poor relative to his speed. He gets what the defense allows him to get. It's almost formulaic based on the inputs of his speed and the defender's placement at the point of the catch. He's not making guys miss. He's CONSISTENTLY brought down by arm tackles. He's not especially creative. I would compare his run after catch ability to Ted Ginn's, except he's not as fast.

That's a MAJOR area of evaluation, by the way.

The other major one is physicality and physical prowess, where lack of size and strength becomes a big issue. Again, I see poor signals. First off you go back to his run after catch and his consistently being brought down by arm tackles, and that's a sign of his lack of physicality. Watch him run routes against guys that are able to stay with him and be physical with him. Watch him lack the ability to FINISH plays in those situations. Consistently he shows the inability to finish strong, the inability to deal with physical coverage or finish catches that are physically contested. For every catch or two someone can show me from the Mississippi State game where he finished a physically contested catch, I can show you lots more where he clearly got less comfortable trying to finish catches because coverage was on his hip. There's a shy-away factor. He can get jammed at the line pretty good and has trouble getting into his route or really punching back.

Finally there's the consistency factors. Go back to the game by game production and you can see signs of issues with his consistency. But also look at the difference in how he's able to finish and operate in different scenarios with different coverages. He was not nearly as trusted or leaned upon on 3rd downs at LSU as Jarvis Landry. He loses his focus and his aggressiveness when coverage is in his hip pocket. He didn't come off as a reliable player at all at LSU.

Overall I find it difficult to assign a 1st round grade to this type of player. I think the consistency will never be there. I think there's too much of a chance that when corners get more physically impressive and less scared than the corners of UAB, Furman, Kent State and Mississippi State (the 4 games in which he notched 66% of his total production)...that he'll just dissipate like a fart in a high wind. I can't take that chance in the first round when there's such a clear and expected path of how he can become a marginal player at the next level.

13Machine8385 · Apr 25, 2014

More on Beckham. It's all opinions but there seems to be a lot to like and a good ft.

http://www.footballnation.com/content/2014-nfl-draft-scouts-eye-view-odell-beckham-jr-wr-lsu/29123/

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/4/21/5634802/odell-beckham-scouting-report

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014WR.php

http://www.fakepigskin.com/2014/04/23/odell-beckham-jr-rookie-pulse/

djphinfan · Apr 25, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

I hear ya. I'm new on here but have been reading his posts over the past few months and he knows his stuff. I realize that questioning his judgement is message board suicide but I like to undrestand why his view is so different from the majority.
Click to expand...

That's silly man, no one is saying it's message board suicide here to question anyone, that's not how this site works, quite insulting to infer that the board is scared to question someone's analysis..stick around long enough and you will think you shouldn't of said that.

13Machine8385 · Apr 25, 2014

djphinfan said:

That's silly man, no one is saying it's message board suicide here to question anyone, that's not how this site works, quite insulting to infer that the board is scared to question someone's analysis..stick around long enough and you will think you shouldn't of said that.
Click to expand...

Wow. It was somewhat tongue in cheek. (The new guy questioning the resident expert).

You really didn't get where I was coming from at all. That was taken way out of context. Would you not agree that it would be a tough order to go up against CK in a debate on draft prospects? That was all I meant. Did you see his reply? A brilliant and detailed evaluation of his review of Beckham's game tapes. How the heck do you compete with that?

My original statement stands.

13Machine8385 · Apr 25, 2014

ckparrothead said:

My opinion on Odell Beckham starts with what he CAN do. Odell Beckham has great running and cutting ability. He's balanced, he's quick, he can roll his hips on out-breaking routes and he can get out of his breaks on in-breaking routes.

If evaluators love him, this is why. He's just a very natural, balanced and skilled runner. Not to mention, pretty darn fast.

On top of that, Odell Beckham really displays soft and reliable hands. He's got good hand-eye coordination. He can making diving catches (there's one against Auburn on a roll-out over the middle that applies) and he even made one of the more incredible one-handed catches I've ever seen below.

But let's keep something in mind. The above skillset isn't as rare as you think. Everything I said above can and has been said about guys like Ted Ginn, Taylor Price, Clyde Gates, Donnie Avery, Darius Heyward-Bey, Anthony Gonzalez, Chad Jackson, etc.

The point is, it definitely takes more than this to be an impact NFL wide receiver. There's no guarantees that having a combination of great running skill and reliable hands makes you an impact NFL wide receiver. I mean there are guys in this very draft that you can absolutely say the same about, such as Bruce Ellington, Paul Richardson and Robert Herron. You don't commonly see these guys put on the same pedastal as Odell Beckham.

The question is just how great IS that running ability of Beckham's? His official time came in at about a 4.43 at the Combine. His unofficials were 4.40 on the 1st attempt and 4.31 on the 2nd attempt. What's the true time there? I couldn't tell you. I know that watching him on film I see guys like Jonathon Mincy of Auburn staying up with him deep. I see guys that have 4.5 speed keeping up with him deep pretty consistently if they've got a bit of cushion or they're disciplined in when they open up their hips. Suffice it to say, I don't think he's running like Mike Wallace, Darius Heyward-Bey or even Ted Ginn for that matter. He's fast. He's won't be among the fastest in the NFL. Pure speedwise he's more Santonio Holmes than Ted Ginn, to reach back to the Ohio State pair back in 2005.

What I'm getting at is a re-emphasis that he's got to have more than just running and catching ability to make it in the NFL. If you're Mike Wallace running in the 4.2's you can get away with making an impact because you can blow the top off defenses that were trying not to allow you to blow the top off them. If you're Odell Beckham, that didn't happen even in college, and it won't happen in the NFL.

What are the other core areas of a receiver's game aside from the running and catching ability? Without turning this into some sort of teaching lesson where everyone's got to evaluate players the same way, I would say that some of the major ones include run after catch ability, physicality and consistency. This isn't some "CK's five keys to being a receiver" or anything I'm just naming some important areas to look for traits.

