I think Jason Avant is a pretty good comparison. He's not fast. I don't know of any 4.52's on record for Avant. He ran a 4.62 at this pro day way back when he came out. In his own words, Avant is "a crafty guy that gets open in an atypical way." That pretty much describes Jarvis Landry. The problem I have with comparing him to Anquan Boldin or Hines Ward is both those guys were brilliant after the catch. They're both former option quarterbacks. They know all about carrying the football and they were good at it. They had a lot of strength. Davone Bess was also good after the catch but not necessarily a good RAC guy amongst other RAC guys. He was the RAC/slot type, but not necessarily better than average for that type. That makes him a better comparison with Landry who is probably going to be a little worse after the catch than Bess. Truthfully Brandon Gibson makes a pretty great comparison...which is all the more reason Landry was drafted by Miami.
A vertical is great but the reality is guys hardly ever jump 36 inches straight up for balls. If the ball is three feet over a guys head its over. His vert is good enough to make the plays deep you expect a WR to make. That is what counts. People equate being giid down the field with jump balls and that is hardly ever the case.
I have the same concerns, and I know we don't know until he matches up, but it's fun to hear this stuff that kinda goes against where we view his ceiling.. A lot of this is relative, I can sit here and say I would of went in a different direction in the draft, but I'll just be happy if our GM can get a productive player finally with a 2nd round pick.. But I do get the challenge of being right on an evaluation.
I think the key for the kid will be route running (which includes improving his quickness in his breaks). He also has some toughness that could help him. He is bigger than Bess, but not as big as a Cris Carter; not as quick as Hines Ward but seems to carry that toughness. A second key will be how the routes are run in the new offense - in terms of creating RAC. If he's running comebacks, he's not going to make big plays. But, he could make some plays and eventually become a poor man's Boldin type player (though he'd have to get physically stronger; add another 10 lbs of muscle). We'll see. Great hands. Great attitude. Productive in college but the speed and the lack of a vertical (4.58 was the most reported 40 pro day time; but his vertical at the pro day was 31.5 - that doesn't bode well for explosiveness). He will have to work extra hard and show spectacular hands (Carter-esque) to become successful at this level. Rooting for him, though, for sure.
I hope he's better than Jason Avant that's for sure. Avant was a fourth round pick..that's the point here, his game needs to match his draft status.
For me it comes down to this. I absolutely cannot see Jarvis Landry NOT being a stud in the NFL because of lack of hard work, or knowing the game. He looked like a hard working WR who put the time in the room and the books coming out of college, and he appears to be that so far in the Pros. Maybe he doesnt cut it because of physical reasons....but you know what. Wont bother me in the slightest..cuz If Im gonna wager on a kid making an impact on my team, Landry would sure seem like a good bet. I think all we ask is....put your head and heart into it...and we as fans got yer back.
Bess had 800 yards with a raw Tannehill. Gimme 800 yards and 5 TDs and I would take that from the rookie.
Athletically, Brandon Gibson and Jarvis Landry are very similar. Height: 6003, 5114 Weight: 206, 205 Pro Day 40: 4.58, 4.61 Vertical: 34.0, 31.5 Broad: 9'5", 9'5" Shuttle: 4.54, 4.59 Cone: 6.94, 7.56 Only glaring difference is the cone drill but in my experience those agility drills are esoteric enough to throw out a major difference in one of the two.
For me I'm waaaay past using any type of measurable comparison when it comes to projecting Landry..he's not fast and he can't jump.
Myth. Jerry ran 4.4 according Gil Brandt and others. A lie told often enough becomes the truth, I suppose.
A quote from Brandt via San Jose Mercury News said he timed Jerry nine times and he never got under 4.55.
At a time when the faster players were generally running 4.45 whereas today the faster players are running 4.35... Also Jerry Rice was a pretty big receiver. Especially for his time.
http://cowboyszone.com/threads/gil-brandt-article-jerry-rice-almost-a-cowboy.27479/ I couldn't find the article I read before, but I did find another NFL.com article writtenby Gil Brandt (reposted on a message board). Gil says Jerry Rice ran in the 4.4 range. Was going to draft him before San Fran traded up for him. Jerry Rice at 40 was still playing and still productive. I don't care what kind of freak athlete you're, when you hit your 30's, you lose a step. At 40, you've lost more than one. If Jerry was running 4.7 at 22 years old, than you have to believe he ran 4.8/9 at 40 years old... Anyone seriously believe that? Bottom Line, Jerry didn't run 4.7. More to the point... Judging two WR's based on arbitrary physical measurables is irrelevant. Remember that time when Miami passed on Randy Moss in 1998 and Miami in turn drafted Larry Shannon in round 3? Jimmy Johnson claimed that Larry's measurables and times were equal or in some cases greater than Randy Moss. At any point in this paragraph, did you ask yourself "Who is Larry Shannon?" Yeah... 4.7 or no 4.7, Landry isn't Jerry Rice. He isn't Anquan Boldin. He's not Hines Ward. Landry is Landry. A skilled WR with limited measurables across the board. Hopefully, he has a successful career. We'll just have to wait and see.
