1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

PFF rates Fins as 13th best roster in NFL

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Unlucky 13, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,930
    63,009
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    cuchulainn likes this.
  2. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,828
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,930
    63,009
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    [h=3]13. Miami Dolphins[/h]Miami had some obvious problems ending the 2013 season, and to its credit the team has aggressively tried to fix them before the next season rolls around.
    [​IMG]
    Branden Albert coming in at left tackle represents a 19.5-point swing in PFF grading for pass protection towards the green, with Albert surrendering less than half the total pressure Bryant McKinnie did this past season. Ja'Wuan James was seen by many as a reach in the first round -- he was Todd McShay's ninth-graded offensive lineman with a second-round grade -- but he does address a clear need, and as McShay points out has "very good natural tools as a pass protector."
    This bolstering of the pass protection is key for the team, as Ryan Tannehill's passer rating dropped almost 50 points from 94.2 to 46.3 when he felt pressure in 2013. The team added some impressive depth in free agency, including Earl Mitchellon the defensive line and Louis Delmas in the secondary.
    By the numbers: The right side of the offensive line is a question mark, but otherwise eight members of the projected starting lineup (66.7 percent) rank as good starters or better. There are more question marks on the defense, where 50 percent of the unit is graded as average or worse.
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Seems about right.
     
  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,930
    63,009
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    You can look at the second stringers along with a color chart at PFF for free, just without the write up.
     
  6. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

    23,327
    35,934
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    [​IMG]
     
    MikeHoncho and unluckyluciano like this.
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Juuuust a bit outside....playoffs that is.
     
    Da 'Fins and ckparrothead like this.
  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,930
    63,009
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    Well, 6th in the AFC equals playoffs. Doesn't matter how many teams in the NFC may be better.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  9. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

    25,809
    39,060
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    Berlin,Germany
    actually 6th is the wild card....we always play the good teams tough, we just need to find a way to beat the teams we are "supposed" to beat
     
    77FinFan likes this.
  10. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,777
    7,574
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    PFF started this heat map thing, and actually analyzed Miami's roster earlier this week. They had Cam Wake as a high quality, not Elite. After that, and reviewing their chart, I didn't even bother reading the article.
     
  11. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,777
    7,574
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
  12. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,288
    2,486
    113
    Oct 30, 2013
    They said his performance wasn't elite last year. With the time the missed due to injury, it's a fair take

    I'm surprised they have Fede over Shelby.
     
    Tone_E likes this.
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I just saw 13 and figured as such.
     
  14. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    The OL was my biggest concern last season, and I feel much better this year about it... at least on paper. I'm excited about seeing the preseason. I'd like to think we have a legit shot at the playoffs. We will see.

    Pretty solid roster, though.
     
  15. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

    855
    610
    93
    Oct 12, 2013
    Dundee, Scotland
    Are both these charts over rating Moreno? Is he really of that level or did Denver make him look good? I'm understand that it's from historical data but I think the team.around made him look better.
     
  16. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    13,057
    8,875
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    This team is going to live and die off it's 2nd and 3rd year players stepping up. If they don't.....were looking outside again.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Initially I looked at them sideways when they didn't put Cam Wake as Elite.

    However in thinking about it, I can see where they're coming from. Wake is old and he essentially gave Miami a little over half of a season of "elite" in 2013. He gave Miami a superb Week 1 but then suffered through injuries and didn't start to round back into elite form until Week 9.

    That's a lot of time where he either wasn't on the field or he might as well have not been on the field...Week 2 to Week 8. If he were like 27 years old you've got to be thinking whatever, bad luck, he'll be healthy next year. But he's 32 years old so you've got to think there's a significant chance that sort of thing could happen again.

    When he's on the field and feeling OK there is absolutely no denying whatsoever he is an elite player. In fact I've gone on record saying he's the best pass rusher in the league in those circumstances, and I'll even go as far as saying one of the best that has ever played the game.

    But what happened in 2013 does make you wonder if at 32 years old we can count on more than 10 games of that "elite" level play from him.
     
    Stringer Bell and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  18. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Clark Kent, unifiedtheory and Tone_E like this.
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    That is only because if you are "good" you are not in pain enough to improve.

    The Dolphins are not in that situation.
     
    Tone_E and Larry Little like this.
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    I think you could apply it to a certain degree, but I'm not sure in the same context Desides was using.

    A good example here would be someone like Rishard Matthews. You want to get him reps to develop him, but he has three good WRs in front of him. Obviously there are concerns surfacing about his work-habits, so my point may not be valid with Matthews, but I think there are situations where guys may not get as much opportunity to develop.
     
  21. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,753
    9,844
    113
    Nov 10, 2010
    Interesting that they have Taylor as the RCB and Finnegan on the slot. Also interesting that they are ranking Thigpen as a wr.


    This is nitpicking but how is Fields not at least a high quality starter.
     
  22. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Very true. However, a team has to be good before they can be great. They just shouldn't get comfortable with being good.
     
    Unlucky 13 likes this.
  23. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Thigpen was just moved to WR. That's where he is now competing.
     
