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New renovation gets approved, sunlife getting a facelift.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jun 17, 2014.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Here's a Sports Science video on it:

    [video=youtube;HpOUrsYtPH8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpOUrsYtPH8[/video]
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The previously mentioned soccer stadium has stands that are right on top of the field as you can see below, so the canopy there does a much better job of amplifying sound, funneling it onto the field, and containing it.
    [​IMG]

    On the other hand, look at this shot of Miami. Even if the canopy covers the entire upper level, notice how far away from the field it would be in comparison. It seems like it would still be too vast, open, and airy to sufficiently amplify sound and trap it outside of the times the stadium would be getting loud regardless.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Where did you get this $560MM number from?

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  4. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Thank you for the morning boobies. Much appreciated.

    We live in a shi**y sports town. When you have 3 of the top 5 NBA players playing on your team and the fans show up late, don't stand, don't cheer, sit down with 6 minutes left in the 3rd and leave with 5 minutes left in the 4th, it is a good indication of the pathetic nature of South Florida fans. Put the big 3 in a passionate basketball town and the home stadiums would be insane from tip to final buzzer. So let me ask you this, if you put Baltimore Raven fans, or Seattle fans in JRS, you better damn believe that place will be a lot louder with a distinct homefield advantage. Don't give me that OB 80's crap the demographics and fanbase of this team has changed significantly.
     
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  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Been saying the same things in all the previous stadium threads, the NFL is aware of what's happening in Seattle, their promoting the intimacy and experience of the smaller arenas, but once again we have a lack of vision here, when you hear Ross talk it's all about having a stadium that is the leader in technological advancement, he's always talking wifi and portable handheld devices..
    Then up you get the folks who don't get the building costs, they think Jerry world and they do the math thinking it's not feasible.

    You can build a stadium just like the link, with our own lil twists, and it wouldn't come near the costs..just like you said don't build a resort, build to intimidate, the fans will embrace it if they know what your trying to create..

    This paragraph below is what I ALWAYS try to get folks to understand, and how that impact the actual players emotionally, how it affects culture, the pockets of the owner, and most importantly, how it affects performance on the field...it's all worth it..it's all worth the extra investment now, cause the back end is filthy disgusting money.

    These physics also change behavior. “Fans get caught up in it,” says Stewart. “They experience an intense increase in the sound levels that they would not normally experience in an outdoor environment, and are energized by it.” As a result, they scream even louder.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's good to hear someone besides myself understand it completely and articulate it.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on the connection and what it does to a players performance, then the other side, which is our players ( dolphins and canes) and what they have to deal with..

    The other day I hear Marcellus Wiley talk about players who look into the stands and see empty seats and no energy...it just reaffirmed what I already know and have stated for years.

    If you don't think it affects them then your delusional to sum it up.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you have to consider their removing over 10,000 seats from the stadium, without moving stands closer to the action, any noise created from the roof probably evens out with the loss of voices.
     
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  8. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    makes sense

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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All those things are true, except that if you replace fan cultures with a team that has a strong one..

    Your not getting it Rush, I'm sorry, the distance creates apathy, that's the point, that's the point of what your reading in the quotes and articles..the intimacy makes you a different fan once you enter the building, just like sunlife does to it's fans, just in the opposite way..

    No one is saying that if you put a great product in the field the stands won't be full and people won't cheer, it's ALL about at what level of energy can be created in the two different venues and how the difference affects player performance differently..
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I wonder if that will also make tickets more expensive and harder to get. On the three times I've been able to see the Fins (one in Miami), I've always sat in the top half of the upper deck.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    not really, even when it's sold out there's plenty of ways to get tickets, lots of no shows..
     
  12. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    Wonder if some carefully placed mics and speakers under seats would create the illusion of a louder stadium and pump people up lol (kidding)

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  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    From appearances, less of a "roof" and more of an open frame and sun screen. Still susceptible to hurricane force winds, but not much isn't.
     
  14. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    How Belichickian of you... ;-)
     
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  15. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    Sounds vinny mac to me yo...

