1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is it time to face reality??

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Seriously...yall are really gonna look back at this thread and have a chuckle in November.

    Team is fine...Tannehill is fine...but Ill wait till then to say I told you so
     
  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,224
    36,965
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Basically what Omar said is exactly how I feel. Tannehill needs to step up as he is struggling but I still believe we can win with him.
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  3. pmj

    pmj New Member

    381
    168
    0
    Nov 1, 2010
    To me, yearly stats of 30ish tds and half that in picks, while being able to make all NFLs throws, is my criteria. You can easily win with that if the rest of the team is talented.

    I think Tanne is capable of that. Too many here seem to think if we just try draft someone new, well get the next top 5 QB. Even Winston is throwing a few wtf throws a game vs good teams...
     
  4. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    This is what I've been telling my friends. It is so disheartening because this isn't something that you can coach up. Hard to get over accuracy problems.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Yes, we can win with him...proved that last year. Question is, can we be a legit candidate on a yearly basis with him. I dunno
     
  6. pmj

    pmj New Member

    381
    168
    0
    Nov 1, 2010
    Thats pretty much exactly how I feel too. All you can do in that situation is to draft competition yearly.
     
  7. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    I think if you watched the SD vs SEA game, you'd get some insight on how Wilson would perform if forced to bring his team back by throwing downfield...a quick 4 and out with the game on the line.

    So much of this game is scheme, playing with a lead, getting solid protection, establishing a running game and receivers getting open and catching the ball.

    It's too difficult to say if a QB has it or doesn't have it.
     
    resnor likes this.
  8. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,224
    36,965
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    It's fine to question it. I just think it's too early to give up on him like so many already have.

    On week 2. Lol
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  9. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    i can think of 8 passes that tannehill has thrown in the last two weeks that should have been tds.

    1. Int over the middle, Wallace wide open last week. on ryan
    2. Wallace sideline out of bounds. on both Ryan a mike.
    3. Sims late pats game. On sims
    4. The misplaced ball to Mathews in the end zone today. on ryan
    5. The very next play over threw Gibson. On ryan
    6. The swing pass to miller vs the pats that miller caught falling down. On ryan
    7. Over throw of Matthews today late in the game. On Ryan.
    8. Drop by hartline, on hartline.

    9. Probably not a td but the under throw over the middle to Wallace today was another huge missed play. On Ryan.


    So of the 9 big plays we have left on the field these past two game. Two were on the receiver, one was on both the receiver and QB. The other six have been on the QB.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    As long as you can also say, "I was dead wrong", in November, then nobody has a problem with that.
     
  11. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    You know... Brady is the only good QB in the afc east. The rest are avg at best
     
  12. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    Like i said...QB is the harder position. Not every pass is going to be there. It happens in every game to every QB.

    The reality is Sims has to make that catch, Wallace has to get that second foot down and Hartline well...what can be said about that. Those plays are made and we are not talking about deep throw issues. But we'd still be 1-1 though.
     
  13. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    I will call it now as well... Avg team... Avg QB... Avg head coach...
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    The deep pass to Wallace today as well....where he went from a full sprint to a dead stop to defend the pass. I'm not sure if that's what you were counting in #9, but that one was probably the easiest TD throw of the season. Just float it out 10-25 yards deeper and let Wallace do the one thing he's paid for....run under the football.
     
    MAFishFan likes this.
  15. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    seattle is just a different team on the road...
     
  16. pmj

    pmj New Member

    381
    168
    0
    Nov 1, 2010
    #2 has been beaten to death but I feel it was a great throw on the run and I was impressed in real time.
    #4 was just a decently placed ball, coverage was tight. An exceptional throw may have done it.

    Dont remember #7. I do remember an over throw to Matthews but not for a td.

    Can we not make a similar list for most QBs though? Brady had a handful of horrible throws in game 1 alone.
     
  17. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    It's too simplistic of a view point. Wilson is rarely asked to make those tough NFL caliber throws and today he got his chance with his team down and he promptly went 4 and out. Luck threw 7 int's in 2 playoff games and also has ball placement issues, RG3 was playing poorly before going out and Weeden's already been cut.

    Not everything is wonderful with the class of 2012. Sometimes you have to ride through these rough spots.
     
  18. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    So sims, Wallace and Hartline have to make their plays but Ryan doesn't? Why does he get absolved of blame for the six plays he missed?

    honestly, I totally agree with you that his receivers need to make plays.. I get that, they need to make those plays... IMO, I don't think any QB makes all the plays Ryan left on the field. But I think Ryan needs to make at least half of those.
     
  19. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    one thing you will never see me have an issue with is saying I was wrong....I can eat crow like nobodys business....
     
    Hiruma78 and Colorado Dolfan like this.
  20. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    Yes and he was asked to only throw 22 times today. QB play has been average to start the year - it's not just Tannehill.
     
  21. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    One question....

    How can anything be labeled reality......two games into the season?
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  22. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    I think we are talking about the same play... I am not sure Wallace scores if he makes that catch... Would have to look at it again.
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Some of those are arguable, IMHO, but ya...he's been off far too often.