Gil Brandt needs to quit contradicting himself then. I don't disagree with your rambling on about Landry and comparing measurables for the record.
For WRs, I don't think that overall size and speed has changed appreciably since the early 80s. There were big Harold Carmichael types. Speed wise, Mark Duper ran sub 4.3s coming out of college. He wasn't the only super fast WR either.
Some interesting observations here to go along with CK's comments: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014jlandry.php Also found these links: http://nfldraftgeek.com/underratedprospects.html And this one on a Ravens forum: http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/57651-overratedunderrated/ As with all of these, they're just opinions. YMMV.
There is a tendency on this forum for some people to get far too excited over how some players perform when they are running around in their shorts and not getting hit. Hopefully Landry will prove to be a solid #4 or 5 receiver for the Dolphins in 2014, but I don't expect much else from him. Rookie WR's generally don't come in and have real productive seasons in their first year in the NFL. Especially WR's who weren't taken in the first round. I don't ever see him being a solid #1 or #2 receiver for the Dolphins, but he could eventually take over for Gibson and become a quality slot receiver in a few years. If Landry can eventually give the Dolphins the same type of production Bess did while he was with the team. His selection is the draft would have to be considered a success.
That is a tendency on all forums. Stop being finicky. The reason why rookie WR's generally don't come in and have real productive seasons in their first year is their inability to run NFL quality routes or make NFL quality reads. WR's who have those qualities generally do have solid productive rookie seasons. Landry is the type of player who has the important qualities to be productive early on. I could see him take over for Gibson his rookie season. It is not like Gibson is that special.
Actually I thought Gibson was the most productive receiver on the team prior to his injury last year. He was Tannehill's go to guy in the red zone. He is much better than Landry at this stage of their careers. I admit I am finicky when it comes to heaping praise on players who have never played a down in the NFL and the only thing we have seen from them so far is them running around in shorts. You see Landry as a replacement this year for Gibson. I see him as a developmental player who will be the 4th or 5th WR on the roster. It is merely a difference of opinion, but I just don't see him getting much playing time in 2014.
I don't understand why people have the perspective of Gibson. He had 3 touchdowns in his last two games. The first five games he has had the grand total of 0 touchdowns. It remains to be seen if he is any better than Landry. Gibson is coming back from an injury and Landry hasn't played yet. We have seen him play in college. If you are going by last year Mathews was the most productive player out of the slot. Right now Gibson costs 3 million. Cutting him will save around 2 million. If this season is even a little successful Miami has players to sign and could use that 2 million. Coming back from injury, I just don't see Gibson making the team. I am confident that Mathews and Landry can replace him.
The shorts thing doesn't really apply here. The kid was one of the best WR in the country coming out of high school. All he did after that was produce in the toughest conference in college football. I don't think we will feel any different when the pads come on. He's not a #1 guy but can certainly be a #2. Especially on our team.
WR is a position where too many people get caught up in measurable physical attributes IMO Only thing I care about at the position is tape. What can and cant a guy do from the position on tape. I've yet to see tape that shows me Landry can't succeed.
Agreed about Brandon Gibson. At the time of his injury, he actually was behind Bess in 2012 , in terms of overall production. Not really sure what his value to the team is at this point. He's depth who doesn't play special teams.
This is my 1st post on here. Im from Louisiana and graduated from LSU. Been an LSU football fan all my life. Ive played, coached, and scouted all my life. I just want yall to understand the type of player yall have in Jarvis Landry. Hes the best WR we have had at LSU since Josh Reed, and I cant put Josh Reed ahead of him. He is that good. And I get why some people question what he can do because of his combine and all that. The combine doesnt tell the entire story. And we all love to see crazy 40 times and vert and broad jumps and all that. Im guilty of it as well. But, it doesnt tell the entire story for a lot of players. Put it this way: Odell Beckham Jr dominated the combine. Had some great times and measurements. But on the field, Jarvis was always better than OBJ. Always. OBJ has more limitations on the field than Jarvis does, but Jarvis doesnt test as well as OBJ does in shorts and T shirt. Whats more important? What you do in shorts and t shirt or pads and helmet during a game? What you do on the field in the games is all that matters. And Jarvis is 1 of the best we have ever had at LSU. And there are so many things that make him a great college WR and why he will be a great NFL WR. 1st its his attitude. Jarvis is like a dog with his back against the wall at ALL times. He is nasty out there and he wants the ball in when its crunch time. Hes as hungry as it gets. Ive seen Jarvis destroy return guys on special teams while at LSU. Ive seen him make crucial blocks to spring Jeremy Hill for a TD. Ive seen him make amazing catches and score TDs. And the best part about it is that he celebrates all of them the exact way. He doesnt have to have the ball in his hands to make an impact. But he will stand up and celebrate like he just scored a TD. He doesnt care. Hes a football player. Period. It just so happens that he plays WR and is great at it. He could have been a fine safety at LSU. No doubt about it. He also has a great work