The Miami Dolphins are inept collectively at Social Media

The problem with Don Jones is the fact that he is a Man. Instead of being a little crying whiny baby who hides behind is lawyer.

 

lol

 

really? do you honestly believe that load of crap you're trying to sell me? If so, i have beach front property in arizona i'd like to sell you.

 

That makes no sense. Jones would have to show some loss (regardless of the merits or lack there of). In this case his loss would be whatever the lost income from the fine or suspension was. Even if he won the suit, which I see almost no chance of, he'd pay almost all of that to the lawyers unless he's awarded legal fees as well and then probably end up cut at the end of camp anyways. (It would be for play reasons legally, of course) His career would most likely end as a result of his desire to defend his right to be an idiot. That's fine if you have no stake and are just arguing on message board, but for a player it would just be stupid.

As for the merits, all the NFL would have to do is show all the negative publicity that his comment generated and then point to the clause in the contract where he agrees that he can be fined if his conduct is detrimental to the league.

 

Most people understand this, it's the "what's offensive" part that people disagree on.

Many people look at this as

"Sams can show who he is and face no backlash"

While in the other end

"Jones can show who he is and gets fined and rehabilitated for it"

On one hand a guy can be gay and open about it, but another has to hold his tongue or get fined.

In this case, I get it, I really do. But what's deemed "offensive" is pretty much governed by public opinion. It could just as easily be

"Sams kisses his partner in draft day, gets fined and rehabilitated because of it"

^^^That's obviously wrong. Is it less wrong than fining Jones for his views?

I dunno. I had no opinion on Jones and now I think he's an idiot with the maturity of an 8th grader. I'm also not a fan of letting the court of public opinion decide what's a fine-able offense. It's all fine and dandy to let it happen until something you feel strongly about becomes the new en-vogue target.

"Jones expresses he's an athiest, gets fined and rehabilitated"

"Jones is pro-choice, gets fined and rehabilitated"

"Jones is pro 2A, gets fined and rehabilitated"

"Jones wants Guantanamo closed, I gets fined and rehabilitated"

"Jones supports government supplied healthcare, gets fined and rehabilitated"

They're all just an opinion. I get where we're trying to go as a society, but don't necessarily agree with those who smack down the opposition because they have the momentum.

 

He hurt the Dolphins because "tolerant" people disagree with his opinion. How ironic is that? You're confusing prevalence with longevity. Polar bears have been around for about 5 million years and yet relatively few people have ever seen one in the wild.

 

Not ironic at all.

 

All opinions are equal...to the tolerant.

 

I guess you need to learn the definition of ironic also.

 

You need to learn the definition of tolerant. At least an adult definition.

An idea that someone is tolerant of all things is childish and stupid. No one here is claiming to be the Buddha.

 

All opinions are equal, to the dead or to the Buddha.

Real people have minds who weigh things based in circumstances.

 

Well then blame Jack Dorsey for what Jones said.

 

That doesn't even make sense!!!!

 

Except you cant hold one player up to a certain standard and not other players or it is discriminatory.

 

ESPN is too blame for broadcasting Sams inappropriate behavior then it stands to reason that Twitter is too blame for Jones's bad conduct.

She is deflecting Sams responsibility for his actions onto ESPN but wants Jones to accept responsibility for his.

 

It doesn't stand to reason. Twitter didn't go into Jone's home, didn't type a response into the account, and didn't hit send.

Blame for Sam's actions? Why didn't you just change the channel? Was someone forcing you watch it? You are blaming ESPN for your actions.

 

Its not like he could be a worse owner than Ross has been

 

What law did Jones violate?

 

The team and the league want to portray themselves as gay friendly.

That's why they took action against Jones and not against Sams (plus, you know, the Dolphins don't employ Sams).