In my opinion, Odell Beckham's run after catch ability is poor relative to his speed. He gets what the defense allows him to get. It's almost formulaic based on the inputs of his speed and the defender's placement at the point of the catch. He's not making guys miss. He's CONSISTENTLY brought down by arm tackles. He's not especially creative. I would compare his run after catch ability to Ted Ginn's, except he's not as fast.

That's a MAJOR area of evaluation, by the way.

The other major one is physicality and physical prowess, where lack of size and strength becomes a big issue. Again, I see poor signals. First off you go back to his run after catch and his consistently being brought down by arm tackles, and that's a sign of his lack of physicality. Watch him run routes against guys that are able to stay with him and be physical with him. Watch him lack the ability to FINISH plays in those situations. Consistently he shows the inability to finish strong, the inability to deal with physical coverage or finish catches that are physically contested. For every catch or two someone can show me from the Mississippi State game where he finished a physically contested catch, I can show you lots more where he clearly got less comfortable trying to finish catches because coverage was on his hip. There's a shy-away factor. He can get jammed at the line pretty good and has trouble getting into his route or really punching back.

Finally there's the consistency factors. Go back to the game by game production and you can see signs of issues with his consistency. But also look at the difference in how he's able to finish and operate in different scenarios with different coverages. He was not nearly as trusted or leaned upon on 3rd downs at LSU as Jarvis Landry. He loses his focus and his aggressiveness when coverage is in his hip pocket. He didn't come off as a reliable player at all at LSU.

Overall I find it difficult to assign a 1st round grade to this type of player. I think the consistency will never be there. I think there's too much of a chance that when corners get more physically impressive and less scared than the corners of UAB, Furman, Kent State and Mississippi State (the 4 games in which he notched 66% of his total production)...that he'll just dissipate like a fart in a high wind. I can't take that chance in the first round when there's such a clear and expected path of how he can become a marginal player at the next level.
Click to expand...

Nice evaluation. Thanks for sharing.

I can see your side of it. His strength needs to improve for sure. Is that something that he can fix?

If we draft him. I won't be upset at all. I still feel like we need that style of player on the roster. I would much rather it be Cooks though.

ToddPhin · Apr 26, 2014

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

Not all scouts are high on him or pretty much anyone. People are going to have different opinions. Some look at athleticism, some look at results.
Click to expand...

outside of Sammy Watkins, Beckham has the best overall hands and is the best bad-ball catcher this draft. His ability to do so is elite, and that translates extremely well in the NFL where the coverage is tighter and throws are on him quicker, especially as he's coming out of breaks on timing routes.

Let's look at some pertinent numbers to this discussion:

Only 7% of Beckham's receptions came on screens.
By comparison, Cooks saw 27%, Robinson 28%, Watkins 57%, Evans 17%, Lee 19%.

Only 12% of Beckham's receptions fell in the 1-5 yard range.
By comparison, Cooks saw 25%, Robinson 16%, Watkins 13%, Evans 24%, Lee 29%.

Combined, that's a mere 19% for Beckham compared to Cooks 52%, Robinson 44%, Watkins 70%, Evans 41%, Lee 48%. Therefore if we wanna look for Beckham's lost yards and touchdowns that CK mentioned, that's where they're at. I'm sure we could do the math to figure out just how many yards and TDs Beckham would've had if afforded as many easy short passes as the others in this group. It'd be a significant number that's for sure. It's also worth noting LSU ran 200 more times than they passed, as well as ran for 14 more TDs than they passed. Meanwhile, Brandin Cook's Oregon State offense threw the ball 270 more times than they ran, and they passed for 23 more TDs than they ran. Oregon St attempted 300 more passes than LSU.

Conversely, a whopping 62% of Beckham's receptions were on throws of 11+ yards.
By comparison, Robinson saw 31%, Cooks 30%, Matthews 24%, Watkins 20%, Evans 40%, Lee 25%, Benjamin 50%.
Are you kidding me, Beckham hauled in a greater percentage of downfield throws than 6'5 240 Benjamin and 6'5 230 Evans?

Even though Beckham caught the ball downfield at twice the rate of these other receivers, his drop rate was only 6.5%. And for a YAC comparison, when you eliminate screens from Allen Robinson's game, his YAC drops from 7.56 to 4.2. Not only does this highlight what I mentioned in the Draft Forum about his hands and catch-radius issues, but it's lower than Beckham's 5.6 YAC. Because only 6.9% of Beckham's receptions came on screens, I doubt his YAC was affected very much, meaning- his YAC is probably on par with or better than Robinson's.

Now, considering Lazor utilizes a greater degree of vertical concepts, Beckham's numbers stand out among the rest in this regard as we can see above. However, he's clearly not a 1 trick pony, as he has the agility, hands, and route running potential to impact at every level.

ToddPhin · Apr 26, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

Nice evaluation. Thanks for sharing.

I can see your side of it. His strength needs to improve for sure. Is that something that he can fix?

If we draft him. I won't be upset at all. I still feel like we need that style of player on the roster. I would much rather it be Cooks though.
Click to expand...

Bottom line is Beckham is a player with outstanding hands [and massive hands at that at 10 inches], a large catch radius [thanks to his ability to pluck everything in sight paired with long 32 3/4 inch arms], and all the requisite natural ability needed to impact at all 3 WR positions and at every level of the field which boosts his stock tremendously considering versatility is huge in the NFL, making Beckham the closest thing we've seen to Victor Cruz. He's a little behind developmentally thanks to LSU's run first offense, but give him a year to settle in and work on his trade with an NFL coach and the sky is the limit. The similar ability Kendall Wright is doing quite well and has earned a place as Tennessee's #1 WR, and I'd grade Beckham slightly ahead of Wright.

djphinfan · Apr 26, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

Wow. It was somewhat tongue in cheek. (The new guy questioning the resident expert).