    However, you take away some of the drops and we have a shot to win. Take away ALL of his miscues (which is a bit of a reach, since no QB is accurate on all throws) and we have a shot to win. It was a complete fail on the offense and STs, and partial on the D for letting Watkins roam free all day.

    Couple that with some poor game management, and ya...smoked.
     
  24. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    Of course he doesn't get absolved of criticism but no QB makes every throw. Tannehill looked today much like Brady looked in week one. That much pass rush with that few rushers makes every QB look average.

    But when your QB is under that much heat (causing happy feet and misfires) Miller, Clay and Hartline x 2 have to make those catches.
     
  25. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    Not going to get into #2
    ball placement on #4 was about a yard or more behind Matthews. He leads him it is an easy td, no way the db makes that play.
    not going to get into a Brady vs Tannehill debate.
     
  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I have a feeling...once people actually go back and watch the game again.....and we get to see all of his throws and break them down....people are not gonna think he sucked nearly as bad as he did
     
  27. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Sims, Wallace and Hartline need to run their routes and get open. They won't get open every play, so there's that. But when they are open and the ball hits their hands...YES...they SHOULD catch it!

    That's why I say it was an overall Offense failure, including drops, bad throws, missed blocks, line play, all inclusive.
     
    MAFishFan and mroz like this.
  28. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    One thing I will say is that this was a highly emotional game for Buffalo - Wilson's death, the sale of the team with uncertainty re relocation and Kelly's recovery from cancer. There's no way we could match that emotion so I'll just chalk this one up as being one of those games.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  29. pmj

    pmj New Member

    381
    168
    0
    Nov 1, 2010
    Idk I guess we just disagree on #4. I don't think it was behind him at all. It was a normally placed ball when someone is crossing, much like the ones Watkins was catching all day. It just needed to be way out front so he doesn't slow down at all.
     
  30. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    In that case, Philbin should get all the blame for the loss today. He is the person who hired Rizzi and all the other coaches and was the head coach when Tannehill was selected in the draft.

    Unfortunately this was such a bad effort by the entire team and coaching staff that everyone deserves their share of the blame for the mess up in Buffalo today.
     
    mroz likes this.
  31. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    never been a huge fan of luck...

    Wilson... The guy has over 100 career QB rating... If Ryan was over 85 we probably wouldn't be having this discussion
     
  32. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,043
    22,765
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    not sure playing Moore is any better option just because he had a couple of good series in the preseason. Might as well keep pushing Tannehill through the season. Not like Moore is taking us to the promised land.
     
    mroz likes this.
  33. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,849
    24,333
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    i don't disagree with anything you wrote... The only thing I will add is that when the receiver break wide open the QB has to get them the ball. Of the plays I pointed out there was no one any where near the receiver (except the Matthews one). The QB has to deliver the ball.
     
  34. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    The point I was making regarding Wilson was that he runs one of the most QB simplistic schemes I've ever seen. Not to mention always playing with a lead or within a few points by having an all time great defense. He'd better have a 100+ QB Rating. But when faced with situations where he has to throw from the pocket we see a different QB. As we saw today with the game on the line.
     
  35. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    He certainly missed some ya...his receivers let him down too. Collective failage.

    A few of them sacks were on him as well...can't take those...
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,612
    67,493
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Were trying to figure out here if we have a Qb who can go on the road in a playoff situation so Forget everything, the stats, the drops, the defense, the coaching, what do your eyes tell you about the QB..?

    Where is the feel for the game if the first read is not there, where is the quickness in the lower body, I don't see consistent touch on throws that require touch, I see poor arm slots and arm mechanics on screens, I see very very little ability to improvise and make a play, no conscious movement to run for first downs, it's been 2 years and two games, how many times are we gonna wish for him to use his legs, and where is the ability during a play, to recalibrate the mind, slow down, and find an alternate outlet.

    at this point, he is a strict drop back Qb with poor pocket skills, poor touch and very very little ability to improvise..That being the case you better be real good from the pocket if your gonna be a winning palyoff caliber Qb, which is not the case at this point..

    His last four games have been sub par..and now he's in his own head, if you watch the early deep throw to Wallace you will see him completely adjust in his mind, to his arm, the touch and trajectory of the throw, it was a real bad throw by a pro Qb, he's got to just relax and throw the football man..lol, I mean that throw was brutal..
     
    keypusher, jorser, MrClean and 4 others like this.
  37. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

    1,997
    1,014
    0
    Jan 1, 2009
    The issue with those sacks was that the pressure came from the front 4 with 7 dropped into coverage. Had he thrown in those situations it likely would have resulted in picks.
     
  38. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya it looked sluggish and tentative when he made that throw to be honest. He did make a few moves in the pocket to make some plays...but he also took a few sacks he had no business taking.

    And you're right. This is 4 in a row with a lot of bad play. We need to see better, soon.

    And I'm absolutely done with Miller...close to it with Philbin....just a side note.
     
  39. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

    553
    154
    0
    Aug 17, 2014
    Good post. I think you can put the entire thing under the umbrella of "command of the position." He doesn't have it.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,612
    67,493
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I can't disagree with that, they truly have a real home field advantage if they figure out how to do it consistently, they have the venue..however I'd like to see better Qb play.
     

Share This Page