The negative press is undeniable. It exists because Jones did something to warrant it. That is inarguable. Jones actions hurt the team, the team punished him for it. No one's rights were infringed. Every party involved had a choice to act or not act as they did. Every party involved made those choices within the law. Jones and the Dolphins are beholden to the contract's requirements. No one's freedoms were infringed. No one overstepped their bounds. No one broke any laws. The Dolphins didn't punish Jones on moral grounds, they did it on financial grounds.

I wish. Really and truly wish, that the people that are arguing against this punishment had made any argument at all any other time a player was punished for saying or doing something stupid. Since that will never happen, why don't we just nut the hell up, drop the pretenses and really state your problems with this......you were grossed out by gay men, you think homosexuality is a choice and is a sin that should be stopped. At least then, the argument will be on honest ground, instead of this manufactured "freedom" bs that's been going on for too many pages.

 

If you saw my belly you might walk that statement back

 

Without seeing the actual language of the discrimination policy, I think I have to side with adamp's reasoning here. What Don Jones says is bigoted and absolutely moronic, but did any actual discrimination take place?

I see this memo. The one area where I can see it run afoul is the harassment area, specifically jokes, COMMENTS, and antics. But I doubt he fights it. They'll relent. They let killers, stealers and drug dealers play.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2013/04/29/0ap1000000165223.jpg

 

They let STARS who are killers, thieves and drug dealers play. Jones is a special team guy.

 

Which exposes the hypocrisy of it all.

 

No it doesn't.

Again, the pro Jones crowd keeps positioning the Dolphins actions as moral based. Their actions were business/PR based. Sure, they may speak a good game in front of the cameras but that's all for the business/PR advantage.

 

Espn did not force Sams to smear cake on his lover. Why shouldnt he be excpected to take responsibility for putting on an inappropiate display of affection in public. You guys keep railing on about how the NFL is punishing Jones because he tarnished their reputation but it can just as easily be argued that Sams did the same thing. Like it or not Sams actions offended many people and they now have a negative perception of the league. Why shouldnt Sams be held accountable for hurting the NFL with his poor judgement.

You guys give Sams a pass because he is a hero of your cause because he put himself front and center in the firing line of controversy. Jones is a sucker cause he fell into the trap and now he is being brutalized for it much to all your alls glee.

My opinion which I have refrained from sharing till now is this.

I find myself feeling sad at most everybodys behavior. Seeing men kissing is nothing new to me. I have gay men in my family that I am very close too and its nothing shocking to me. It does not change that what Sams chose to do was inappropiate. He comes off as an attention whore to me and he used his sexuality to get his 15 min of fame. Thats disgusting to me.

Jones being offended by him being gay is also sad to me. Big deal two people are in love and they had a moment together. Im not bothered that he tweeted it but Im bothered that it upset him because it reflects how narrow minded many people are about love. People who agree with him sadden me too.

People defending Sams are being duped into believing they are fighting homophobia. He is using you and Jones both. He is in the spotlight thanks to all of you and Jones. He wants to be a wedge and you both made him that.

Then theres the people who think like me that are sitting on the sidelines because they dont want to deal with the wrath of confronting people like you head on. Those cowards need to stand up for whats right and if they dont and you guys win and intimidate your way into having total control of the narrative than they deserve what they get stuck with.

Too many sheeps and not enough Lions around.

 

We agree on this much

 

Absolutely.

It has nothing to do with the fact that there are over 300 million individuals in this country who speak hundreds of languages, practices countless religions, grew up in limitless households, have taken countless walks of life, and had their views on society impacted by more factors than can ever be counted.

The only reasonable conclusion for not agreeing with FinD is raging homophobia. It is precisely that black and white. Anyone who disagrees is close minded.

So FinD hath spoken.

/endthread


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Tell you what, instead of making the same post over and over and over, you actually refute what I said with an actual argument. Are you capable?

For example, prove why this issue where no one's freedoms were infringed, is about threatened freedoms. Or prove to me how the religious angle you hinted at, is different than what I said.

I dunno....do something...instead of this stupid **** that adds nothing to the debate and makes you sound like a jaded lover who is hoping I'll call one day.

