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Holy cow!! we have a new middle linebacker.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, May 28, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ''Philbin stopped short of saying Koa Misi’s move to middle linebacker is permanent but the Dolphins are intrigued by the possibility. With Misi in the middle, “we should be more stout,” Philip Wheeler said. “He’s obviously a bigger guy.”

    And Dannell Ellerbe, who played middle linebacker last season, said, “I got to show more athleticism outside. In Baltimore, I played outside. Koa's athletic and fast enough to do it. We have to get him on the field more.”

    The job carries a lot more responsibility for Misi, who will be responsible for barking out the calls if he stays in the middle.''


    pretty freakin POA if you ask me {my 10 year old says that POA means awesome in kid language.}


    I really supported the idea all the way back to two three years ago, he just has that look, that build, is strong at the point of attack , is better in coverage than most think,{better than ellerbe ill tell ya that] what i cant predict is whether he can diagnose while going downhill..We all will have to wait for that

    i'm excited to find out,i applaud the balls to make the switch even if it doesn't work out..
     
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  2. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Sorry, I'm already scouting next year's linebacking class and looking at 2015 free agents. Blow this LB group up.
     
  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ..... but with the bomb detonating prematurely just for fun..... like while he's still on his bicycle in the garage.
    "Hey Ma, I'm leaving and I won't be home for dinn*BOOM*"
     
  4. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    This could open the door for more base 3-4 sets. Misi and Ellerbe as Mike and Will just makes so much sense, and it would relegate Wheeler to the bench.
     
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  5. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Is it? At this point it just looks like they are shifting everyone around. Misi to middle, Ellerbe to weak and Wheeler to strong.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What about OV at LB?
     
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  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The fact that they've also moved Trusnik to the middle suggests that they're fundamentally altering the defensive scheme to do this, rather than putting Misi at Mike and keeping things the same.
     
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  8. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I thought Trusnik lined up at backup MLB last year (when Spitler wasn't playing at least).
     
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  9. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    You owe me a coffee and a Logitec keyboard. Maybe a new monitor as well.

    Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
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  10. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Achmed! Is that you!!??
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ya, I think he ended up there. He's been primarily an ILB before in NY/Cleveland, but I think it indicates an interest in a certain style that they're moving him from primarily the "strong-side" position
     
  12. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    I appreciate that they are aware of the situation and looking into alternatives. Misi has the skillset for mlb, it makes sense
     
  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    We really, really seem to have personell custom suited to play a mean 3-4, but refuse to go that route.
     
  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It would work I think, but I'm not sure what the big benefit would be. You'd still only be getting two of Wake/Vernon/Jordan on the field in the base package.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Have been saying Misi should be at MLB..for yrs

    Wheeler at Sam..seems problematic, he is not exactly stout at the POA, I'd heard that is where Jenkins was running with the second team, which still seems odd as his game is speed/range and better suited to the Will, Lb corps will be fast though.

    Great unsaid in all of this is we have a "natural" Sam already on the roster, tall, fast, upped his strength, Dion Jordan is a DE though in their minds, we have a good backup DE in Shelby, so his slot in the rotation would not be a void.

    Sometimes this staff boggles me, one step forward, two steps back
     
  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Well, I think that Jordan makes a better 3-4 OLB than he does a 4-3 end, for one. And Wake is awesome either way. It also would mean that Starks, Odrick and Mitchell all start, and one of Misi or Wheeler sits, which is a win. You could also have Vernon in there with the other two on pass rush downs of course.
     
  17. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He did. I think he played there against Baltimore when Ellerbe went out and the subsequent Buffalo game, IIRC.
     
  18. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Wake is a much better 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB, IMO.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    IMO, it is not even close. Wake is a lot better as a 4-3 DE.

    Dolphins don't have the linebackers for a 3-4.
     
  20. jaymoney

    jaymoney it's magic baby

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    I agree with you and i don't like it but that's the only option they has i guess.Failed on FA, didn't pick up LB at draft.
     
  21. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nah, we have the OLB and ILB for a 3-4 covered, but not the d-line. It would take a draft similar to 2008 to get Miami the needed personal to run the 3-4 again, which could happen with new Head Coach.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Wake was a 3-4 OLB in 2010 and 2011. PFF had him at 25 sacks, 40 hits and 80 hurries those two years...on 928 pass rush snaps. That's a very high pressure percentage (15.6%).

    It's even higher if you exclude his work from the right side of the defense. The coaches got wise to this by 2011 and had him working exclusively from the left side but in 2010 he worked the right side about 1/3rd of the time and was very ineffective there. It's just too alien to him. From the left side over the two seasons he had 24 sacks, 33 hits and 74 pressures on 781 pass rush snaps. The resulting 16.8% pressure percentage is borderline absurd, if you're familiar with these numbers as I am.

    He also had a +3.1 rating in Run Defense in 2010, and a +8.0 in 2011 when they kept him exclusively to his natural side. His Stop Percentages (percentage of run plays where he had a solo tackle that resulted in an offensive failure) in the run game were easily in the upper half among 3-4 OLBs...12 out of 33 in 2010 and 11 out of 28 in 2011. Missed tackles weren't an issue for him. He spent 104 snaps out in coverage and allowed 145 yards on 12 of 14 passing, but that's over the course of two seasons so it's hardly much of a factor (5 yard a game?).
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'm sure some of your Junior High classmates will be excited to read your scouting reports...
     