You really didn't get where I was coming from at all. That was taken way out of context. Would you not agree that it would be a tough order to go up against CK in a debate on draft prospects? That was all I meant. Did you see his reply? A brilliant and detailed evaluation of his review of Beckham's game tapes. How the heck do you compete with that?

My original statement stands.
Click to expand...

I thought you were being a dick, my bad.

ToddPhin · Apr 26, 2014

GMJohnson said:

Are you seriously comparing Beckham to an All-Pro? An All-Pro that came to NY as an UDFA I might add.

I concede that an OT can be found later, just like a WR can be found later. Wallace in the 3rd, Hartline 4th, Matthews 6th, Keenan Allen had 1st round talent and went in the 3rd. There will be WRs available later in the draft...
Click to expand...

Yes, I am comparing him to an All Pro. That's why Beckham is a top 20 pick who could conceivably sneak into the top 12, and when I watch them on tape I feel they're virtual clones. Cruz's draft status is irrelevant considering it's a pipe dream for us to think they'll pluck another Victor Cruz from undrafted free agency. Respectfully, what does 4th round Hartline and 6th round Matthews have to do with Lazor's need for a dynamic, impact receiver to plug into his offense? If a team wants a guy with Cruz-like potential and doesn't want their odds to be a major crapshoot, then they invest the pick in it. Go over the past 5 years of 1st & 2nd round receivers and tell me difference between them, notably- the success rate of becoming an impact receiver.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WR[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st round[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd round[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tavon Austin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Justin Hunter[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cordarrelle Patterson[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Robert Woods[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]DeAndre Hopkins[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Aaron Dobson[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Justin Blackmon[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Brian Quick[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Michael Floyd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Stephen Hill[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Kendall Wright[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Alshon Jeffery[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]AJ Jenkins[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ryan Broyles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Rueben Randle[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]AJ Green[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Titus Young[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Julio Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Torrey Smith[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jon Baldwin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Greg Little[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Randall Cobb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Demaryius Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dexter McCluster[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dez Bryant[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Arellius Benn[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Golden Tate[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]DHB[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Brian Robiskie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Michael Crabtree[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Mohamad Massaquoi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jeremy Maclin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Percy Harvin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hakeem Nicks[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Kenny Britt[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]# players[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]catches[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2971[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1465[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40,821[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20,665[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]TDs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]284[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]133[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

On top of the drastic statistical variance between first and second rounders, a large chunk of the 2nd round stats are "empty" stats due to the receiver not living up to the bill as an NFL starter like Massaquoi, Robiskie, Benn, Young, and McCluster [combined 5,582 yards, 31 TD]. The majority of the 2nd rounders neither became a positional solution to their offense nor seem to be one, thus requiring their respective teams to throw additional resources at the position to make up for their shortcomings, especially if they want an impact receiver. Meanwhile, the 1st rounders were slap full of impact players, arguably 15 of them when healthy. When considering Alshon Jeffery should've never fallen to the 2nd round, we're left with Torrey Smith & Randall Cobb as the sparse, visible second round impact receivers of the past 5 years.

It's ironic you bring up Philly bc they took a RT fourth overall last year. They just released their best WR as well.
Click to expand...

It's not ironic at all. Philly has successful 1st rounder Jeremy Maclin coming back who fits that offense, and Jackson's release had nothing to do with their perceived value of the position. It was easy for Philly to take the best player available [RT] when their offense already featured personnel that well fit Kelly's scheme/philosophy and after spending free agency almost exclusively on defense.

RT is the position where we have to find a starter and have him ready to play a major role
Click to expand...

... which is why it makes sense to grab the guy with the most experience at RT and who should be ready to contribute from Day 1 because of it [JaWuan James] rather than converting a left tackle who might experience some woes during his adjustment like our last converted left tackle Martin.

WR is a spot where we have 4 proven guys. And we all know how Philbin and his staff tend to treat rookies, especially at the skill positions. I think you're severely over thinking on this one.
Click to expand...

??? I don't see that at all. We have one proven guy, Wallace, in an offense like Lazor's that incorporates more vertical concepts and has a much greater role for playmakers. Hartline is a square peg in a round hole in this offense. Rishard Matthews is a nice compliment and represents good value for his draft status, but he's FAR from "proven" and is likely not viewed as a solution opposite Wallace. If Hartline isn't viewed as a long term solution, then Matthews is certainly not a reason to ignore a 1st round receiver. Same goes for Gibson who isn't the dynamic type of player we'd want in Lazor's offense. Take away Wallace and we're back to having one of the NFL's worst receiving corps and with poor speed & minimal playmaking ability to boot.

13Machine8385 · Apr 26, 2014

ckparrothead said:

Click to expand...

CK - This was a great clip that you posted. I still can't believe that you don't think this player would be a nice first pick. This was a wild catch. It shows a skill set that you don't normally see in a smaller quick WR. The long arms really stand out.

I can't look away.

13Machine8385 · Apr 26, 2014

phinsational said:

??? I don't see that at all. We have one proven guy, Wallace, in an offense like Lazor's that incorporates more vertical concepts and has a much greater role for playmakers. Hartline is a square peg in a round hole in this offense. Rishard Matthews is a nice compliment and represents good value for his draft status, but he's FAR from "proven" and is likely not viewed as a solution opposite Wallace. If Hartline isn't viewed as a long term solution, then Matthews is certainly not a reason to ignore a 1st round receiver. Same goes for Gibson who isn't the dynamic type of player we'd want in Lazor's offense. Take away Wallace and we're back to having one of the NFL's worst receiving corps and with poor speed & minimal playmaking ability to boot.
Click to expand...