 

ESPN has a 7 second delay. They could have cut away at any time. It isn't a life feed. Thus destroying your entire argument.

NFL isn't punishing Jones. The Miami Dolphins are. Just like most people are saying, it has more to do with Pouncey and Incognito than anything to do with Sam.

Sam isn't my hero.

I am more offended that it is a controversy. My opinion is that I am honestly sick of the fact that this is even a conversation. Scientifically speaking, gay people and animals are natural. There is actually a pretty good biological reason for gay animals. They have been around for thousands of years. It is not a choice.

No one here is even brutalizing Jones. To most people that I have read, he did something stupid, embarrassed the team at the wrong time, got punished, now move on. You are creating some weird fantasy land where everyone is just jumping up and down in joy.

Also, a lot of people are attention whores. Especially professional athletes and celebrities.

I find it much more wrong that we live in a society where he can just say, "I am gay" and all of a sudden be 10% of 3rd day draft coverage.

Sometimes we need attention whores like Jackie Robinson and Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks.

I feel sorry for people who think like you. What a sad world you live in, where being gay is an agenda. A mouse who thinks he is a lion.

 

Now now, what you choose to do inside the privacy of your own maynard is your business and yours alone. But don't bring a camera into the equation unless I'm paying you good money to.

 

Keep fighting the good fight brother

 

Because that by your own admission would deprive you of an "honest argument" that you're apparently dying to have.

Anyone who disagrees with the punishment is a raging homophobe.

Anything else is a strawman.

I for one am glad you were able to cut through the "fake" arguments about rights, social acceptance, tolerance, and religion, and point out where all of those people are truly coming from.

 

I think we're all naturally hypocrites. I may call people out who cheat or don't support making divorce illegal or had sex before marriage (because it's incredibly convenient to support divorce but not gay marriage...) if they also oppose gay marriage, but I do admit i'm a hypocrite also. I'll just try my best not to be, especially if it would come to interfering with other people being equal in the land of the free.

As a side note, here's a tip: a gay guy makes the best wingman for a straight guy. There's no competition, we easily take on the girl you think is ugly and keep her busy, and hot straight women love gay guys and will love you in return for hanging with one. May also be able to point out if a hot girl is a stage 5 clinger, as said hotness won't be a distraction. Really missing out there if you don't take advantage.

 

No fighting, only wasting my time

 

So you're not going to change your approach....figures.

Fine, I'll do it.

Rights:
No one's rights were infringed. Please illustrate whose rights were infringed..other than homosexuals who aren't allowed to marry each other or have spousal rights. Since no one's rights were infringed what is the reason to keep bringing up rights over and over and over? Especially when the NFL has long history of punishing players for saying stupid things and no one has attacked that practice until now?

Forget its me, and just answer the questions or argue the points.

Religion:
Religion has an indirect role in this situation. there are some religions that portray homosexuality as a sin. Based on that, they feel grossed out by gay men, think homosexuality is a choice and is a sin that should be stopped as I said earlier. Since religion has barely been brought up in this thread as a reason to be upset with Sams or defend Jones, it stands to reason that religion fueled bias is fueling the "Rights:" stance that has already been determined to be a false issue.

Forget its me, and just answer the questions or argue the points.

Social Acceptance & Tolerance:
These are the same thing in this argument. Yes, there are issues with tolerance. I never denied that. in fact, its the very point that I'm making. the pro-jones crowd is intolerant of homosexuality and feel there should be NO societal consequences for espousing their bias. I know, I know you want to bring up the "liberals are intolerant of my beliefs" bs. That simply isn't true. Jones was allowed to speak his mind and still is. We all agree on that. Where we differ, is that you and your side think the freedom should stop there. My side thinks the same freedom exercised by Jones should also be given to those who disagree with Jones. We also think the Dolphins have the freedom to make it clear they do not support Jones statements and will not keep him employed unless he atones for what he did. we also believe Jones has the right to either leave the Dolphins or accept their terms. So again, our said is tolerant of gays, bigotry, anti-bigotry, businesses defending themselves, contracts and employees making their own decisions. Your side is only tolerant of the bigotry displayed.

