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Tony Stewart kills 20 year old after running him over on the racetrack

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Clark Kent, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    I grew up in on the short tracks and saw my share of sprint cars. Grew up with the WoO, best forum of racing in the world...IMO. My home track was a 3/8 high banks and just watching time trials made me poop my pants the first time I ever saw them. Never lifting off the gas, turn left, touch the brake and drift thru the corners. I remember as a kid, I would stand as close to turn 3 just as the cars were at top speed and, just OMG, awesome, thrilling.
     
  2. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Noone can know for certain why anything happens unless they are involved. That is why people piece together evidence the best we can to determine things like this.
     
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  3. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    I'm late to this, but here are my thoughts.

    * Unless Stewart made some statement that actually suggests he had an intent to harm (injure) Ward or we get some very convincing video from the opposite side of the track, there is no way this is going to result in criminal charges. There is a long-standing tradition that otherwise reckless conduct in sporting contexts is excused along the lines of essentially the law of implied contract. That hockey player who got prosecuted had a malicious intent that was outside the game of hockey. Unless they can demonstrate something like that, they're not going after Stewart for manslaughter or murder.
    * The most likely scenario if you ask me is that Stewart saw Ward at the last moment after the I think it was 45 who was right in front of Stewart barely missed him. Stewart was in that moment ticked off that Ward was acting that way over a clearly non-malicious tangle that caused the wreck, and he was intent on spitting mud/dirt up on him. At the speed in question there is probably a tenth of a second that separates doing that well from what happened here. He had just been going faster under green and spent time earlier in the day going faster speeds in his Sprint Cup car. This makes it an egregious accident, but it was in my eyes clearly an accident.
    * I think this reveals that safety in Sprint Car racing is way below the standard it needs to be. There were 7 deaths in US short track racing in 2013. One of them was Tony Stewart's friend Jason Leffler. In addition to the deaths, Tony Stewart caused a wreck that led to a pretty bad back injury for another driver and was involved in a second wreck that resulted in a compound fracture of his leg. He needs to retire from Sprint Car racing as long as he is racing in NASCAR. He should spend a lot of his energy working as an advocate for increasing safety in short track racing.
    * I think Stewart should offer to pay for the funeral and any related expenses (shutting down the #13 race team perhaps). I don't think he has liability beyond that, personally.
    * I think Stewart should seek mental health assistance with this incident and shouldn't return to Sprint Cup racing until he has dealt with it.
    * I think that all racing series should implement a rule that ends the season for any driver who exits their vehicle and attempts to interact with another car while cars are moving. If it's very late in the season, it should be a minimum 10 race suspension. This should never happen again.

    I am a relatively long time NASCAR fan who is semi-retired from caring about it. The first driver I cared about was Davey Allison, and we lost him way too soon. I rooted for Bill Elliott for a while until Jeff Burton came along. When he pretty much hung it up last year, so did I. It is possible that the younger set of drivers coming up like Jeb Burton, Chase Elliott, and the Dillon brothers will spark renewed interest. I recognize that Tony Stewart has as much talent as he has immaturity, and I think at this point I am long past the notion that he will ever grow up. I don't think he's a particularized danger to anyone in a way beyond what is acceptable in a racing context. I do think it likely if he were more mature he wouldn't have even been out there, much less would he have put himself in a position where this ended up happening. I would assign culpability for this probably at 33% Stewart and 67% Ward. That's how I see it.
     
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  4. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Go ahead and try to tell Tony to back off some racing....lol
    He's living his life, his dream, it's nobodys biz to tell Tony when he can or can't race. People throughout the world respect Tony for who he is, not what some people think he should be...
     
  5. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Some proof of respect was when he got hurt last year. It seemed like everybody from every form of racing sent him "get well" wishes. If he was a a$$ like some people on here think he is, he wouldn'd be so well respected.
     
  6. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Attempting to race today and particularly Greg Zippadelli's statement about it being "business as usual" were incredibly wrong. I don't think NASCAR has any business expecting more than Stewart submitting to a physical and a talk with a psychiatric provider and insisting they both clear him to return if he is determined to race next week. I just think it will be a mistake for him personally in the long term. He killed a man yesterday. That's an incredibly traumatic event.
     
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  7. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Why do you have a hard on for this guy?
     