So true. Our WR situation is not ideal right now. It is more of a need than most think.

GMJohnson · Apr 26, 2014

phinsational said:

Yes, I am comparing him to an All Pro. That's why Beckham is a top 20 pick who could conceivably sneak into the top 12, and when I watch them on tape I feel they're virtual clones. Cruz's draft status is irrelevant considering it's a pipe dream for us to think they'll pluck another Victor Cruz from undrafted free agency. Respectfully, what does 4th round Hartline and 6th round Matthews have to do with Lazor's need for a dynamic, impact receiver to plug into his offense? If a team wants a guy with Cruz-like potential and doesn't want their odds to be a major crapshoot, then they invest the pick in it. Go over the past 5 years of 1st & 2nd round receivers and tell me difference between them, notably- the success rate of becoming an impact receiver.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]WR[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1st round[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2nd round[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Tavon Austin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Justin Hunter[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cordarrelle Patterson[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Robert Woods[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]DeAndre Hopkins[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Aaron Dobson[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Justin Blackmon[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Brian Quick[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Michael Floyd[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Stephen Hill[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Kendall Wright[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Alshon Jeffery[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]AJ Jenkins[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ryan Broyles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Rueben Randle[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]AJ Green[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Titus Young[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Julio Jones[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Torrey Smith[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jon Baldwin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Greg Little[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Randall Cobb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Demaryius Thomas[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dexter McCluster[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dez Bryant[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Arellius Benn[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Golden Tate[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]DHB[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Brian Robiskie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Michael Crabtree[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Mohamad Massaquoi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Jeremy Maclin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Percy Harvin[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Hakeem Nicks[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Kenny Britt[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]o[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]# players[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]catches[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2971[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1465[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40,821[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20,665[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]TDs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]284[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]133[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

On top of the drastic statistical variance between first and second rounders, a large chunk of the 2nd round stats are "empty" stats due to the receiver not living up to the bill as an NFL starter like Massaquoi, Robiskie, Benn, Young, and McCluster [combined 5,582 yards, 31 TD]. The majority of the 2nd rounders neither became a positional solution to their offense nor seem to be one, thus requiring their respective teams to throw additional resources at the position to make up for their shortcomings, especially if they want an impact receiver. Meanwhile, the 1st rounders were slap full of impact players, arguably 15 of them when healthy. When considering Alshon Jeffery should've never fallen to the 2nd round, we're left with Torrey Smith & Randall Cobb as the sparse, visible second round impact receivers of the past 5 years.

It's not ironic at all. Philly has successful 1st rounder Jeremy Maclin coming back who fits that offense, and Jackson's release had nothing to do with their perceived value of the position. It was easy for Philly to take the best player available [RT] when their offense already featured personnel that well fit Kelly's scheme/philosophy and after spending free agency almost exclusively on defense.

... which is why it makes sense to grab the guy with the most experience at RT and who should be ready to contribute from Day 1 because of it [JaWuan James] rather than converting a left tackle who might experience some woes during his adjustment like our last converted left tackle Martin.

??? I don't see that at all. We have one proven guy, Wallace, in an offense like Lazor's that incorporates more vertical concepts and has a much greater role for playmakers. Hartline is a square peg in a round hole in this offense. Rishard Matthews is a nice compliment and represents good value for his draft status, but he's FAR from "proven" and is likely not viewed as a solution opposite Wallace. If Hartline isn't viewed as a long term solution, then Matthews is certainly not a reason to ignore a 1st round receiver. Same goes for Gibson who isn't the dynamic type of player we'd want in Lazor's offense. Take away Wallace and we're back to having one of the NFL's worst receiving corps and with poor speed & minimal playmaking ability to boot.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting your info on "Lazor's offense"? Are you referencing Kelly's, a mix of Kelly and Philbin?

GMJohnson · Apr 26, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

So true. Our WR situation is not ideal right now. It is more of a need than most think.
Click to expand...

A better WR corps would be a welcome sight, just not at the expense of the OL. That's crazy, and it speaks to a certain level of amnesia IMO.

We we have one of the premier big play WRs on the league, a couple of solid possession guys, a utility guy in Clay and several backs who can pose a threat as check down targets. What's missing is a reliable run game to keep defenses honest and consistent pass pro to allow more concepts in the pass game.

Fin D · Apr 26, 2014

GMJohnson said:

A better WR corps would be a welcome sight, just not at the expense of the OL. That's crazy, and it speaks to a certain level of amnesia IMO.

We we have one of the premier big play WRs on the league, a couple of solid possession guys, a utility guy in Clay and several backs who can pose a threat as check down targets. What's missing is a reliable run game to keep defenses honest and consistent pass pro to allow more concepts in the pass game.
Click to expand...

I think there's also a level of amnesia going on if we pretend we don't need a YAC guy in the passing game. Again, there will be first round talent on the OL available in the 2nd round this year, the same cannot be said for WR.

LBsFinest · Apr 26, 2014

Fin D said:

I think there's also a level of amnesia going on if we pretend we don't need a YAC guy in the passing game. Again, there will be first round talent on the OL available in the 2nd round this year, the same cannot be said for WR.
Click to expand...

Looks like you've finally come around, last offseason you said this same receiving group was fine when it came to YAC.

Fin D · Apr 26, 2014

LBsFinest said:

Looks like you've finally come around, last offseason you said this same receiving group was fine when it came to YAC.
Click to expand...

I don't remember saying that. I know the year before, YAC and TDs were my biggest gripe with the receiving corps. In fact, me and phinsational had huge battles with shouright about those things.

Fin-Omenal · Apr 26, 2014

Fin D said:

I don't remember saying that. I know the year before, YAC and TDs were my biggest gripe with the receiving corps. In fact, me and phinsational had huge battles with shouright about those things.
Click to expand...

How is your brother Shou anyways?

