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Questions for tannehill detractors only.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Lol agree to disagree bro.
     
  2. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    There is the disconnect right there. Because that's exactly what Tannehill's coaches have said thus far, that he's better off learning to throw from the pocket instead of relying on his legs and his coaches have been willing to take their lumps short term hoping it will pay off down the road. You say you don't know why they don't run Tannehill more, the answer is right in your face.

    As Fin D pointed out, Seattle has taken the opposite approach, playing to Wilson's strengths from day one. Two situations, two players, two different approaches.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I was comparing the two to each other not to every other QB in the history of the world. That misinterpretation is on you, not me.
     
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I never said any of that about Wilson. All I was doing was explaining what the argument started as instead of what it has morphed into.
     
    resnor likes this.
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've always given them that option as to why they did what they did, so i don't need it in my face, i get it, I also think it was the wrong approach and have said so many times so your not enlighting me.

    why are you talking and comparing ryan to wilson right now, you wanted to tell us how overrated wilson is, go ahead and continue.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i know you didn't, didn't say you did, thought you would understand..
     
  7. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I hope you are using that rear view camera while backtracking so fast.
     
  8. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    lol I am trippin...You literally just said in your previous post that you don't know why they didn't use his legs more. Sarcasm I guess.

    I never said Wilson was overrated. I said he is not elite aka on the level with Rodgers, Manning, Brady etc. That's not a controversial stance.
     
  9. Linus

    Linus Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think he was getting used to the new offense and things had to slow down a bit and get more natural feeling in the first couple weeks. I think he has been better at scanning the field in the past than he was given credit for, but the line play was so bad he was getting hit by 4 players half the time he dropped back. Pocket presence may not be his strong suit yet, but it's hard to have any when there's no pocket.

    He has been stepping up, using his eyes better, throwing screen passes A LOT better the past 2 weeks, adjusting his arm/throwing angle in certain situations, better footwork, etc. Everything comes together a little better when he gets on the move. I think after the Saints game last year, with the fumbles and all, Philbin had him on a shorter leash the rest of the year.

    But, why you get an ex-WR that turns into an NFL QB that has real accuracy skill......and then try to make him a non-athlete is beyond me. He's not the quickest, but there are times when he is nearly outrunning everyone on the D except their fastest DB. For his faults (and what our own fans have said/thought about him) he is one of the most unique players in the league IMO. Could he be the best "option" QB in the league? I think Kaepernick and Wilson are better running with the ball, but Tannehill is getting closer, has possibly more arm talent, can literally break tackles at times, and at times looks like #2 behind Rodgers when it comes to throwing on the move. Is that possible?
     
  10. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I already said that my analysis isn't based primarily on numbers. It's based on watching him play. You keep bringing up these team oriented stats as if they apply only to the QB while claiming not to. Make up your mind.

    Wilson only throws about 25 times per game so if he nets 200 yds that's an 8.0 YPA. You can slobber over 8.0 all you'd like but in today's game throwing 25 times per means you're running it very well and playing good D. How many times has Tannehill thrown it 25 times or less in a game over 38 starts? Once. The Jets game where he was injured in the 1st quarter.

    Wilson is very efficient, no denying that. But efficient and elite are two different things and when you turn on the tape he just doesn't compare to the elite QBs in the NFL. That's only a knock on Wilson for people who think he's Rodgers/Manning/Brady good and those folks are hella confused imho.
     
  11. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It's pretty clear that you consider every single QB stat to be a team stat. On that we can agree to disagree.

    An 8.0 YPA shows that he is making the most of his passing opportunities. Not sure what else you can ask for. Also not sure what the relevance is of the number fo games where Tannehill has passed less than 25 times. While you seem to think passing less makes it very easy to be efficient, the correlation actually goes the other way. You typically see the greatest passer efficiency on QBs who throw a lot. Whether throwing a lot increases efficiency because the QB can get into a groove and is an in offense that emphasizes the pass or whether teams with very efficient QBs tend to throw more can be debated, but there is little evidence that throwing less tends to make a QB more efficient.