    [​IMG]

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  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    It's an estimated cost I saw somewhere. forget where.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Doesn't matter, what matters is a new stadium that rivals the link could be had for a lot less than a bill..there are so many spa aspects that do not need to be there..
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No way you could build a stadium like that for less than $900MM. It's simple math. The average increase in the commercial real estate index is ~5% annually. $430MM growing at 5% annually since 1998 is right around $900MM.

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  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I agree, Seattle or Ravens fans would make JRS louder. Miami fans being somewhat pathetic as a whole is all the more reason TO construct a stadium that can better motivate them and facilitate their involvement, right? What'd your teachers do in class when students weren't participative? They made everyone move up closer, brought the class in tighter, or sometimes even put everyone in a circle to get them to become more active and where it'd be more difficult to remain uninvolved. We have one of the least active, involved, and energetic fans in the NFL..... so what do we do for them with the stadium? -> we keep those apathetic fans as far from the action as possible and spread them out thinly across a giant stadium which is akin to a student sitting in the back of the room, and we stick them in a stadium that's poor to average for amplifying noise and containing it. On top of that we throw the stadium out in the middle of nowhere where it has no mystique of feeling like you're actually IN Miami. I can't think of a worse way to motivate less participative fans, can you?
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Just look at the elevated emotion and enjoyment Seattle plays with at home. It's tangible. They know it's a symbiotic relationship. The fans get them pumped up, and in turn they get the fans pumped up b/c they feel a sense of unity and oneness.

    Who knows, if Ross constructed a stadium like Seattle's, perhaps it would incite a core group of fans to get louder and more active during games. In turn, maybe that energy becomes addictive and gradually spreads throughout the stadium, and before we know it, those previously less active fans are attending more games b/c they're finding that games are more enjoyable when the energy level and participation is higher regardless of the team's record..... and then subsequently the fans who don't attend games start to get the itch to join the action. Just a thought.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ravens and Seahawks, it's no coincidence that the two venues are the two most intimidating and closest to the field in the NFL..

    Ravens stadium is an incredible design inside..very close stands.

    I will disagree in the point of our fans, I think any fans, wipe their slate clean, give them sun life and it will defeat them eventually..
     
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  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yup, that's how a venue creates the culture, and cash counting for life..

    Why are we doing this to ourselves..Ross and CO don't get it, for crying out loud their spending all the money on a roof and tv's, and how much is it gonna cost to replace 70,000 seats?, lol, they have no vision of what were talking about..were stuck..but at least he's doing something more then a lot of residents and officials were to brain dead to do.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    lipstick on a pig my friend. lipstick on pig.

    It'd be so fitting if our next sponsorship was Starbucks or Carnival Cruise Lines.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    shes all ours buddy..oink oink..

    See I respect Ross for bucking up in a hopeless situation, he knows how well it will impact the community and draw the big events, but I just can't believe it wasn't even discussed as an option when we know the glaring fundamental weakness of the venue.. I guess the events and Goodell are more important than competitive advantage.
     
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  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Jerry built his monstrosity for 1.2 billion b/c he knew what he was doing, so I don't see why the savvy developer Ross couldn't do a Seattle type stadium, which is bare bones compared to Jerry's extravaganza, for closer to 800 million.
     
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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He most certainly could...you can make the club seats and club section NFL spec worthy, but the rest could be done with brand new bare minimum materials, the most important element in the construction costs 0 money...0.
     
  27. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From my understanding, the issue is where do you put it?
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Cowboy Stadium cost $1.2BB almost 10 years ago. It would cost much more today.

    We are talking about an extra $500MM to build a new stadium. That is a boatload of money for someone to pay.
     
  29. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is that stadium that old already?
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They started construction in 05 IIRC. It took longer than usual to build I believe.

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  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes, but like you already mentioned- the commercial real estate index is increasing ~5% annually on average, so that $900 million new stadium today will cost roughly $1.8 billion in 2026. Ross's $350 million renovation is a merely a temporary solution not a permanent fix. How much time will that buy, and more importantly, which route presents a better ROI? Eventually a new stadium will be needed, a football stadium, emphasis on football. So let's say a dozen years from now the owner is staring down the barrel of a $1.8 billion new stadium. Add the $350 million already invested at he's at $2.15 billion. If Ross plans on sticking around, that's quite a future expense to worry about and be burdened with, and if he plans on selling during the next 8 to 12 years, that's a future cost his potential buyers will have to worry heavily about, leaving Ross with minimal negotiating leverage in the process. As it sits, his $350 million renovation will depreciate faster than a 7 Series BMW so he'll be getting little to no ROI if he decides to sell over the next 5 years.

