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OTA thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SICK, May 27, 2014.

  1. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    And to be honest, I don't think if we WERE moving DJ to linebacker, Philbin would be so open to telling the world after the first day of OTAs
     
  2. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    On average 60% of the time.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know how you guys read what Philbin said but when I saw it, it looked to me like they're going to be using Dion Jordan differently from how they did a year ago.

    A year ago they absolutely toyed around with him as a pseudo linebacker. He lined up from an up position and zone blitzed, he played spy on the quarterback, he covered on about 18% of pass plays which is higher than what Wake did in 2010 and twice as high as Wake did in 2011...both of those years being years in which Wake played as a 3-4 OLB.

    I think what Philbin is saying is that they're streamlining his duties even compared with a year ago. Last year Vernon only pulled out into a zone coverage on 4% of pass snaps and Wake only 6%...compared with Jordan's 18%. I think they're saying they're going to make Jordan more like Wake and Vernon in 2014, getting him to focus on improving his pass rush technique.

    In some ways that's a good idea because I always thought coming out that the biggest thing Jordan was going to have to work on was making good on his potential as a pass rusher by developing a better feel for it, varying his moves, etc. That was the thing I wasn't sure he could do at the next level and I think his experience at Oregon actually made him under-developed in that regard.

    But on the other hand, it's just that much longer before the Dolphins could potentially reap the benefits of drafting him...and all the more reason you don't do it at #3 overall.
     
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  4. Mexphin

    Mexphin Well-Known Member

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    OTA's no open for media today?
     
  5. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree with everything except this…. I don't think you judge him purely as a #3 overall value…

    You judge him based on the actual cost, which according to our draft trade was very very favorable. In terms of what we gave up for Dion, wouldn't he fall more in the #7-8 range? And could we argue a little more patience there?

    Just playing devil's advocate. I don't know that I'm thrilled with delayed return on the investment either.
     
  6. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Next one open to media is Monday.
     
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  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If they reduce Dion Jordan's coverage workload significantly the coaching staff should be shot out of a cannon into a wall Looney Tunes-style.
     
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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Not if Dion Jordan improves his pass rush percentage.
     
  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    So long as the overall team impact is better, not worse. Not much point reaching the QB on 33% of your snaps if you get 21 snaps (7 sacks) compared to getting to the QB 16% of the time on 100 snaps (16 sacks)… unless the players who get the remaining 79 snaps produce more than 9 sacks with them.
     
  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean- If he increases the percentage of the time he's rushing during his passing down snaps? I don't agree with that at all if so.

    You don't draft Dion Jordan to make him a guy who is rushing the passer 95%+ of the time, I don't like it even as a developmental tool. You can get him on the field easier and more often if you work with his versatility.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I disagree. I think you draft Dion Jordan to have him rush the passer. If he can increase his pass rush success percentage, which is what I meant, meaning pressures, sacks and hits, then it is a waste to have him cover. The beauty of a player like Dion Jordan is that you can rush him from almost anywhere and have a lot of flexibility.

    If he is better against the run, then you can keep him on the field more.
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Absolutely you judge him based on the #3 overall value. What it cost to get the #3 overall is irrelevant because once Miami had that #3 overall pick in their hands, it was theirs. It didn't suddenly become less valuable. It was a #3 overall pick and it was in Miami's hands. It belonged to them. If you buy a flashlight from Peter for $5 and then sell it to Paul for $10 then use that $10 to buy a stapler, you paid $10 for that stapler.

    Whether you should've bought that stapler or not depends on whether it was worth the $10 because once you sold that flashlight you had $10 in your possession and could've bought anything with it. You could've bought an iPhone charging cord. You could've bought some Panang Chicken from your local Thai food restaurant. You could have bought a Maglite. Instead you bought a stapler, and not even a Swingline stapler. Was it really rworth more than the charging cord, curry or fancy flashlight? That's the question.

    Have you ever found a $5 bill on the street? Or maybe turned in a $50 winning lotto ticket? Did everything you bought from then on get $5 or $50 cheaper?
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know if I agree with it either but that seems to be what he's implying.
     
  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm really not sure how you can justify it when serious pass rushing threats dropping into coverage is an uncontroversial and long-extant element in NFL defenses. It's literally a fundamental tenet of some modern NFL defenses(Green Bay, Pittsburgh). It allows you to do a tremendous amount in regards to coming up with creative and unexpected blitz packages, and having situations where blockers are occupied by defenders who aren't actually rushing the ball presents a significant advantage.

    Would you say that James Harrison, a guy whose career involved him dropping into coverage roughly 40% of his passing snaps with Pittsburgh was wasted?
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If Dion Jordan becomes an effective pass rusher, as an offensive coordinator, I am more happy during the plays where he is in coverage than the plays where he rushes the passer.

    If Harrison can get to the quarterback 15-20% of the times he rushes, then yes, his talent is being wasted.
     
  16. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Interesting now that Dion Jordan is the same size as Jadeveon Clowney. Both are listed around 6-5 or 6-6 and 265 lbs.