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  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He did. He started one game when Ellerbe was out. He was essentially the 2nd string MLB most if not all the season.
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wheeler has been a strongside guy his entire career, and played his career best in Oakland in a mostly on-the-line position. I think he's probably your best bet for improvement in shuffling that has occured at linebacker.
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He's issue last season was a distinct lack of physicality, putting him their fulltime is not likely to suddenly turn him into Matt Roth.
     
  27. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Go ahead just blow it then.

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A 3-4 OLB might "protect" him better vs. the run, but it's also an area where he needs to and should be expected to grow. If they can plausibly get him to improve in that area through weight game and technique and he can play a 6-technique type position in the base package, why not?

    He's going to get significant coverage snaps regardless, and last year most of them were in Nickel situations. I think that's more valuable than base package coverage snaps. I'd also tend to think it wouldn't be a hard and fast rule that he's a defensive end. If it turns out Jordan is a magic bullet against elite tight ends, and teams are trying to throw against the Dolphins base package, they'd adjust.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Still awaiting word on whether Wheeler's position has actually changed at all.

    I know there was an assumption that Ellerbe would move to Will and Wheeler to Sam but there's been no specific note of that. In fact I saw one note that specifically said Ellerbe was moving to Sam. I don't 100% trust the beat reporters to identify the different positions so I try not to take that note as gospel...but I'd also not necessarily assume that the shuffling at linebacker has involved Wheeler until we have more solid word that it has.
     
  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The rules on how the fronts are aligned in this defense are complicated enough that I think it's hard for anyone(much less our beat writers) to get it straight with an economy of words. Is Koa Misi a SAM because his positioning and alignment looks most frequently like that, or is he a WILL because despite that he's most frequently on the weakside of the formation?
     
  31. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I still think there's principles of Jack Dooley's Eagle Defense that are prevalent. It might just be because it's an Under front in reverse to keep Cam Wake on the left side, but in Jack Dooley's VaTech defense, they had their "Eagle Linebacker" (most athletic, best in coverage) line up on the tight end side along with their "Eagle" best pass-rusher, and strong safety, while using their bigger, more traditional SAM type of linebacker on the weak side. The theory being you had fewer, but bigger defenders to the offense's weakside, and more players with athleticism to the offense's strong side.
     
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  32. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    How does that compare to his numbers as a DE?
     
  33. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    His DE numbers are much better, +53.8(+37.7 pass, +10.4 run, +4.2 penalty) in 2012 and +27.2(+27.7 pass, -0.2 run, +2.1 penalty) in 2013. 2012 was PFF's 2nd best season ever by a 4-3 end (since they starting keeping track in 2008) and 2013 was the 14th best.

    There must be coverage numbers in the formula because the numbers don't add up.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    theres some quotes from ellerbe about getting Misi in there, as in the middle, and that he's got the size and speed for it..just in case you hadn't read them..
     
  35. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    No, his DE numbers are not much better. His overall score at 3-4 OLB in 2010 and 2011 were +38.5 and +41.1 respectively, and his pass rush numbers were +32.2 and +31.0. His PRP was about the same at OLB and DE over the last 4 years. So his 2012 numbers at DE were a bit better than his OLB numbers in 2010 and 2011, but his OLB numbers were a bit better than his 2013 DE numbers. I think he is about equivalent at OLB and DE. As long as his hand is down and he's on the edge, he's pretty damn good.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Misi's having moved to the Mike position is not really in question. We're curious about whether Wheeler has also moved from Will to Sam or whether Misi and Ellerbe just swapped.
     
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  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I have a 16.9% pressure rate at DE in 2012 and 2013 which is ever so slightly higher than his LOLB number. However his run defense ratings were +10.4 and -0.2, which speaks of inconsistency. His Run Stop percentages told the same story, #10 out of 37 in 2012 and #20 out of 30 in 2013.

    Jason Taylor thinks moving to OLB prolonged his career. It would certainly stand to reason that Cam Wake could reap the same benefit.

    One could certainly argue that between Jared Odrick, Randy Starks, Earl Mitchell, Cam Wake and Dion Jordan, Miami has the personnel to be running a 3-4. Remember that was Earl Mitchell's job at Houston, he was a 3-4 NT despite his not looking the part.

    But I think the coaches would argue that the defensive line is understaffed for the scheme. The Dolphins could achieve an active rotation at OLB with Olivier Vernon subbing in for Dion Jordan and Cameron Wake, and they could achieve an active rotation at ILB between Ellerbe, Wheeler and Misi...but who would rotate with Starks, Mitchell and Odrick? I think Derrick Shelby could sub in a bit but who knows if he'd be any good at it. They'd be stuck hoping that they're sitting on an unredeemed lotto ticket in A.J. Francis or Anthony Johnson.
     
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  38. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I find this image disturbing, yet I can't stop looking at it.
     
  39. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Once you finish you can't complain.

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  40. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Imagining you complaining loudly as you fap.



    Good stuff.
     

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