Conuficus · Apr 26, 2014

Fin D said:

I don't remember saying that. I know the year before, YAC and TDs were my biggest gripe with the receiving corps. In fact, me and phinsational had huge battles with shouright about those things.
Click to expand...

You could argue with Shouright about whether breathing was required to remain alive. Or that the earth is the 3rd planet from the Sun.

Fin-Omenal · Apr 26, 2014

Conuficus said:

You could argue with Shouright about whether breathing was required to remain alive. Or that the earth is the 3rd planet from the Sun.
Click to expand...

Yep. Comedy gold

ckparrothead · Apr 26, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

CK - This was a great clip that you posted. I still can't believe that you don't think this player would be a nice first pick. This was a wild catch. It shows a skill set that you don't normally see in a smaller quick WR. The long arms really stand out.

I can't look away.
Click to expand...

You're being distracted by a neat bauble, IMO. The problem with that catch is it doesn't translate out on the routes when he's covered in tight man and needs to finish a play. He shies away.

GMJohnson · Apr 26, 2014

Fin D said:

I think there's also a level of amnesia going on if we pretend we don't need a YAC guy in the passing game. Again, there will be first round talent on the OL available in the 2nd round this year, the same cannot be said for WR.
Click to expand...

Again, you're putting depth at WR ahead of starters for the OL, OT especially, and it's very fan-ish, WADR.

This staff doesn't like to play rookies for one. Regardless of round, anyone not named Sammy Watkins isn't going to crack the starting lineup barring injury. It makes more sense to take a guy like Robinson, Lee etc in the 2nd and let him develop in a low pressure environment.

OT is different. Whoever we take will have to be ready for NE in week 1 and Mario Williams in week 2. You say there's all this 1st round talent and you may be right, but understand that could mean the OTs are better or it could mean the other positions are just weaker. In any case those are consensus rankings that aren't specific to any team and we are discussing what's best for a specific team.

If Martin or Moses is there and we think he can do the job, no screwing around99, make the pick. Now if we don't think they can do the job then go a different route. Even then I don't think WR should be the priority. CK mentioned Kyle Fuller, I like the guy from Michigan St, and CB is much more important position than WR.

13Machine8385 · Apr 27, 2014

GMJohnson said:

Again, you're putting depth at WR ahead of starters for the OL, OT especially, and it's very fan-ish, WADR.

This staff doesn't like to play rookies for one. Regardless of round, anyone not named Sammy Watkins isn't going to crack the starting lineup barring injury. It makes more sense to take a guy like Robinson, Lee etc in the 2nd and let him develop in a low pressure environment.

OT is different. Whoever we take will have to be ready for NE in week 1 and Mario Williams in week 2. You say there's all this 1st round talent and you may be right, but understand that could mean the OTs are better or it could mean the other positions are just weaker. In any case those are consensus rankings that aren't specific to any team and we are discussing what's best for a specific team.

If Martin or Moses is there and we think he can do the job, no screwing around99, make the pick. Now if we don't think they can do the job then go a different route. Even then I don't think WR should be the priority. CK mentioned Kyle Fuller, I like the guy from Michigan St, and CB is much more important position than WR.
Click to expand...

This is really about conceptual thinking. There are a number of ways that I look at this draft and this team and know that we absolutely need another 2 or 3 playmakers on the offense. We need good ones. Not 6-7 rounders that we are scooping up for value picks.

Here is why I feel this way. I think we need to look at playoff and superbowl teams of the past and present and ask ourselves what made them great?
Usually its a team with a great QB and multiple weapons. Whenever it's a lesser offense it's a team with an absolute killer defense.

What are the best teams that you can think of over the past 30 years? What do most of them have in common? Most of them score a lot of points. Last year we were in the bottom 25% in points scored. For many years now the Dolphins have had problems scoring points. This is not because of the offensive line. It's just not. It's because we have had offensive players of mediocre standard for a long time. We need. players of exceptional skills on offense. Hartline, Gibson, and Matthews are not that type of player. Wallace is but he is not a complete WR. He's a great #2 and we need his skill set.

We need a quick underneath guy that has great YAC skills. We also need a red zone threat. A WR or TE with size that catches ball in tight spaces. We need these now. If our OL is totally fixed and we keep what we have at WR then we will still struggle to score.

The reason why we need to take these players early is because if we don't, another team will. Every year a decent pool of skill players gets drafted and we don't take hardly any of them. The rest of the league is improving around us. We need to have players of quality that other teams will fear and have to gameplan for.

Hartline is coming off of a torn PCL. He scored 1 touchdown anyway. Gibson is coming off of a torn patella tendon. There is no guarantee that these guys will even be back to their 2013 form. If not and we didn't draft any good WRs......then what? We'll be saying "same old Dolphins"

We need to keep giving Tannehill more weapons. We need to have an offense that is fast paced and has quick strike plays. Lazor should help with that. Our 2 minute offense has been a joke for years. Worst I've seen. Let's have some weapons. Some options. Some players of different skill sets that come together as a unit that will be difficult to defend in all situations.

Building the offensive line with the first pick is the wrong way to go. We have some good foundation players in the 2 most important OL spots. Now lets fill it in with some mid round guys and coach them up to be a solid unit. Offensive lines are more the sum of their parts and the league has some pretty good units with guys that were drafted mid to late rounds. You could make a case for a stud defender and I could agree with that pick but absolutely not OL and preferably a WR.

Dol-Fan Dupree · Apr 27, 2014

GMJohnson said:

OT is different. Whoever we take will have to be ready for NE in week 1 and Mario Williams in week 2. .
Click to expand...

I would rather sign Bryant McKennie in that case. He is going to be better than any rookie tackle week 1 and week 2.

ToddPhin · Apr 27, 2014

GMJohnson said:

A better WR corps would be a welcome sight, just not at the expense of the OL. That's crazy, and it speaks to a certain level of amnesia IMO.

