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Dolphins Training Camp 2014

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Technically Oregon is a guinea pig too. They're rolling forward with all the same ideas. But I get what you mean. Can you do it in the NFL without Chip Kelly or do you just really need Chip Kelly.

    I kind of suspect the latter. I think you need a good coach that knows what to prioritize...what parts of the offense are necessary to exist and be called in order for it to succeed, and then what parts can be relaxed in order to fit the surrounding talent as well as the talent on the other side.

    There's also a puzzlemaster aspect to it because so much of an offense is actually just a series of individual game plans, and either you're going to find that way of neutralizing the player you need to neutralize while still getting to do what you want to do, or you just weren't creative enough to find that way. I suspect that's another area where other people trying to run Chip's concepts COULD fall short.

    It's also going to be about execution because I have a feeling that the response you'll see to this offense will involve a lot of man coverage, players crowding the line, and daring the Dolphins to run out there with their receivers and tight ends, get open in tight coverage, make physical catches with the ball floated up from a quarterback under duress, etc. How well you teach some of these concepts in practice is going to matter a lot.
     
  2. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Im not disagreeing..but I think thats way premature before we have even played a preseason game.

    I mean youve essentially just said..well we cant run half of what Lazor wants to run..based exactly on what?

    Where did old ways come in? Maybe he meant..we ran a route against that coverage last week and during the scrimmage and that worked..so well.just run that..
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Well first off Tannehill himself described that they already know throws that work against those certain coverages but that they were trying other things to see if they worked. In other words he's already familiar with how to beat a certain look. They tried a new way, and it didn't work.

    Bill Lazor has been an offensive coach for a long time at a lot of different stops, been an offensive coordinator before, etc. This idea that he drew something he's never done before up on a napkin and tried it in practice and this is the reason Tannehill threw those interceptions strikes me as a hope-driven improbability.
     
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  4. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not sure why you would describe it as hope driven improbability...and that he "drew it on a napkin"..I simply asked why deciding a play doesnt work is somehow being turned into...eh out goes half the playbook..and back to the old ways of our past.
     
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  5. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    You're both right.
     
  6. Linus

    Linus Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just don't think they'd make a final decision or determination on a play or set of plays without Wallace at full speed and minus Clay, arguably the best offensive player.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Or he has a dry sense of humor and he is joking.

    I only say that because in that situation it would be a joke I would make.
     
  8. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I see no reason to doubt Tannehill on his version/word of what brought about some of those picks. He's always seemed to be pretty honest as far as I can tell.
     
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  9. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Exactly. And RT wasn't even talking about a play he was talking about a specific route or route combo vs a specific coverage. They tried it vs that specific coverage and it didn't work so they're ovine on to other ways to attack that specifi coverage. That's exactly the kind of thing you want to find out in a practice setting.

    But haters gonna hate.
     
  10. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    I just want to know what about I didn't work... as in why was it a pick. It's not an arm strength issue. Is it a tight window situation where accuracy prevented threading the needle?
     
  11. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I know that I've done the exact thing in practice on teams I've coached (tried something I've made up or seen in a different league) just to see if it would work. But apparently the idea that Lazor, the allegedly brilliant an innovative offensive mind might have an original thought want to try an approach he'd seen elsewhere is completely far-fetched.
     
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  12. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Offenses have plays designed to defeat specific coverages, Cover 3, quarters, man, blitz beaters, etc.

    But what happens when you call a play designed to beat Cover 2 and you get quarters instead? Training camp is the time to answer those questions and if the cost is an INT and some negative press coverage then I'm fine with that.

    If you have 6-8 WRs vying for 5-6 spots and you want to sit your top 2 guys to help decide the issue then training camp is the time to do it. Backup WRs vs defensive starters may cause some ugly practice moments, I'm fine with that too. The goal is to prepare for the regular season not to look good in practice or get nice tweets from the beat writers.
     
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  13. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    IMO INTs can be caused by bad reads, bad throws or bad luck, from the QBs perspective. Sometimes it's the receivers fault, or the defender makes a great play. Down, distance, score, game situation are important too. You really have to break em down individually, I hate to see people pile on a QB for INTs bc it's often not his fault.
     
  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I know what you mean. You spend hours drawing up plays and then you see them on the field and it looks nothing like you imagined lol. Some of my best ideas totally flopped and then some things I thought would never work were actually quite effective. A good coach isn't afraid to try new and innovative ideas, you never know what's going to work.
     
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  15. Third Man

    Third Man Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Makes you wonder which players couldn't execute which plays/routes and why. That's the key question. Wallace and Hartline have been injured while the INTs have been piling up, right? Or has it only been Wallace who's been out? Could indicate it was TE thing, or an issue with the backup WRs while those specific plays were being installed....