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  8. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    There was nothing reckless about Stewart's driving. It was plain murder with malice. Formula 1 drivers avoid full cars in the middle of the road at full speed, Stewart made 0 attempt to avoid a man.
    There is no protection in law by "implied contract" for that kind of behavior. Accident? It would have been an accident had Steward steered off avoiding the man and killing another off road while sliding. That's an accident. What the video shows is not an accident, or reckless driving, it is murder with malice.
     
  9. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Formula One drivers don't always avoid cars, and they're driving very different machines in very different contexts with very different assistance (spotters). If your contention was accurate, there would be no reason to risk striking him with the very back of the vehicle. Stewart could have easily hit him head on. I have yet to see any legal authority or racing expert argue this was a murderous act.
     
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  10. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Lol
     
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  11. JShady

    JShady Miami Heat lover

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    If words can get you banned from the sport you are in then so should murdering someone on the track, no jail time but ban Tony Stewart from racing for life.
     
  12. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    JJ, Tony did help design a new type of Sprint car while he was laid up. The car he now drives is that type. FYI...
     
  13. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Btw, this happened in NY. Didn't know NY was redneck country...lol
     
  14. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    The question is still "Did he try to scare/show him up"

    If the answer is yes, he is guilty of a crime. Period.
     
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  15. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It is obviously possible Stewart tried to scare the kid, and ended up killing him. If so, he should be prosecuted and sent to prison for manslaughter. You don't honestly feel that Stewart's intent was to kill the kid though do you? That is the only way he is charged with murder.
     
  16. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have to disagree with Jimmy that Stewart couldn't be prosecuted. We need to see what evidence develops. What's on the camera from Stewart's car? Is there tape of the audio between Stewart and his crew? Were those things tampered with?

    Intending to "buzz" a person on the track with your car is outside the normal dangers of the race. While Ward shouldn't have gotten out of the car, the other drivers all managed to see him and avoid him. That leads me to believe that Stewart intended to do something. And since that something resulted in death it's a crime.
     
  17. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Ward also advanced on Stewart and was the one with clear intent here. And in dirt track racing, throwing up dirt/mud is part of what racers do.
     
  18. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Clear intent to what? Yell at Stewart?

    The guy in the car has the ultimate responsibility. If a pedestrian crosses against the light, you still can't just hit them. You have to try and avoid them.

    Also, wasn't the caution flag out, which means slow down until the wreck is cleared? Well, Tony chose to speed up coincidentally right where the guy was standing.

    We'll see what the evidence ultimately looks like.
     
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  19. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Intent to advance on him to express his displeasure. Perhaps he was planning to throw this helmet. That has happened a lot.

    The rules of the road and the rules of the track are not remotely the same. Track rules would dictate drivers who are out of contention have a duty to remain clear of the racing.

    I think it's clear he sped up to throw up dirt/mud or in an attempt to avoid Ward. Either way there isn't an intent to harm or to exceed the accepted racing conduct.

    I find it unlikely there is much more evidence. We have a video plus an eyewitness closer to the incident. I will certainly re-evaluate if more comes to light.
     
  20. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I agree with this. If you move your car at someone in an attempt to show them up and hit them, it is a crime. Same way that if I get mad at someone and wave a gun at them accidently firing....its a crime.

    The car is a weapon and he used it recklessly if in fact he saw him.
     
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  21. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From what I've heard/seen of the expert analysis of the incident the consensus has been his actions were not the ones allowed to be taken under a yellow and ones that would explicitly cause him to hit someone he would have otherwise missed. If his team told him that there was a yellow flag and that the kid was out on the the track, (and they should have, right?) then I don't see how his willfully ignoring the rules and knowingly endangering the kid doesn't make it a criminal act. If an NFL player takes off his helmet and throws it at someone and they die, there are no questions as to the criminality of that act are there?
     
  22. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why would you need to speed up to avoid Ward? If anything, you should slow down further, like everybody else managed to do.

    I think that at a minimum, Stewart acted negligently, which is potentially negligent homicide under NY law. And he is going to have a hell of a time during the inevitable civil case.
     
  23. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    His team? This is a sprint car race on a dimly lit track. I see no reason to think anybody gave the drivers any notice. The 45 right ahead of Stewart sure didn't have any from the looks of things.

    Throwing a helmet at somebody is cause for ejection but is within the parameters of the game. No prosecution. It's like if Roger Clemens got ejected for head hunting and the guy he hit died from a brain bleed.
     
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  24. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Depends, but a player could be prosecuted for taking off his helmet and beating another player with it. That goes beyond the normal risks of the game.