We we have one of the premier big play WRs on the league, a couple of solid possession guys, a utility guy in Clay and several backs who can pose a threat as check down targets. What's missing is a reliable run game to keep defenses honest and consistent pass pro to allow more concepts in the pass game.
Click to expand...

how does taking a 1st round WR come at the expense of the Oline when right tackle can be addressed quite well in the 2nd round? We already have 1st rounders at LT and C, so I don't understand the notion that anything less than a 1st rounder at RT is deemed unsatisfactory to the point of negligence.

Fin D · Apr 27, 2014

GMJohnson said:

Again, you're putting depth at WR ahead of starters for the OL, OT especially, and it's very fan-ish, WADR.

This staff doesn't like to play rookies for one. Regardless of round, anyone not named Sammy Watkins isn't going to crack the starting lineup barring injury. It makes more sense to take a guy like Robinson, Lee etc in the 2nd and let him develop in a low pressure environment.

OT is different. Whoever we take will have to be ready for NE in week 1 and Mario Williams in week 2. You say there's all this 1st round talent and you may be right, but understand that could mean the OTs are better or it could mean the other positions are just weaker. In any case those are consensus rankings that aren't specific to any team and we are discussing what's best for a specific team.

If Martin or Moses is there and we think he can do the job, no screwing around99, make the pick. Now if we don't think they can do the job then go a different route. Even then I don't think WR should be the priority. CK mentioned Kyle Fuller, I like the guy from Michigan St, and CB is much more important position than WR.
Click to expand...

I'm not putting WR "depth" ahead of oline. I'm saying the talent level of oline in this draft is so deep you can grab a solid starter in the 2nd. I genuinely feel like you're just not accepting this point. Any 2nd rd RT we take will be light years better than what we had.

The staff doesn't have an aversion to playing rookies. They didn't play many of them last year, sure, but DJ, Taylor, Davis, Thomas were all injured and either missed time or didn't have a set position. They will play who performs the best.

Also, if we get Zach Martin, he's NEVER played tackle. How are you more confident in a person whose never played the position, then a guy like JuWaun or Turner who excelled at the position but may drop to the second?

I'm normally with you when it comes to not screwing around in the draft and just taking the guy at the spot. However, this draft is different when it comes to oline talent. There's a luxury in this draft not normally afforded, and that's being sure there's first round talent at a position of need well into the 2nd (possibly even the 3rd). This almost never happens. I know people always label a draft as being an "X position" deep draft, but this one is abnormally deep at oline.

ToddPhin · Apr 27, 2014

GMJohnson said:

Where are you getting your info on "Lazor's offense"? Are you referencing Kelly's, a mix of Kelly and Philbin?
Click to expand...

I'm getting it from Mike Wallace talking about it excitedly:

Wallace means what he says. He was fine missing the first day of the spring sessions Monday to be with his family, instead choosing to show up for Day 2. What he found in his return to Miami: A whole new offense, one that he believes is better suited to his strengths. “My style: Big-play offense,” Wallace said, referring to first-year coordinator Bill Lazor’s new system. “I see Ryan’s excited about it. He’s called me about eight, nine times."
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/23/4074243/miami-dolphins-wr-mike-wallace.html
Click to expand...

I'm also getting it from the fact Lazor is our new OC, meaning- it is indeed "his" offense with his name and reputation on the line. Hence I deduce Lazor would be a nitwit to not bring elements of Philly's successful offense with him. Plus, let's not forget who our owner is and the type of high octane offense he covets. Ross is eagerly licking his chops in anticipation of his offense becoming the Eagles of the AFC.

So let's look at a few specific, integral aspects of Philly's offense as they apply to Wallace's statement.

led NFL in 20+ yard completions [80], most in the league by a wide margin since the 2001 Greatest Show on Turf Rams had 82.

led NFL in 40+ yard completions [18], most since 2009.

led NFL in YAC by a wide margin with 7.04. Highest since at least 1991 when SportingCharts.com started keeping track.

Even if Tannehill steps up the downfield game on his end, Miami ain't coming close to duplicating Philly's eye-popping numbers with Hartline, Gibson, Matthews, Binns, and Damien Williams. We also don't have a LeSean McCoy, nor a Zach Ertz. Before you get all Charles Clay on me, Ertz is a more vertically oriented TE who can threaten the seam and go over defenders. 42% of Ertz's receptions came on passes beyond 10 yards compared to Clay's 14%, and the shorter Clay saw just 51% of his receptions between the hashmarks compared to Ertz's 64%. So I'd say bolstering Lazor's playmaking personnel is a major need, and we're likely not gonna fill all 3 spots in the draft so we should simply be grabbing one from whichever position we can get our hands on first to at least get the ball rolling, and that just so happens to be receiver with Beckham, Cooks, or Lee [hope not] in round 1, followed next by a trade down for Seferian-Jenkins.

