This is an opinion thread NOT anything more...... Olivier Vernon had a breakout season last year at the age of 23, will be 24 in October. From all reports he has shown up this year in even better shape than last year, and I believe he could really have a monster year.... Dion Jordan is a wildcard, because there are so many rumors around, is he liked by the FO/Coaching staff? Can he play? Was he drafted to high? Are they using him right? I guess my point is how much longer are they going to go on not starting a kid they moved up 9 spots into the Top 5 to get? Let say for the sake of argument he flashes out in the spring/summer, where does he start? He isnt starting over Vernon IMO..... This leaves Wake, and I say this with a very heavy heart but might he be the one out? At 32 and a speed rusher, the regression is coming undoubtedly, it arguably already started last year. Do you guys/gals think Miami's explores a trade for him IF they believe DJ is the guy? Lastly what is the lowest round you take for him?
Seems kinda like it makes sense given the players we have at the position, but at the same time, it would continue a disturbing trend of getting rid of our best players. Remember the safety vs Cinci last year? Yeah let's keep him, we need guys that make plays in clutch situations, and it doesn't get more clutch than that.
He takes extreme care of his body... and he doesn't have a ton of wear and tear compared to others his age due to his path to the NFL... so I think he has more longevity than most would at his age. But he's also hardly untradable... Anything less than a 2nd though would be moronic...
NE used to make trades like that all the time to keep the shelf re-stocked. I love Wake, but would be OK with it if we got a 1 or 2.
I don't think it's anything that's likely at this point, but if Jordan were to break out this year and OV played well again then it could happen before next season depending on what they got for him. Maybe if the aforementioned occurred and there was a player in the draft they highly coveted, I could see that being a situation where moving Wake was explored. But based on his fanatical focus on staying fit, I could see Wake being one of those guys that is worth his contract far later in his career than is usually the case.
I'd tend to be of the mind that Olivier Vernon is most likely to be traded out of anyone on the D-line; even more likely if Dion Jordan and/or Derrick Shelby keep ascending.
Even when Cam Wake's salaries jump in 2015 and 2016 the salaries equate to about around the 18th or 20th highest paid pass rusher in the league. That is a bargain for a guy like Cameron Wake, who is actually in the top 3 as far as pass rush efficiency goes. If he starts to lose it then he starts to lose it but we haven't seen that happen yet. His efficiency is still through the roof. A team trading for him will be forced to reconcile his age and the fact that he might not fit as well in their system as he did in Miami. Those unknowns damage his value. He may also need to be immediately given a new deal, which will also damage his value. In other words, he's worth more to Miami than he is to the rest of the league, and therefore you're not going to receive fair compensation for him. Maybe we can discuss this heading into the 2016 season, but I think it's a borderline absurd discussion heading into the 2014 season.
It's diminishing returns. they struggled to find a good pass rusher for awhile. As far as Wake, DEs can play well as ghtye get on in years, just let him play out this contract.
John Abraham has averaged 11 sacks a season since turning 32, so if Wake's snaps are managed properly i don't see how he couldn't put up similar numbers. Obviously sacks aren't telling the whole story. I would prefer he retires with Miami, as I'd to see him post career as the team's S&C coach.
If it were a long established HC like BB I could see him making plans to trade an aging star for good value while he was still at his peak. As it is we have a lame duck HC and a GM who is basically on a trial basis.Neither are going to trade away one of their star players who will be helping them look good, Thats a decision for a future regime IMO.
Wouldn't do it..can't even think of a scenario that would, unless it's a high first rounder.. Best thing to do is allow Dion to play multiple positions, then when we want to turn wake Into trace Armstrong, then allow Dion to play full time at his spot.. Right now, like we were debating in the other thread, Coyle better figure something out to maximize the talents at our disposal.
I think the difference between this proposal and what New England's usual tactic is trading elite to very good players once they've become good or okay but before their reputation has caught up to their production. Richard Seymour is probably the post boy for it. His sack production fell by 50% the next year and his solo tackles dropped as well. For a DT both of those indicate he became less effective at penetration and shedding blocks. Not to mention Seymour had just finished his second best season statistically in his career so that pushed his value even higher. Just trading Wake because other people do something that seems similar to star players isn't enough. Wake is still producing at that elite level that you can't guarantee to get from a first round pick. He's producing at a level of a HOFer over a more traditional career path.
There may be a point in the future where Wake moves from being a full time starter to a situational pass rusher, but that isn't close yet. We need some veterans on our team and he is also signed to a pretty reasonable contract. Vernon, when he gets close to needing a new deal, is at that point the one we think about trading if Jordan etc are playing well. Wake is likely to be a cost effective option from here on out. Vernon, regardless of his overall level of play, has started putting up sack numbers that will generate a very large deal.