    Wilson is different from most of the "elite" QBs in terms of his style of play, but he also has far less receiving and pass protection to work with than the others. And if you want to say he's not on the Manjning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers level now, that's fine, but he's far beyond where they were at the same stage of their careers. The bottom line is that he gets the job done and done well.
     
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  12. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Tired of debating Wilson with people who obviously don't ubderstand the Seattle offense, their scheme, the types of reads he is asked to make.

    We will all never agree, lets just drop it. Because I respect the opinions of manybi disagree with on this.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you mean you have never read when I've talked about why they haven't been using ryans legs for his first two years?

    I've always claimed since he was drafted, that the read option and purposely running the football needed to be part of his repertoire or else we wouldn't see the the complete package the best version of himself, so when it obviously was not happening the first two years i and others listed reasons, one of those reasons was this was a teaching principle of shermans so that he could become the best pocket qb he could become, first, lots of us talked about this ad nauseum.

    it was a philosophy that i did not prescribe to but always left room for the excuse for ryan as to why he wasn't doing it...I sincerely hoped it was the reason, i hoped its was why we saw the lethargy, the hesitation and lack of anticipation..however the lack of anticipation was so bad under pressure that it didn't make sense to me to just forget winning the game forget game planning with your qbs full arsenal, and just take the hit as an organization to stick with this teaching principle...it was very complicated
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and I'm tired of debating with those who don't know how to evaluate talent.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    who the hell ever said he was as good as rogers, manning, brady??..lol..my debate is, he is a great player, and not taking into account his youth at the position in ones analysis is weird.
     
  16. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Rodgers and Manning are great players, Wilson is not a great player he is a good player. This whole discussion is about explaining the difference between the two.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Stop. I'm not backtracking. You are literally inventing a n argument I never made.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah and relatively speaking, in his first three years, he's a great player....think about it..your giving him no credit in his rapid ascension, and your using hall of fame players as your definition and comparison point..

    silly, wilson is a great football player and has proved it..and has the respect of other pro football players who have described him as such.

    I'm curious, can you summarize your evaluation of this player coming out of college, the draft value you had on him, and did you lobby for him?
     
  19. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Yawns..
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yall started it..

    First qb ever to pass for 300 and Rush for 100..lol..

    But his play has not been good the last two losses..lol.

    :tongue2:
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Wilson won a SB, don't devalue.

    As for Tannehill, and I'm not a detractor but not buying all in yet.

    He is turning Wallace into a plow horse due to his lack of accuracy on deep passes, until he starts doing that I cannot buy in, when you have a ferrari you do not treat it like a prius you burn the tires off of the thing.

    Quietly Wallace has tied his Td total from 13, still it is like watching Wake drop into coverage, sure he can do it, why waste his strongest skillset that way?

    Wallace to his credit has adjusted still, THill's ceiling is becoming apparent
     
  22. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I thought my point was pretty clear, my bad if it wasn't so I'll say again, if you are passing 25 times per game (and winning) then your run game and defense must be pretty damn good. Even at 8 yards per that's only 200 yards. Where is the rest of the offense coming from? The run game obviously. And if 25 passes for 200 yds is enough to win consistently then chances are the D isn't allowing many points, IIRC Seattle allowed 13 ppg last year. Starts to make sense when you look at the big picture, no?

    What makes a passing offense more efficient? Lots of things. For Seattle its throwing when it's convenient, by choice not necessity. Avoiding obvious passing situations. Long yardage situations, big deficits, etc, again, running and playing good D.
     
  23. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    He has played one good half in the past two games. I have no idea what you're smiling about lol.
     
  24. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wilson call him elite, call him not elite don't matter, call him super bowl winner.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    hmmm, I see now, you've resorted to pointing out 6 of russell Wilson's last 8 quarters eh...pretty bad man, sounds like you've been waiting for this moment for two and half years to pounce on that sh@&..did he justify your evaluation all this time in those 6 quarters?...

    Your one point of him only having to throw 25 times in a game..well, he sure did play great football during those plays.
     