    A new stadium might cost more now but would obviously save significantly over the long haul as well as bring a greater ROI, regardless if he keeps the team or not. So, $800 million now for a new and more appropriate stadium which will increase his yearly revenue from the time it breaks ground and will require minimal investment over the next dozen years... or $2.1+ billion for renovations AND a new stadium down the line? I know which one I'd choose. Ross paid $1.1 billion for the franchise but the stadium itself made little to no dent in that number since it's a future parking lot waiting to happen. He's upping the pot to $1.45 billion via his $350 million renovation, but the stadium is still a future parking lot. Now, the current value of the franchise is $1.07 billion and remains stagnant, so if he sells the franchise over the next 5 years for what he payed [since a future parking lot presents little value], he'll take a 24% loss on investment, and I doubt his yearly franchise revenue will be enough to offset $300 million. That's how I perceive it at least. A new stadium would go further to change that IMO. On top of that, sponsorships pay more for new stadiums don't they? Ticket revenue would increase with a new stadium wouldn't it? Attendance would increase which would mean more general game day revenue and less need to purchase seats to lift blackouts, no? The odds of hosting a Super Bowl would improve. To me it seems like this $350 million will forcibly lock Ross in for at least a decade thanks to its quick depreciation..... so he's probably still gonna be here when a new stadium begins to appear necessary. If Ross can donate $300 million to University of Michigan, I don't see where an $800 million new stadium would've been a piggy bank breaker.




    As far as the stadium cost debate goes, Minnesota's new stadium is set to run $975 million, and it's significantly more extravagant than Seattle's. 7 levels, largest clear ETFE roof in the world, climate controlled environment, largest glass pivoting doors in the world that open the west side of the stadium, and the capability to host more events than any other stadium in the world. Ross could hire his own team of trusted contractors and use his own developer/real-estate connections to get a Seattle'esque stadium for close to $800 million I bet.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Plus the money that comes in from the 12th man advantage, that's the real reason to build a new one, cause the design itself would eventually pay for the cost of building it..

    Seriously, think about how much MORE money the seahawk franchise is bringing in because of the wave that design started..?

    Advertising dollar inside, local tv contract ..season tickets, ticket sales, merchandise, ...exposure..millions and millions of FREE money being generated just by intelligent design.

    Thats what blows me away, they have the blueprint right in front of their freakin eyes.
     
  33. Arodgers12

    Arodgers12 Well-Known Member

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    Cowboys stadium is only 3 or 4 years old I think.
     
  34. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    It started today...I wonder what exactly are they doing now? Just Concourse improvements? Or the seating/video also? They're just removing seats from the corners and adding some to the sidelines...so maybe that will be done for 2014 as well as concourse.
     
  35. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Good news DJ. Stephen Ross said the lower bowl was being replaced when he addressed the media today.
     
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  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Doesn't that seem like a bigger deal than something that would take about six months to complete?
     
  37. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Article in the Herald today, said the canopy will be in place for the start of the 2016 season.
     
  38. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    It's a huge undertaking. I'm guessing the destruction and debris removal might be a 3 shifts, 7 days a week thing with plenty of explosives.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't believe it Taz, I don't see how you can keep the upper bowl and reconstruct the lower one..

    I think their gonna add some rows at the bottom of the lower bowl..paint them and call it a day.
     
  40. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box


    interesting, during Ross presser he specifically said that there would be a new rake to the seats. he said it a couple of times. I could see them remove the sideline seats lowest level to the top and then build out and up from the base to achieve that new rake.

    EDIT: Ross talks about the stadium at roughly the 2:30 mark
    http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...g-Season/fbf272ac-bff7-48f9-b3a6-954503806c90
     
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