I can see a scenerio where if Oliver and Jordan really shine this season, and Shelby looks good, and Wake plays good but not great, he could be moved after the season, maybe for a 2nd rounder. I don't think that its likely though.
Perfect example of a team giving away great players for picks and never getting a return on investment. Trading away productive players hardly ever works out. We've been down this road many times before and we've lost more than we ever came close to gaining. I want Cam Wake to stay as long as he's productive.
Yeah, OV and DJ would have to put on phenomenal numbers for me to even consider trading Wake at this point, if I were the GM.
No f'n way, ever, never, no-day, should this guy ever be traded. He should finish off his career as a Dolphin, then sign on as a strength/conditioning coach. His intangibles are invaluables. OV wouldn't have had NEAR the year he had w/o Wake on the other side. Just my humble opinion.
And a list of what went through your head when you read the title of this thread. Mine was surprisingly printable; "What?!?!" in a high pitched, whiny voice.
Since I don't see the Dolphins making the playoffs until at least 2016, I would have no problem with them trading Wake for at least a second round draft pick. This would give them the opportunity to find out if Jordan can turn into a top tier DE in the NFL or not. If this were a playoff caliber team, I would not want them to trade Wake because I think he has a year or two of quality play left in him. I just don't see him still being an effective player in the NFL beyond 2015 and since I think it will take at least that long before this team is a legitimate playoff contender, I believe Hickey should see if any other teams are willing to offer at least a 2nd round selection for Wake while he still has decent trade value. If they wait until after the 2014 season to try and trade Wake, I doubt if they will get more than a 5th or 6th round pick at that time because of Wake's age.
At this point in Wake's career I wouldn't even accept a 2nd rounder. And to be perfectly honest it would have to be a top ten pick in a draft where there's legit DE prospects. If Jordan becomes 3 fourths of JT we still aren't set at DE. OV needs to prove he's a top pass rusher. The pressure is on him.
If you plan on gutting the roster, then it should be an option. Trading him now will essentially lose the team for you though. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
A 1 and a 3, minimum I do not see his wall coming anytime soon, the deal is acquiring resources and we have OV and Dio in camp, as soon as we drafted Dion Jordan Kraken's clock is ticking in Miami
This is a terrible idea. I doubt we'd find anyone to pony up a first for him, especially an early first so forget any talk of that. As someone above said he should retire here and move straight to coaching our young weapons in the gym.
The Patriots and Steelers knew when to cut bait in the past. But I don't think he's there yet. He still has a few years left.
What bothers me the most is when a great player's talent gets wasted. Especially a player like Wake. It's not really wasted as he's been a great player for the Phins and a great player for us fans to watch, but you would love to see him, at the very least, get a good playoff run or two. It's a shame. You could say the same for many great players around the league. It just stings me more when it's one of our guys. All hope isn't lost as of yet. I just hope he gets his shot whilst he's still in his prime.
It is more likely that Wake will break the single season sack record than he gets traded. Yes, of course, Jordan,Shelby,Vernon, will improve, and Fede might even be mentioned as well. This fact, along with the addition of Williams to the interior line, will result in teams being unable to continue to key on Wake. I also have always believed that Misi's best pass rushing would be done as a blitzer up the middle. If the officials would start calling half the holding penalties committed against Wake, he just might go Godzilla this year and terrorize the league. I have said this many times; nobody should mistake Cam Wake for a normal man. If there is a defensive player in the league right now who could play into his late thirties like a London Fletcher or Daryl Green, it is Cam Wake. Trading him would be beyond Stupid, and only someone with a depraved mind like Jeff Ireland could actually do such a thing. I would rather sign Ritchie Incognito and give the 49ers a 4th round pick to get Jonathan Martin back than trade Wake.
We have 3 Williams: Damian, Damien, and Stephen. WR, RB, and WR respectively. None on the Dline. Must mean Earl Mitchell.
Could be, though I don't see any facts in that post that lead me to believe offenses won't be able to slide their protections toward Wake, i.e. key on him.
I think what's missing as well is that a lot of Vernon's production can probably be attributed to playing opposite Wake. We've seen it with Ray Edwards recently.
I believe someone previously debunked this by showing teams weren't sliding their protrction towards Wake. Was late last season I believe.
I don't recall that, but I think it's hard for offenses to slide protection to either side with the propensity Miami has to show double A gap blitz looks and sugaring gaps pre-snap. That said, Olivier Vernon, on his own, is more of a hustle player than a pure pass-rusher. I think he benefited quite a lot from being moved around and being able to rush over guards and come through on blitzes and stunts. I'm interested to see just how long he can hold off Dion Jordan from being an every-down player if Dion Jordan is set to "explode", as Kevin Coyle put it.
Absolutely INSANE the percentage of those sacks he was blatantly held on. Ridiculous, NFL, ridiculous. Bring the scabs back...at least they're expected to suck.