I think.... if he never wins another title...you retire it. If he never wears #6 again...you retire it. Otherwise...IDK
Like I said it depends on what the Heat have in place to honor their past players. I recognize the difference between having a jersey retired and being in the "ring of honor" or "honor roll". The Miami Dolphins have 26 players in their "Honor Roll" but only three retired numbers (Dan Marino, Larry Csonka and Bob Griese). That would seem to suggest that the Heat shouldn't both retiring LeBron's jersey but rather should honor him some other way. But consider that NFL rosters are 53 players while NBA rosters are 15 players. Consider the Dolphins have been around since 1966 while the Miami Heat have been around since 1988. The numbers work out so that the 26-member Honor Roll of the Miami Dolphins essentially is the equivalent of a Miami Heat retired jersey. So if Paul Warfield, who really shouldn't be considered up there as the best football player of all time, is a member of the Miami Dolphins Honor Roll...why wouldn't LeBron James end up with a retired Miami Heat jersey? In short one of the best basketball players in NBA history played the very best basketball of his career in your town, achieved a feat (four Finals in a row, two Championships in a row) that a very few NBA franchises have ever achieved. You retire the jersey.
The Boston Celtics have 21 retired jerseys. The Phoenix Suns have 10 of them. The Portland Trailblazers have 11 of them. The Kings and Jazz have 9 each. If Miami retired all three of the Big 3 jerseys (which IMO it should), it's not as if they're overcrowding their rafters. I would suggest they just retire the number 3 for "The Big 3" but you know damn well Dwyane Wade deserves his own jersey up in them rafters.
Tim Hardaway is a bit of a different case as he arrived later in his prime and did nothing after he left. He and Zo (along with Riley obviously) were also responsible for the birth of the modern Miami Heat as a consistently good to great franchise. He also remained in Miami as a resident after that and remained involved with the team. He's also a redemptive story as he learned from and moved past his anti-gay comments. With LeBron it's strictly numbers based. We already had an all time great and hall of famer on the roster when he arrived. HE was part of a fantastic run, yes., but he alone decided that run was over.
The Heat honor players this way... Each year, they honor two players with a framed jersey and a photo..that ends up somewhere in the AAA. It is a "soft version" of a ring of honor. For example, in the Bar outside of Sec. 326, on the wall, they have the Jersey's of 96'-97' Starting Lineup of: ZO, Brown, Mashburn, Majerle, Hardaway. (considered one of the best Heat lineups ever, won 61 games, made the ECF's) The "BIG THREE" era can get a Bar in their honor at the AAA. That is a start.
I say we retire Joel Anthony's jersey. Big 3 weren't jack **** without The Warden. Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk
A couple of key differences in my mind. First, football careers are inherently shorter than basketball, so 4 years in football is "longer" than 4 years in basketball. Second, Warfield, et al left over contract disputes when the club clearly wouldn't pay them what they worth. The players got paid a relative pittance in those days, so I can't really blame them. LeBron left for less money overall when we were offering more and because of the nature of basketball where one player, particularly a player like him, makes an incredible difference, he alone decided that the Heat's run was over. Everyone else was coming back (and did come back essentially). But LeBron decided that there were more important things to him than making it to 5 or 6 straight Finals with the Heat. Such is his right of course, but when you make that decision, you accept whatever consequences might flow from it. In this case, retiring the number is the ultimate honor, and LeBron violated the ultimate Riley code. He chose not to "cement the forever bond" as Riley put it. All time great, yes. Greatest Heat ever? No.
But Warfield and Csonka achieved lofty individual honors, playing at stratospheric levels while they accomplished something that no one had ever done before. The Heat went to 4 straight finals, which is rare and great, but not unprecedented; they won two championships, which—again—nice, but it's been done before. LeBron didn't give us anything unprecedented. And, Csonka and Warfield were beloved by fans, and they seemed to return the sentiment; Bron, as much love as he got from fans here, it wasn't enough. And he was aloof; he didn't connect, especially like Csonka did. Retirement of a player's jersey, in the absence of historic achievement, has to be as much about who that player is to the community as how he played. That's why Shaq's number should never hang in the rafters. And neither should James'.