Forget its me, and just answer the questions or argue the points.

All of that is why I say the argument isn't honest...rights are not an issue, your side is the intolerant one and this is actually all about being against gays (which is often religion fueled).

 

I have no idea what 2A is but the rest I don't see as analogous. Yes, public opinion is a big part b/c the NFL sells to the public, but the issue here is tolerance. The NFL can't allow itself to be seen as intolerant of any group that is considered law-abiding and non-discriminatory itself. Therefore it's representatives can't voice intolerance. All of your other examples don't fit.

 

I would like to commend this thread because, aside from tangents into climate change and incest, it's mostly been a respectful discussion. There's been some left-wing/right-wing bashing, but I haven't really read anything overtly homophobic, which I am very grateful. Sure there's a lot of people just repeating themselves over and over, but it's a message board and that's the nature of the beast

Ten years ago when I joined finheaven there were gay slurs everywhere, it seemed to be the default dig. I don't see any of that on thephins nowadays, in fact the amount of talk about "man-crushes" and "man-on-man innuendo teasing" is somewhat startling (I blame djphinfan lol). It's a palpable difference, this thread included.

So, thank you.

 

Asked answered and asked again. SMH. Pages and pages of well thought arguments from both sides, and you presume to distill it down to "they're just homophobes". Shocking.

1. Rights: Few are arguing rights. Most are arguing the hypocrisy of someone being celebrated for who they are, while someone is being fined for being who they are. I have no problem with Sams, I have a big problem with what Jones said. I just don't happen to think that everyone who draws my ire deserves to be shouted into a closet. I think open debate is healthy, and censoring people isn't. After 30+ pages of this you still obviously don't grasp
the fact that people are discussing the moral, not legal dilemma of censoring Jones.
Get it? Didn't think so, but don't let that stop you.

2. Again with "Rights". You LOVE rights, until you don't agree with them. Then you troll the opposition and belittle them to stroke your ego.Your stance is that they're grossed out and that it's a choice, you lend no merit to their personal beliefs or morals. Stellar argument. Your reasoning is flawed and your views on religion prejudicial. You don't even pretend to entertain the views of others for a moment before you write them off as intolerant religious nuts. There's no use discussing this subject with you any further.

3. Again, you demonstrate an uncanny ability to miss the mark. Being "Anti punishment" is NOT being "Pro-Jones". MANY MANY arguments here have been made based on moral objections to silencing someone due to unpopular beliefs. This argument has absolutely nothing to do with homophobia, and everything to do with what is appropriate censoring in our society. You draw conclusions about "My side" without ever acknowledging my acceptance of homosexuals, gay rights, and my personal advocacy to advance those rights. In your mind you claim the moral high ground and write anyone who doesn't agree off as a homophobe.
I could care less if a Jones made a post about gays, race, religion, gender, or any other myriad of "hot button" topics. The stance that one person can be who he is publicly, and another can't disgusts me. Jones should know better, I think it was stupid, but the outrage is disproportionate.


Unfortunately for you it's not about being against gays. You can repeat it as much as you want, but it won't make you any less wrong. You either can't comprehend the discussion that's going on around you, or you don't care to. Whichever it is doesn't matter. I typed this up knowing full well that it won't make a lick of difference in what you think. Your past posts indicate a close-mindedness and hypocrisy rivaled only by the likes of Archie Bunker. I am hoping that perhaps someone else reads this and can step back enough to at least understand the argument, whether they agree with it or not. Then hopefully this isn't a complete waste of my time.


So troll on. I've exhausted my long-winded posts in this thread. I don't need to defend my views on homosexuality to you or anyone else. My practice of acceptance and advocacy for gay rights are no less true because someone on a message board needs to put people in a neat little box.





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Which exposes the hypocrisy. Only you would disagree with my argument and then go on to make the very same argument.