  26. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Ehh, no way you can call him elite. To me he's in the same category as matt ryan. I think it depends on what you value more. Escapability or pre read recognition. Wallace has far superior escapability but can't preread a blitz for the life of him. Right now I have wallace ahead of ryan because escapability can mitigate a lot of wallace's **** ups.

    I have at least ten qbs I would rather have than wallace so for me there is no way I could call him elite. Is he good yes, elite no. And its why I donmt want the dolphins to stray too much from traing ryan to be a pocket passer

    RuSsel wilson is this generation's donovan mcnabb. Hopefully tannehill is trained to be the next aaron rodgers
     
  27. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Ok..can we finally change the thread title as this has nothing to do with Tannehill?
     
  28. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    LOL. We are definitely not disciplined about staying on topic. I am adding myself near the top of that list.
     
  29. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why are we having a Wilson discussion...I am a MIAMI DOLFAN and hate the Seahawks..why did'nt the mods change title thread? Why can't y'all discuss Tannehill? Please....I like to read those with more breakdown knowledge than I discuss our team and our players as I tend to look at such with my heart.
     
  30. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I Had been disappointed with Tanny's play for the most part up to 3 games ago..now finally we have an O.C. that has not only developed Tanny's footwork better but has also started to call the game to fit his strengths which is that of read option..not pure dropback as Tanny will never be that..keep rolling Fins...both sides of the ball..let's take the next 3 and SHOCK the world in Denver.
     
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  31. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If Tanny can maintain this level of play, we can definitely win in Denver. One thing we can do is get after the QB with just our front four....and Denver really is not a great running team. Getting Manning off his mark would be huge, and we have the weapons to do that.
     
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    it does in a weird way. What type of qb do you want tannehill to be in two years? Do you want him to be a read option qb like wilson or do you want him to be more like aaron rodgers, a pocket passer with escapability. If you waste too many seasons running the read option extensively, he'll never devlop the pre snap recognition skills, feel for the pocket and ability to go through all his progressions imo. Its a short term gain vs a long term gain debate for me
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The read option is not going anywhere, the offense can be filtered thru the whole formation, pass and run, you seem to want him in a traditional pocket set, I believe that caters to his weaknesses, funneling this particular offense thru the read option caters to this qbs strengths..

    so try and accept who he is instead of making him into something you want him to be.
     
  34. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Here to stay lol. Nothing is here to stay. With the fans dying for a playoff berth there wiLl be a lot of pressure to win now and so I could see us running this offense more and more to the detriment of tannehill's devlopment. Me, keep continuing the majority of plays out of the traditional playbook and wheel out the read option occasionallyn whenever you need a change of pace, kind of like the wildcat. Tannehill was progressing as a pocket passer and does well at it when we face pass rushes outside of the top ten. To me I would only emphasize the read option when we play top ten pass rushing teams like the bills. This way tannehill keeps progressing and those teams that our oline can't handle we can let him run the read option and still function

    Me, I say push him to be the next aaron rodgers. You seem to want to limit him to only being the next russell wilson or donovan mcnabb
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Donovan McNabb never really had any designed runs called for him IIRC. In fact, McNabb played a style that was much more similar to Aaron Rodgers, albeit less effective IMO.
     
  36. pmj

    pmj New Member

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    It doesn't all have to be read option. Many also want more designed roll outs and boot legs, things that give him the option to take off or make an easy pass. We saw Peyton's old *** running one last night for a td and you see Wilson use a ton of them too.
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    keep ryan in the pocket in the future like we did his first two years, get the same results, needed to break that trend in year three..keep ryan in this offense, watch qb produce better performances..its really that simple.

    hes averaging 4 carries a game..lol...such a detriment to his development, Thats just not true, I believe you have it twisted, it will help his development in this offense by using the entire repertoire of skills..

    I believe thats good coaching..cater to your players strengths, especially the qb..

    you may want something different, thats a different issue..this is not an aaron rogers skill set.
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    of course we need more of those too, and some ryan runs on his own as well..that is if you want the best performance you can get from ryan.
     
  39. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Yep..Id force him to beat you over the top for sure.
     
  40. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Last week was the first week we dominated the quick screens and bubble screens. Previously was a huge weakness
     

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