Similarly, there is nothing in the numbers to suggest that Udonis Haslem should have his number retired. Yet he will. And people who aren't fans of the Heat won't get it, just like people who weren't fans of the Cavs didn't get why Ilgauskas's number was retired. Haslem has meant more than the numbers. Heat fans get it. LeBron did not mean more than the numbers.
If the Heat are honoring two players per year in this manner, that's really not that much of an honor. If you have like 15 players on roster every year and the average Heat player is on roster for 4 years then basically you're saying LeBron James is only in the top 40th percent of Heat players. That would practically be an insult.
It would be real weird to see LeBron's jersey up there next to Wade's. Just on a gut-reaction level it wouldn't feel right. Should the Broncos retire Peyton's number? What if they had beaten Seattle coming off his best statistical year ever? No way. Just wouldn't feel right. The connection to the city means so much.
Peyton? IDK...gut reaction says no. Yet, clearly, he is a shoo-in hall-of-famer who led a pretty poor team (overall) into the Super Bowl on his arm. Tough call.
While I'm on the fence, I will say this. In 10-15 years after LeBron as arguably (or not so arguably depending on how many rings he gets) the greatest player to ever play basketball. It will be hard for the Heat not to want to get a piece of that and honor him. It does the franchise as much justice as it does LeBron to associate themselves with him in his prime.
In many peoples opinions, leaving the team where you've become a legend for nothing more than MONEY is way worse than leaving a team for the reasons LeBron left. I mean, the former is held up as the very MODEL of selfishness. Sure, you can position it very conveniently such that "the Dolphins wouldn't pay him what he was worth"...which is extraordinarily subjective and completely ambiguous. But the fact of the matter is he left Miami, where he was a legend and a champion, for a bigger paycheck. And that's usually considered so selfish as to be popular cliche. And Paul Warfield could have come back to the Dolphins after the WFL failed. He chose to go to Cleveland. As for everyone coming back...well, no. Ray Allen's not coming back. James Jones didn't come back. You can say that would be different if LeBron stayed. But I could easily say that Csonka and Kiick might have been swayed to return to Miami if Warfield had stayed. Who knows if it's true? And I don't particularly think the "everyone was going to come back" argument is particularly good anyway. The Dolphins still had Bob Griese, Mercury Morris, Nat Moore, Jim Mandich, Bob Keuchenberg, Larry Little, Jim Langer, Vern Den Herder, Bill Stanfill and Jake Scott.
Absolutely if Peyton gives them four years including a Super Bowl championship they will put him in the ring of honor. And as I've already shown that's pretty much the equivalent of basketball retiring a jersey. The Arizona Cardinals have Kurt Warner in the ring of honor.
4 years is not enough to have your jersey retired. It is absurd to think that the number jersey he wears in Cleveland will have any bearing on this decision.
I will go further than this. If in that amount of time LeBron is arguably the greatest player to ever play basketball, and he played arguably his greatest years in Miami, and Miami during that span was one of the greatest dynasties in NBA history (four straight Finals is a feat only two other dynasties accomplished)...then it wouldn't just behoove them to honor him in order to "get in on" LeBron's glory. It would look petty and vindictive if they DIDN'T do it.
I don't see anything wrong with the Heat looking vindictive. I think the argument "he was only in Miami for 4 years" is something reasonable people could disagree on. In 20 years, if someone asks, "why did the Heat never retire Lebron's jersey?" they could say, "he only played 4 years...and did you read the tell-all book Riley wrote after he retired from basketball? Did you read the chapter about Lebron's departure from Miami? No way they'd retire his jersey!"
It would look petty and vindictive, IMO. You can already see that people are trying to pretend that this was not LeBron James' basketball team during 3 of the 4 seasons (both championships). But it most certainly was and all of the players on those teams will tell you that. Just being objective. I think it would be embarrassing to not honor him.