Heck, here's how the chart breaks down with whom Miami has met with that I've gathered so far [obviously a name doesn't have to be here for Hickey to draft him]:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Quarterback
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Zach Mettenberg
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Aaron Murray
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Logan Thomas
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Brock Jenson
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Stephen Morris
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Receiver
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Odell Beckham
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Donte Moncrief
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Robert Herron
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Jonathan Aiken
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Brandin Cooks
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Kelvin Benjamin
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Jerry Harris
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Marqise Lee
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Martavis Bryant[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Javonte Herndon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Allen Hurns
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Erik Lora
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Ivan McCartney
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Running Back
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Carlos Hyde
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Terrance West
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Dri Archer
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
James White
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Ray Agnew [FB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Tre Mason
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Devonta Freeman[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Maurice Hagens [FB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Nikita Whitlock [FB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Tight End
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Seferian-Jenkins
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Mike McLafferty
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Asante Cleveland
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Junior Delpe
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
O Tackle
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
JaWuan James
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Michael Schofield[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Cornelius Lucas
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Garrett Scott
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Joel Bitonia
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Seantrel Henderson
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Ulrick John
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Billy Turner
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Duverney-Tardif
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Kevin Pamphile
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Erle Ladson
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Luke Lucas
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Jarrod Pughsley
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Guard/C
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
John Halapio
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Spencer Long
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Kadeem Edwards
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Brandon Linder
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Antwan Lowery
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Jared Wheeler
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
D Tackle
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Caraun Reid[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Ken Bishop
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Isame Faciane
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Greg Hickman
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Curtis Porter
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Justin Renfrow
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
D End
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Zach Moore
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Terrence Fede
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Kerry Wynn
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Linebacker
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Carl Bradford [ILB/SAM]
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Marquis Flowers [OLB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Desmond Bozeman [OLB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Rodney Lamar [OLB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Corner
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Phillip Gaines
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Shaq Richardson
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Brandon Dixon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Marcus Roberson
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Walt Aikens
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Keon Lyn
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Keith Reaser
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Sammy Seamster
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
* All the corners are big and can move & jump for the most part
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Safety
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
1st round
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
2nd/3rd
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
3rd/4th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
4th/5th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
6th/7th
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
7th/FA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
Eric Pinkins
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
George Callender
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
*Hickey clearly conducted his due diligence with local UM, FIU, and UCF prospects.

As you can see, WR is a priority, and since there's nothing after Robert Herron but UDFA's, I'd say Hickey isn't f***ing around. And because there isn't anything after Herron, it would appear he's the fallback option should Hickey's 1st & 2nd round targets be unavailable. At tackle however there's a few later round guys, which could mean Hickey is either targeting 2 tackles, one early and one late, or he's less concerned about getting a tackle than receiver in the first few rounds. You can also see Hickey isn't looking at drafting a TE in general, however he is looking at Seferian-Jenkins, which means his specific skill set and talent level could very well be a priority. Hickey looks to be drafting a RB in rounds 3-5, a guard in rounds 4-6 [which could include Brandon Thomas whom we had to cancel a visit with], and either a CB or QB in rounds 4-5 if the value is there. The 2nd round looks to be RT, WR, and Seferian-Jenkins, with fall back options of Carlos Hyde, Phillip Gaines, Marcus Roberson, and Carl Bradford. I'd be happy with any of these but Bradford who I'm undecided on.

TooGoodForDez · Apr 27, 2014

No McCullers. That is very disappointing.

finfansince72 · Apr 27, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

This is really about conceptual thinking. There are a number of ways that I look at this draft and this team and know that we absolutely need another 2 or 3 playmakers on the offense. We need good ones. Not 6-7 rounders that we are scooping up for value picks.

Here is why I feel this way. I think we need to look at playoff and superbowl teams of the past and present and ask ourselves what made them great?
Usually its a team with a great QB and multiple weapons. Whenever it's a lesser offense it's a team with an absolute killer defense.

What are the best teams that you can think of over the past 30 years? What do most of them have in common? Most of them score a lot of points. Last year we were in the bottom 25% in points scored. For many years now the Dolphins have had problems scoring points. This is not because of the offensive line. It's just not. It's because we have had offensive players of mediocre standard for a long time. We need. players of exceptional skills on offense. Hartline, Gibson, and Matthews are not that type of player. Wallace is but he is not a complete WR. He's a great #2 and we need his skill set.

We need a quick underneath guy that has great YAC skills. We also need a red zone threat. A WR or TE with size that catches ball in tight spaces. We need these now. If our OL is totally fixed and we keep what we have at WR then we will still struggle to score.

The reason why we need to take these players early is because if we don't, another team will. Every year a decent pool of skill players gets drafted and we don't take hardly any of them. The rest of the league is improving around us. We need to have players of quality that other teams will fear and have to gameplan for.

Hartline is coming off of a torn PCL. He scored 1 touchdown anyway. Gibson is coming off of a torn patella tendon. There is no guarantee that these guys will even be back to their 2013 form. If not and we didn't draft any good WRs......then what? We'll be saying "same old Dolphins"

We need to keep giving Tannehill more weapons. We need to have an offense that is fast paced and has quick strike plays. Lazor should help with that. Our 2 minute offense has been a joke for years. Worst I've seen. Let's have some weapons. Some options. Some players of different skill sets that come together as a unit that will be difficult to defend in all situations.

Building the offensive line with the first pick is the wrong way to go. We have some good foundation players in the 2 most important OL spots. Now lets fill it in with some mid round guys and coach them up to be a solid unit. Offensive lines are more the sum of their parts and the league has some pretty good units with guys that were drafted mid to late rounds. You could make a case for a stud defender and I could agree with that pick but absolutely not OL and preferably a WR.
Click to expand...

You can run the ball in the NFL too...

13Machine8385 · Apr 27, 2014

finfansince72 said:

You can run the ball in the NFL too...
Click to expand...

More playmakers will open things up for the running game. It's a pass first league now, but I wouldn't mind getting another RB to upgrade that position also.

RickyBobby · Apr 27, 2014

Sign mckinnie.

Draft OG and OT in 3rd and 4th

And address LB in 1st or 2nd.

Free pick

GMJohnson · Apr 27, 2014

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

I would rather sign Bryant McKennie in that case. He is going to be better than any rookie tackle week 1 and week 2.
Click to expand...

We already had McKinnie under contract for 2014 and we voided the deal before the 2013 season was over. I seriously doubt there's any interest in bringing him back.

Dol-Fan Dupree · Apr 27, 2014

GMJohnson said:

We already had McKinnie under contract for 2014 and we voided the deal before the 2013 season was over. I seriously doubt there's any interest in bringing him back.
Click to expand...