    Jordan pre-draft:
    [TABLE="class: wikitable"]
    [TR]
    [TH]Ht[/TH]
    [TH]Wt[/TH]
    [TH]Arm length[/TH]
    [TH]Hand size[/TH]
    [TH]40-yd dash[/TH]
    [TH]10-yd split[/TH]
    [TH]20-yd split[/TH]
    [TH]20-ss[/TH]
    [TH]3-cone[/TH]
    [TH]Vert[/TH]
    [TH]Broad[/TH]
    [TH]BP[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]6 ft 6¼ in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]248 lb[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]33⅞ in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10 in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]4.54 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]1.61 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]2.59 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]4.35 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]7.02 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]32½ in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10 ft 2 in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Clowney pre-draft:
    [TABLE="class: wikitable"]

    [TR]
    [TH]Ht[/TH]
    [TH]Wt[/TH]
    [TH]Arm length[/TH]
    [TH]Hand size[/TH]
    [TH]40-yd dash[/TH]
    [TH]10-yd split
    [/TH]
    [TH]20-yd split[/TH]
    [TH]20-ss[/TH]
    [TH]3-cone[/TH]
    [TH]Vert[/TH]
    [TH]Broad[/TH]
    [TH]BP[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]6 ft 5 3/4 in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]266 lb[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]34 [SUP]1[/SUP]⁄[SUB]2[/SUB] in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10 in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]4.53 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]1.56 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"][/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]4.43 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]7.27 s[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]37 1/2 in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10 ft 4 in[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]21 reps
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Not sure why Jordan is considered to be "Toiling" at DE... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...jordan-still-toiling-at-de-for-miami-dolphins
     
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  17. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    I agree, Jordan's primary benefit to the team would be rushing the passer and containing the run on first and second down. As for covering the TE, Jordan could be in coverage rotation when there's a LB or Safety blitz. You have to mix it up and have blitzes coming from different packages or Jordan could blitz from the LB spot. He has a lot on his plate.
     
  18. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Jordan is 'toiling' at DE because he saw limited time. He was 3rd overall No1 pick for Miami remember. Was expected to put up 20+ sacks last season. DJ seeing limited reps was a huge no-no to the uneducated non Dolphin NFL experts. Its still doing the rounds on the NFL vine that Jordan is still trade bait. For Miami he is a wasted pick...for Philadelphia he's the missing piece. Unreal.
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You've probably got to write a sincere open letter to the NFL to inform them how many defensive coordinators are wasting their time, then. Including but not limited to coordinators on three of the last decades Super Bowl winners in Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau, Mike Pettine, Rob and Rex Ryan, Ray Horton, Dean Pees, Romeo Crennel, etc.

    You've also got guys like Justin Houston, James Harrison, Brian Orakpo, Calvin Pace, Jerry Hughes, Paul Kruger, Anthony Spencer, Robert Mathis, LaMarr Woodley, Clay Matthews, Shaun Phillips(many of them multiple times) hitting double digit sack numbers while dropping into coverage at least 20% of their passing down snaps.
     
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  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I like how you used sarcasm, bravo.
     
  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Von Miller?

    But I would expand the stats to include hurries and hits etc.
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Slight tangent, but that's a sunk cost now. Now you judge him based on what you can get, and what he provides. This year. Last year is sunk. If we could get a #3 overall for him, absolutely! If you're offered something less, you have to decide, would you take DJ next year in the draft at the pick offered.

    You judge the pick based on where he was picked I agree. But that reflects more on Ireland, than DJ. Whether you keep him or not should be based on what you get.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Adalius Thomas Jr and they want to make a pure passrusher out of him
     
  24. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    With the TE speed Phins will face its a huge mistake imo. Jordan came out of last yrs draft as a hybrid speed DE/LB. You can't dismiss that speed purely to lock him in as a DE . I actually think DJ will be used in a few different looks and packages. I hope so. I would like to see his speed, burst and acceleration times compared to Phins LB unit.
     
  25. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Judge on the expenditure , he was third overall . Still have huge hopes for him but if , IF the third overall pick is a part time player/producer in year two something wasn't done right imo .
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    hes not gonna be that swift anymore at that size in coverage, you've got to sacrifice somewhere when you add 20lbs..I personally don't believe he will be 265 at the start of the season, his physiology is to quick twitch to hold that weight, I would estimate 255 max
     
  27. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe it's a bit over the top, but you're basically suggesting that a widespread and uncontroversial aspect of modern defensive football is wrong, and there's a lot out there to support it.
     
  28. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    But Thomas didn't start until his third year. I think they want to keep things simple for Dion so he can perhaps see the field more.
     
  29. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    well, you could argue its whats best for the team right now. As was the dream when we drafted him, imagine him and wake firing on all cylinders against opposing QBs. The two of them could win games themselves.
     
  30. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Yep that was the dream...but many seem to be forgetting he was coming off a major injury, that was re-aggravated early last year, and again as evidenced by how he carried himself, and wasn't near 100%...

    We knew about the injury pre-draft, so anybody who thought he'd have 15+ sacks last year was dreaming.

    He was drafted for 2014+.
     
  31. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    Today open to the media?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
     
  32. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Nope, only next Monday
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd be willing to bet that dion is the kind of guy that hides an injury, I saw it in the Cleveland game... He reinsured that shoulder, and never said a thing
     
  34. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Did Wallace have elbow reconstructive surgery during the offseason? :shifty:


    Good news is that his arms are suddenly extending... at least while there are no DBs around and the balls are coming from a jugs machine... :tongue2:


    [​IMG]
     
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  35. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Wake closing the door on Dalton and sealing the win against the Bengals

    [​IMG]
     
  36. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Yeah, ready for some football.

    [​IMG]
     
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  37. dolfan40

    dolfan40 Well-Known Member

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    2nd Week Ota's

    Starts at 10am...

    Post all Tweets here.

    Hope Tanny does better than last week.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I wouldn't sweat the reports from onlookers about how Tannehill is looking.
     
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  39. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Especially with a new offensive system in the folds.
     
  40. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    per Armando Billy Turner continues to work at LG, thus far lining up with the 2nd team. Nate Garner is the 2nd team LT...they should probably just bite the bullet and call Bryant McKinnie.
     

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