Since I wasn't even born when Warfield and those guys left, I can't speak to what the reaction was. In 2014, understanding how little they got paid, and how cheap Joe Robbie was at that time, I give them a pass. As for the Heat, everybody that we truly cared about coming back has come back. Believe me, James Jones was not a priority. Ray Allen still might, or he might retire. Same thing he said at the end of the season. Except for LeBron. Even without Ray and James Jones, we would've been the favorites in the East again. The run did not have to be over. In fact, given the Deng scoop, we would've had the best of all the Heat teams the next two years. But LeBron had other priorities and other things more important to him. And that's great for him. If going home to Cleveland meant that much to him and was actually as important as he made it seem in that essay, then fine. But you lose out on the ultimate honor here. He left us high and dry and dangling for two weeks.Again, his right, but his actions have consequences. He did what was best for him but hurt other people, specifically the Heat, in turn. So yes he was and is awesome. The last 4 years were fantastic. But he walked out the first door and had probably been planning to for a long time. That's not a guy who gets his number retired.
It wouldn't be embarrassing at all, imo. While in his prime he personally chose to do his part to END a dynasty while it was in the middle of a historic run so he could play somewhere else. And the other two pieces of that dynasty stayed together to keep at it. Has a star basketball player ever done that before?
http://allball.blogs.nba.com/2014/0...pology-to-his-ohio-neighbors/?ls=iref:nbahpts Lebron has upscale bakery deliver cupcakes to his neighbors. “We know things have been hectic in the neighborhood these past few weeks and we are sorry for the chaos,” the note reads. “We are so thankful to live in this wonderful community and we are so blessed to have understanding neighbors like you. Nice Jesture
My recollection of when Warfield and the others left was that most blamed Robbie rather than the individual players or player greed. I would be fine with a softer honor than a jersey retiring unless Lebron were to return to the organization at some point. For me it's not about the accomplishments. I see a jersey retirement as something granted to a player who achieves "Heat for life" status. I just don't feel that way about Lebron. As I mentioned before, his time here felt like a business arrangement. For whatever reason, the emotional connection wasn't there. And before anybody claims sour grapes, this was something I said before he left and when I fully expected him to stay. I was in awe of his play and optimistic that Lebron could reach that level assuming he stayed, but he didn't.
The "two players" they honor are honored in very subtle ways. It can be as little as a single photo in a hallway. Just saying..the starting lineup of the 97' team got an entire Bar.
The Heat was the favorite to win the NBA Title next season when he left. You can argue whether they beat the WC champ or not, but I feel safe in saying that they would have made their 5th consecutive finals. A feat NEVER accomplished in the modern era (since the merger).
They might still. Until they prove otherwise, everyone in the East is a paper tiger. If Cleveland does manage a trade for Kevin Love, they should be favored...but not by me. Experience is what wins, and they don't have enough of it.
I'm not pleased with how/what LeBron left down here but I think he will be retired eventually... probably after Wade and Bosh and Haslem are up there. I get arguments for both sides, but at the end of the day being a part of that historic run and having 2 MVPs should probably be enough. This is all "loyalty" aside though. He absolutely does not get in if the Heat are doing it by loyalty. I think he deserves it for his play, but if he didn't get it because of how he dashed to Cleveland, I would understand.
Part of why I don't like Lebron being retired is I feel loyalty to the franchise should be a huge factor. Not just performance in a short time span.
Let Cleveland retire his jersey. Of course this is assuming he delivers the championship he owes them, that Dan Gilbert feels he's so entitled to. Pat and Micky most likely retire the jersey though. Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4
LeBron was a condottiere. He was an employee. He does not embody what the Heat are about and I do not want to see his number retired. Gave up a very realistic shot at 5-6 consecutive Finals appearances and let down our true Heat GOAT and his buddy who brokered the shaking off of his plague of monkeys that were emphatically sucking the wind out of his sails. Where is LeBron today if he doesn't have a championship at this point had he stayed in Cleveland? The ultimate choker? The Heat gave him everything he wanted outside of special treatment. He was part of the Heat TEAM. For a guy so dedicated to getting people involved he sure as hell does not come off as a team oriented guy.