ethic. The way he works and practice, he will improve year by year. Its impossible not to when work like Juice. The reasons hes great on the field are: instincts and great football IQ(very polished), great GREAT route running ability, best hands in this past draft class ( 2.45% drop rate, lowest in this draft class by a large margin, only 2 drops all year), and hes as reliable and clutch as they come. No hes not a 4.3 guy, but hes most def fast enough and can go deep. His speed will not be an issue. And he has other attributes that allow him to play faster than he really is. He is really instinctive, great vision, knows how to manipulate defenders and set up his blockers, very quick and slippery, great balance, and can break tackles if you dont wrap him up. And I saw people in this thread say hes not that strong and that they are worried about what he can get to due to his "limitations" as a player. First off, hes as strong and as tough as they come at WR. He doesnt care about going across the middle or catching the ball in traffic putting his body on the line to make a play. He will do whatever is asked of him. And Ive seen him block LBs into their own bench before on run plays. Hes def strong. Not to mention he has the strongest hands ive ever seen. He was great in press coverage and beat some top DBs these last few years off the line. Hes smart, savvy, and physical. He knows how to use his body to his advantage. And to those that are worried about what he can get to.... if he can get his hand on the ball, he will catch it(notice I said hand, not hands, all he needs is 1). If he cant get his hand on it, then thats the QBs fault. 95% of all players have certain physical or athletic limitations. The only ones that dont are the freaks like Megatron, Julio, AP, JJ Watt, Joe Thomas, PP, etc. Almost all players have some type of limitation. And a lot of them are still great NFL players. All in all, yall are getting the steal of the draft. OBJ was drafted 12th over all.... and is a fine player in his own right. But I would take Juice(his nickname) over him everyday of the week and twice on sundays. Thats the type of player he is. If I had to compare him to other players, it would be a blend of Anquan Boldin and Steve Smith(Whoever said hes similar to Bess was WAYYYY OFF. Juice will have a better rookie season than any year Bess has had). I have called him a "mini Keenan Allen" in the past. They had similar paths to the NFL. Allen was a 5* Safety out of high school that converted into a WR in college. Was great in college, had a bad combine, people questioned and doubted him. What does he do in the NFL as a rookie? Was the top rookie WR by far and was 1 of the main reasons the Chargers were able to get that hump off their back and get into the playoffs. Jarvis never was a safety, but he is physical and nasty, had a outstanding college career, bad combine, people questioned and doubted what he would do in the NFL. LSU fans have no doubts that Jarvis is going to have a fine NFL career... some do question what kind of career OBJ will have. Yall got the better WR and in the late 2nd round... steal of the draft. And all of that is just his on the field stuff. He is a GREAT person that is extremely humble (he is confident) and does not have an ego and will not get in any type of trouble. He will be a fan favorite very soon. Jarvis will have a bigger impact for the Dolphins than Mike Wallace. He will help RT so much more than Wallace did and as a rookie. Tannehill is going to love Jarvis because he knows how to get open and literally catches everything that touches his hands. By Week 5 of the seasons, everyone will realize this. Everything yall are hearing about him from the coaches and media and players is not surprising to me. I expected him to do this and have an easy transition to the NFL. Whoever expects him to just be a #4 or #5WR this year is way off as well. He will the #3WR on the team at worst. He will be a "starter" by the middle of the year. Obviously being from Louisiana, the Saints are my team ... but I have always been a fan of the Dolphins and like what yall have going on down there. And then drafting Juice forced to me start following yall a big closer and pay attention to what yall do and how he does. In the past few years, he has been my favorite player (along with Tyrann). And I have seen some great ones come through there, and Jarvis is at the top of my list. Wish yall the best for the upcoming season and hopefully yall see me on here time to time. Cheers! Oh and heres something I thought yall would enjoy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x0gTJHMwF2k Sorry for the length... just thought yall should get the opinion from someone that has been around Jarvis these last few years and knows what he can do
Measurables don't win games. Football players do. Dude looks like a football player. The post above has a whiff of homerism to it. That's ok, I like that. If Landry provides the complement to Wallace which allows the team to be successful I'll be delighted. It's almost July, positivity wins every day!
" juice" it is. You know I don't think anyone is doubting whether he's going to be successful, for me it's about what level can he attain, you mention Keenan Allen, who I had as the 2nd best receiver in the draft last year ( not to many agreed then), Keenan was the steal in the draft as a third rounder, I want our 2nd rounder to have that kind of impact and ceiling, so it's a tough one when I compare the two, on strictly tape, I would take Keenan, but this dudes intangibles and some of the deceptive things he does with his body may translate well. Really eagerly anticipating the juice. Our whole team needs to play with juice..like nasty angry juice...no one has been able to inspire juice around here in a long time...this kid will probably get it done.
I dunno, but if you've seen this kid's tape, heard from his fans, listened to his interviews and listened to the players on this team......and you don't get excited about him, then I think you're dead inside Dolphins-wise and maybe its time for you to take a break for a bit.