I think there is interest depending on how the draft plays out.

77FinFan · Apr 27, 2014

Very nice work Phinsational.

Wow, he has looked at a lot of RB's. Not too many TE's. Anyone know if we have reached our limit?

finfansince72 · Apr 27, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

More playmakers will open things up for the running game. It's a pass first league now, but I wouldn't mind getting another RB to upgrade that position also.
Click to expand...

If the draft works out that there are like 5 tackles taken before we pick then we are going to be in a good positon for a playmaker to fall to us but if one of the top 4 or 5 tackles is there I would think thats what who we are going to take. Every team could use more playmakers and we are certainly one of them but our line kept us out of the playoffs last year, not another WR.

77FinFan · Apr 27, 2014

finfansince72 said:

If the draft works out that there are like 5 tackles taken before we pick then we are going to be in a good positon for a playmaker to fall to us but if one of the top 4 or 5 tackles is there I would think thats what who we are going to take. Every team could use more playmakers and we are certainly one of them but our line kept us out of the playoffs last year, not another WR.
Click to expand...

I think the top 3 tackles are better than those that follow. I would love one of those, be fine w/ others depending on where we get them.

13Machine8385 · Apr 27, 2014

finfansince72 said:

If the draft works out that there are like 5 tackles taken before we pick then we are going to be in a good positon for a playmaker to fall to us but if one of the top 4 or 5 tackles is there I would think thats what who we are going to take. Every team could use more playmakers and we are certainly one of them but our line kept us out of the playoffs last year, not another WR.
Click to expand...

That is the official stance of many. I really don't agree. We lost for more reasons than our OL play. There is a much bigger picture to look at other than just last season. This team has really struggled offensively for a long time. What we have always lacked is the ability to attack a defense in multiple ways. The best teams in the league have been able to do this. It's a blueprint that our recent past regimes were unable to duplicate.

finfansince72 · Apr 27, 2014

13Machine8385 said:

That is the official stance of many. I really don't agree. We lost for more reasons than our OL play. There is a much bigger picture to look at other than just last season. This team has really struggled offensively for a long time. What we have always lacked is the ability to attack a defense in multiple ways. The best teams in the league have been able to do this. It's a blueprint that our recent past regimes were unable to duplicate.
Click to expand...

I think most of our long time struggles were due to the Qb position, I think we need some more playmakers but I do think we are a playoff team with an improved line, thats kind of the point. If we improve the running game and oline the passing game will improve too.

GMJohnson · Apr 27, 2014

Fin D said:

I'm not putting WR "depth" ahead of oline. I'm saying the talent level of oline in this draft is so deep you can grab a solid starter in the 2nd. I genuinely feel like you're just not accepting this point. Any 2nd rd RT we take will be light years better than what we had.

The staff doesn't have an aversion to playing rookies. They didn't play many of them last year, sure, but DJ, Taylor, Davis, Thomas were all injured and either missed time or didn't have a set position. They will play who performs the best.

Also, if we get Zach Martin, he's NEVER played tackle. How are you more confident in a person whose never played the position, then a guy like JuWaun or Turner who excelled at the position but may drop to the second?

I'm normally with you when it comes to not screwing around in the draft and just taking the guy at the spot. However, this draft is different when it comes to oline talent. There's a luxury in this draft not normally afforded, and that's being sure there's first round talent at a position of need well into the 2nd (possibly even the 3rd). This almost never happens. I know people always label a draft as being an "X position" deep draft, but this one is abnormally deep at oline.
Click to expand...

I hear you loud and clear, I just don't agree. When you say the draft is loaded at OT and we can get one in the 2nd or 3rd I say fine, let's get one at 19 and he should be as good as maybe a top 10-15 pick, perhaps a guy who can slide over to LT in a pinch. Albert misses games every single year, he's pushing 30 and he just signed a big time contract so the chances of him missing time are arguably higher than ever.

The point I've yet to see you address is how a guy like Beckham or Cooks fits with the guys we already have. Are they starters? No. Not until they learn the routes, checks, etc AND out perform our current guys. Would you be OK with drafting a first round WR who rarely plays bc I wouldn't.

It basically comes down to this: taking a WR only marginally helps the team, and that's a best case scenario. These rooks may be more talented but in this offense it's more about reading defenses, route running, anticipation etc, as Wallace found out last year. Any snaps the rook gets would be taking snaps away from Hartline, Gibson, Matthews, perhaps Wallace, there simply won't be any major improvement there, especially for the first year or two.

A rookie OT will be replacing no one. He will be the day one starter and it makes sense to get the best one available. I'd rather take the 5th best OT at 19 than wait til 50 and get the 8-10-12th best guy. Especially for a WR. Makes no sense to me at all.

I don't believe for a second that there aren't any productive receivers to be found in the 2nd-3rd round, there always are. Keenan Allen was a 3rd round pick last year, for example. The difference for later picks is often not related to talent. It's often related to how ready the player is to contribute right away or if he will need time to develop. We can take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and develop him into the type of WR we want, that's successful drafting and player development coming together. We have that luxury because we have productive WRs to carry load while it happens. That's not the case at OT. We can't take a lesser prospect and coach him up he has to be ready for week 1 which = no dicking around.

13Machine8385 · Apr 27, 2014

finfansince72 said:

I think most of our long time struggles were due to the Qb position, I think we need some more playmakers but I do think we are a playoff team with an improved line, thats kind of the point. If we improve the running game and oline the passing game will improve too.
Click to expand...

Good point. It was definately nice to see us finally draft a QB in first round. It was a long time coming. I always wonder what might have been if we didn't trade away Tannehill's only true #1 WR before he even had a chance to play a snap with him.

As far as the OL goes. We did a decent job in FA. The left side and center look to be in good shape now. Investing a first round pick on another OL doesn't seem practical. Defense would be a better angle than OL.

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