When all is said and done I think this is going to be a silly argument and of course LeBron's jersey will be up there along with the other Big 3. Heat have been to the Finals five times. LeBron was the biggest piece of the puzzle in four of them, and the MVP in two of the Heat's three championships. Everyone's sitting here pretending like he had to have done it all by himself for that to mean something. I call bull sh-t on that. He was the biggest piece of the puzzle, the best basketball player in the world, the two-time league MVP, the two-time Finals MVP. People say having LeBron's jersey up next to Wade's would seem weird. But that's just reality. To me having Tim Hardaway's jersey up there next to Dwyane Wade's is weird. Having Udonis Haslem's jersey (as many propose) up there next to Dwyane Wade's is weird. Having Cedric Maxwell's jersey next to Larry Bird's in Boston is weird. Sh-t like that happens. Not all jersey retirees are created equally, and that's OK. In the end, you had one of the top five basketball players in the history of the game playing for you for his PRIME four years. He was (by a good margin) the biggest puzzle piece that brought you four consecutive Finals appearances and two NBA Championships, Finals MVP for both of those, NBA MVP for both of those years...and you don't put him up in the rafters? Fast-forward 10 to 15 years from now and that's going to look SILLY and VINDICTIVE. You can't even make the case that the guy was an a-hole while he was here. By all appearances (which are THE most important thing, by a long shot), LeBron was the complete opposite of that...an ideal teammate, an ideal spokesman, and ideal ambassador of the game, and the team's unquestioned leader. To deny this would look emotional and stupid. All breakups are ugly in some way. Rare is the divorce that truly creates no ill feelings. That said, the divorce between the Heat and LeBron has been a ****ing trip to Disney World. People just don't know it because it's still only been a few weeks, and they wanted more championships. You want an ugly breakup? LeBron/Cleveland Part I was a goddamn ugly breakup. That was slashed tires and restraining orders ugly. But even that breakup was mended over time. Fast-forward 10 to 15 years and I think this debate will look silly.
And I'm also gonna call BS on this remembered-through-the-completely-opaque-lens-of-40-years-ago account of Paul Warfield, Jim Kiick and Larry Csonka's departure from Miami being all roses and puppy kisses. I can tell that's bull sh-t. People were angry about it. I don't have to have even been alive back then to tell you that.
Some picking of nits.... He was the biggest piece of the puzzle for 3 of the last 4 finals trips. That Mavs series was that bad, and Wade was that insanely good that he merited a real case for being Finals MVP if it had gone to 7 games. As for being the leader, he was never team captain, but he absolutely took the reigns in that department the last 2 years. Wade's injury plagued 2013 and the maintenance program of 2014 was the opportunity for Lebron to assert himself. As for his jersey being retired, I don't doubt that it will, but the Heat will have a chance to make another championship legacy soon, and time/success can delay his jersey retirement. The thing he absolutely destroyed was his Statue legacy, and probably hurt Chris Bosh's as well. Now..Only Wade gets a statue to go along with a Pat Riley version. As a reference BTW, look at Wade's playoffs in 2010-11. He was ridiculous. (also look into 2012 and all his heroics) http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1987/year/2011/dwyane-wade
and BTW guys...Lebron has actually cost me MONEY with his move to Cleveland, so if there is anybody that should be bitter it's me, and I'm not. I do take a little delight with all the twitter people that always questioned my "fandom" for "hating" on him so much. I also have the distinction of indirectly having dealt with Rich Paul and the collection of morons Lebron has around him. But never bitter...just a transaction..we got as good as we gave. You gotta be happy with the transaction, even if there is a un-finished business aspect to this, which there definitely is.