    Hard to tell.
     
  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Impossible to tell.
     
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  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya it's really hard to guess w/o being there and knowing what's what. 2 of the picks were throwing to Cone, if that means anything. Isn't he like, 8th or so on the depth chart, if he's even on it?
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill could be forcing balls into a practice setting that he normally would never do in a game.
     
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  19. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Deej...forcing balls...

    Fits. :)
     
  20. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Thtas what camp is for Deej. In a real game RT might check it down, scramble, throw it away etc but in July-August you try stuff that you might not do in a game. Like shuffling the OL day to day, sitting healthy WRs, or whatever.

    I don't know whether to laugh at or sympathize with, people trying to draw conclusions from these practices.
     
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  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I went to a Heat game last year and guys were taking half court shots, fade away threes and all sorts of ill advised shots in pre game warm ups. Clearly they lacked the discipline to run an NBA offense...
     
  22. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]

    Oh no, T-pain threw three interceptions...





    [​IMG]

    Hey everybody, Tan Marino just threw three picks...





    [​IMG]

    In a F**KING PRE-SEASON PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!
























    [​IMG]
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't take these int's as regression..not at all, there are so many variables that go into int's during practices,players going half speed, taking undisciplined chances, working on fundamentals instead of trying to be accurate..rookies fu@&ing with the qbs timing, no gameplanning..

    My concerns or applause will happen when the season starts, and that is preseason, while there is no gameplanning, players are trying to execute.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    One brain fart, the rest chalk it up to experimental stuff where the offense isn't working at full speed but the defense is.
     
  25. Third Man

    Third Man Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Somehow I doubt the Dolphins would give up on something as an offense because of Kevin Cone's inability to do something.
     
  26. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Where did I pile on Tannehill?
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Personally, I don't care if my opinion is the same as Omar's, or not the same as Omar's.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yes, it is all we have and I like to read the tweets, but I prefer to not get too excited or too worried, based on the commentary parts of any specific tweet.
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Oregon did a pretty good job of running Chip's offense after Chip left.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    But not impossible to speculate every possible scenario, and then some.
     
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  31. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I've read more than a few times that some OCs have as many as 1000 plays in their master playbook, but by the time the season rolls around, they have it pared down to like 35 main plays. Could it also possibly be that they had a few plays they wanted to look at, possibly against a standard D they expect to face in the AFC East?

    It's not far-fetched to believe Lazor's final season playbook isn't even close to finished...he's with a new team, new capabilities, new restrictions, same playbook. The whole offense can't adjust to everything in his book...it's simply not possible. He has to be smart in reducing the main play structures to what fits, it's not that "plays he brought from Philly" may or may not work...he's got TONS of plays, from even before Philly, that he's considering and testing. Directly imitating Philly's 2013 playbook wouldn't be an option even if they could handle it...there's a full season of tape on that...there will be SOME variation at least...some plays go away...some get added...it just happens to be on a bigger scale for Miami Dolphins 2014.
     
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  32. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Point taken..I guess.what Im trying to say is throwing picks in practice is one thing..throwing them in games is quite another.
     
  33. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've become very disappointed with the Post. No Panther writer. Marlin's writer not sent to road games. UM and Heat writers last beat was both High School,and Abramson is very inexperienced on Fins' beat, how can these guys have any sources?? Hal Habib is a GREAT writer, but even he is newish to being a beat guy for the Fins.
     
  34. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed. No one works harder getting info out to the fans than Omar.
     
  35. EverFin

    EverFin Active Member

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    Agree with DL, DE and DB. But what about LB? Can we cover really good TE? That's for me the missing link to "one of the best pass D in the league".
     
  36. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Im sorry. I didn't mean you, or anyone else. Just in general I think QBs get too much of the blame when things go wrong and too much credit when the go well.
     
  37. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You can also use the S as the TE cover guy. And reality is that no LB can cover the really good TE. Most seasons the best LB will still allow around 50% of the passes thrown against him to be completed. That's just the nature of today's league.
     
  38. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    @AbramsonPBP 39m Heat index around 100 today. And it's going to be a fully padded Dolphins practice today.
     
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  39. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Some good news

    @AdamHBeasley 3m Knowshon Moreno has been activated of the PUP, per a league source.

    @AbramsonPBP 5m Dolphins RB Knowshon Moreno off PUP list, per source

    @AbramsonPBP 4m
    So that means Moreno will be returning to practice. Should be interesting
     
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  40. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    @gunnerhal 41s Jarvis Landry just burned Kevin Fogg for a 75-yard TD. So much for Landry's so-called lack of speed.
     

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