  24. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    I notice how Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Finnegan are rated as below average starters. Misi, Delmas, and Vernon are rated as only average. I tend to agree with these ratings and that is why I think the problems for the Dolphins this year are going to be mainly on defense.

    Assuming the OL improves, the offense should be more effective this coming season, but I see the defense continuing to take steps backwards from what it was just a couple of years ago. I have been stating for months that this team will once ago finish 8-8 or worse and with this defense, I think that is about the best we can expect this coming season.
     
  25. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

    18,216
    23,521
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    I'm not very concerned about Wake's age. I see his somewhat diminished production last year as being to to the injury and the sprained MCL isn't necessarily an old man's injury. It happens to 22 yr olds too. Considering that he recovered and played well down the stretch, there is no reason to think the MCL is an issue anymore. He is clearly a guy who takes very good care of his body. For reasons I don't fully understand, pass rushers are often able to maintain productivity well into their mid 30s.
     
    Mcduffie81 and djphinfan like this.
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    That is a bit of a stretch
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I would have to question some of what PFF has in their color coding.

    First off why is the PFF breakdown different from ESPN Insider? The latter shows Wake as elite, Dallas Thomas as the RG (which is weird) and Shelley Smith at LG. On ESPN Insider Olivier Vernon is a below average starter, and on PFF he's an average starter.

    Second when you consider that PFF graded Mike Wallace a +0.5 and Reshad Jones a -6.9 in 2013, it's tough to understand why they are color-coded as "good starters" as opposed to "average starters". I thought the idea behind the roster evaluation was to rely on their play-by-play grading in order to tell us which players they feel are really playing well and which are not.

    All that said I really like the idea, to some extent. I would probably do it a lot differently from them but it's still a good idea.
     
  28. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

    2,435
    1,672
    113
    Apr 27, 2013
    Brazil
    I see more reasons for us to be better or at least equal to last year on defense than for us to be worse. Carrol for Finnegan and Delmas for Clemons is basically a push, the only real downside personnel-wise is the loss of Soliai, but I believe that with Misi moving to MLB and the growth of the 2nd year guys, we won't miss Soliai as much.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,930
    63,009
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I agree. Also, when was the last time that we were good? 2008 was a below average team that hit every break and maxed out. I'd say that we haven't had a "good" team in more than a decade, so mentioning that we aren't "great" yet is getting ahead of our selves. Walk before you run.
     
    Larry Little likes this.
  30. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

    3,187
    1,030
    113
    Aug 14, 2011
    I would classify Pouncey as "high quality" over a "good starter" IMO.
     
  31. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Being the #2 corner in the league certainly doesn't qualify "elite" status...

    He didn't have 20 interceptions to go along with giving up zero TDs...scrub.
     
  32. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,753
    9,844
    113
    Nov 10, 2010
    I know they are trying him there but I didn't think that move was set in stone.
     
  33. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    I'm not a big fan of improvement from within. I'm a big fan of improvement by getting better players. Good players drop your draft position and prevent you from getting the really good/great players.
     
    Clark Kent and jw3102 like this.
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    " he's got no place else to go"

    Movie reference..

    Seriously I think Thigpen to receiver is pretty funny...he did get reps at returner during the OTA's.
     
  35. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    I was NEVER a fan of Carroll, but he had his best season ever in the NFL last year. Some on here think Finnegan can be the same player he was 3 or 4 years ago. I don't and I actually think Finnegan is a downgrade from Carroll, at this stage of their careers.

    Clemons was nothing special at the safety position, but I would still prefer him over Delmas. I will be extremely surprised if Delmas is able to play the entire season, based on his past. Last year was the first time in his career in the NFL that he actually played in all the regular season games. I was hoping that if the Dolphins let Clemons go in free agency, they would upgrade the position. I don't think that happened with the signing of Delmas.

    I think the Dolphins LB corp is probably near the bottom of the NFL as a group. They are weak against the run and are awful in pass coverage. Because the Dolphins are stuck with the contracts of Ellerbe and Wheeler and I really don't see much depth at the LB position, I think this group of LB's are going to be a major problem for the defense.

    I hope all these players perform at a much higher level than I anticipate. If they do and the offense is more productive, this team could possibly win 9 or 10 games and have a shot at the playoffs.
    Right now though, I'll stick with my prediction that the Dolphins will finish the 2014 season, 8-8 or 7-9.
     
  36. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    I don't know how set in stone it is. I know he's still listed as a RB on the official team site. I'm guessing PFF saw he's being used as a WR in OTAs, so, they chose to list him as a WR for rankings. That's just a guess, though.
     
  37. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    And, I tend to agree with you. But, don't you admit that for a team to be great, they would most likely need to be good first?
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I am exact opposite.
     
  39. Killer Carlson

    Killer Carlson New Member

    30
    6
    0
    May 21, 2014
    I'm surprised they don't like Vernon. I thought he was at least average last year.
     
  40. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

    12,363
    7,091
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Burnaby, BC, Canada
    If our quarterback is close to a Pro Bowl level (something I think could happen), our defense improves (I don't have high hopes because of the coordinator) and we receive quality coaching (I don't have any hopes of this happening) it's a playoff team. A one and done playoff team but a playoff team anyway.
     

Share This Page