    I think there was some question or discussion of Albert Haynesworth's potential liability after he stomped Andre Gurode but nothing ever came of it
     
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  25. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Completely disagree. Intentionally taking off your helmet and assaulting somebody with it is not within the parameters of the game. In football, you expect to be tackled and hit hard during play. You don't sign up for a maniac wielding his helmet like a weapon during a play stoppage and trying to beat you up.

    Baseball is a little tougher because getting hit by a pitch during play is part of the game. Though if you could prove that a pitcher intentionally threw at a guy's head with malicious intent, it's possible you could make a case
     
  26. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    This is dirt. It's like driving in snow/ice. Often your best option for control is maintaining speed. Sometimes it is hitting the gas. Rarely is it braking. Note Stewart had been out of sprint cars for almost a year before he got back in one last month.

    Ordinary negligence isn't nearly enough for prosecution based on the long standing tradition attached to sports. Hell, Sterling Marlin was negligent in hitting Dale Earnhardt who died as a result. Is he sitting in prison? Did any credible authority even contemplate it?
     
  27. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks for the information guys. I didn't realize how much leeway sport gave. Is there a difference between pro or not? Would a pick up game actions have less protection?
     
  28. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    If you elbow a guy playing dirty in a pick up game and he cracks his skull when he goes down my belief is you likely would not be prosecuted. It's important to note this is much more social contract than precedent.
     
  29. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Two race cars driving at full speed are inherently at risk of crashing. When you choose to race, you accept the risk that you might crash into another car and get seriously hurt or potentially die.

    You don't knowingly accept the risk that if you leave your car after a wreck that another driver might intentionally "buzz" you but get too close and kill you.
     
  30. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Getting elbowed while playing basketball is part of the game. If the same guy then jumps on top of you while you're down and starts punching you in the face, that's a crime.
     
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  31. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Ward accepted precisely that risk when he violated well established racing and safety protocol if not explicit track rules by introducing himself onto the racing area.
     
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  32. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Even if there's some comparative negligence, that doesn't completely excuse Stewart.
     
  33. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Cuz 'Merica......
     
  34. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    I put the % at 33 Stewart 67 Ward. What rule does New York follow? Pure comparative?
     
  35. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    How is there not major punishment for guys going on the track on foot with cars still on it? The "people do it all the time" defense doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

    One thing to note is that Ward was specifically searching for Stewart's car. Ward was getting out of the way of other cars but trying to find Stewart - think about how hard it is to react to someone on foot when you are in a car. They can move and change directions so quickly it would be extremely difficult to know which way to go - especially in these cars on that track.

    Not to mention there were cars coming behind Stewart at normal speed. So if he slows way down and makes a dramatic turn to get out of Ward's way, he runs the risk of getting hit and running into Ward.

    I'm guessing he tried to speed up to get the hell around him and didn't anticipate Ward would be so aggressive in approaching a moving vehicle.
     
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  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The thing that I think is going to be hard for Tony to explain is why he gunned his engine in that fateful moment.

    There are witnesses that will testify that they heard him do it. There's some suggestion he did it on the video. He'll probably have to fess up to that much. It goes against the rules of what to do under the caution flag.

    What he'll probably do is try and explain that it was an instantaneous reaction to suddenly seeing Ward on the track and that he was trying to drift around Ward. It will take racing experts to tell whether that's a fitting reaction. I suspect not.

    I would handicap in favor of the Ward family winning a wrongful death lawsuit. And if that did happen there would have to be quite a few third party observers sitting back and asking why NASCAR is allowing a guy to continue to race who was found in court to be negligent in a death on the track.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Also with the rumors out there that Stewart had a GoPro installed and the police trying to secure it, that could come into this and be a considerable factor in the investigation. If there's any recordings of the conversation between he and the pit crew that will play heavily into it.

    One does have a very hard time imagining that the pit crew wouldn't tell Tony that there's a caution flag and a driver out on the track.
     
  38. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Serious question -

    Was this race sophisticated enough that he'd have had spotters and a pit crew in his ear? The video is so grainy it gives it a "state fair" kinda feel so I wasn't sure if it was actually a larger event.
     
  39. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    No, this was a tiny event with poor lighting. The series requires dues and is a club. The rules do not mention spotters at all.
     
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  40. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Definitely sounds to me that Stewart gunned it to possibly scare him and possibly misjudged how close he got because you can see in the video he over corrects after making contact. Although I wish there was another angle from behind his car. Also too bad the amateur camera guy follows the car ahead of Tony at first.
     

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