It's not even close. People thought VD was a good tackler b/c he had some great hits, but he actually had more missed tackles than Sean Smith. And in coverage he was inconsistent. When he focused he could shut down great WRs but when he didn't he got beat by the same move over and over. He was immature and it was unlikely to change here. IMO it was a great trade for everybody involved.
So let me get this straight, you couldn't finish TYPING the word good because you were "lmao" but yet you found the ability to type the rest of your usual drivel. uh yea ok. So transparent.
I just hope the next time Vontae sees Ireland he does that hand movement Ireland did to him when he traded him, to describe Ireland's career. Or maybe he can just point to the ground. Vontae is the best cornerback in the league at the moment, been talking him up for weeks now. He looks like Revis did when Revis was on the Jets, except much more physical. Completely erases his opponent and when they do get a catch he lays them out, steamrolls them.
And Ireland can just hold up 6 fingers. The # of seasons it took him to finally play great. Wonder if folks will have the same patience with Dion.
Anything to say about how the team is playing I haven't heard a thing from you until this... "Lmao,Lol,rofl" ( * your buzzwords) At least we''re winning.... oh right, that's not what your about. I want winners.
Of course I'm happy we're winning. If we beat Detroit I think we're a playoff team and a dangerous one at that. But trading Vontae was stupid, same with Marshall.
Do they give Nobel Prizes for Beating Dead Horses? They should. Maybe then you'd finally achieve a real sense of accomplishment in your uselessly incessant harping on the past.
Vontae is a currently a great player -- that's obvious. He's also always been talented. I remember watching him live at the SD/MIA game and thinking he was one of the most fluid athletes I'd seen -- always in the WR's hip pocket. That said, he wasn't a great player in MIA. He was a decent to good player. I felt very bad for how he was mocked after that Hard Knocks segment -- that was really rude and disrespectful of a guy who had some really difficult news delivered to him on-camera -- but he routinely lost focus and was not a consistent player. Always had the talent, didn't always show it. I'm not sure ANYONE could have predicted that he'd become a top 5 corner. There was always a chance, but it's also always a gamble. Getting a 2nd round pick for that gamble wasn't a bad play at the time. The Colts ended up winning the hand, but I don't think we misplayed it.
This. My issue isn't that Philbin couldn't have coached Vontae up. It's that they didn't even try. He was traded before just days into Philbin's first ever training camp. If we went a whole year and Vontae stunk it up sure, go for the trade. It was bad trade because we gave away a great talent, and so far have nothing to show for it. Could Philbin have harnessed that talent? We don't know. But how do you give up on it after what, 15 days of training camp? Vontae hasn't done anything remotely close to the crap Pouncey has done. That first year Philbin was clearly trying to avoid any uncomfortable situation for him, and Vontae was one of the casualties.
Once again, we didn't shop VD. Teams came calling to us. No one "gave up" on him. We were offered a deal that was worth more than the quality of his product on the field at the time.
It's a good point that bears repeating. Even if Miami didn't trade Vontae, it took until on his second contract to finally turn it on. There is no guarantee he'd be Dolphin if he wasn't traded, so at least Miami got Jamar Taylor out of it.
There were a lot of people that were not happy with the trade at the time, I was one of them. I honestly thought Davis was pretty good here, I thought it was questionable that we could get a CB that played as good as him with a 2nd round pick. I think people were unrealistic with him about his play here, he was inconsistent but people act like he was a complete bust, he showed flashes and he was a young player still. The CB position is at a premium around the league, CBs are paid right below Quarterbacks if they are top notch CBs, giving up on one for a 2nd round pick was a bad play in hindsight obviously. I just remember a lot of people acting like we stole a 2nd round pick and that type of talk was obviously short sighted and kind of nuts. I think CBs that play even as good as he played here aren't that easy to come by. We've done good to get Grimes like we did so that eases the blow but really there isn't anything to justify the trade, I thought it was awful at the time and so did a lot of others on here.
Its also just as likely he never would have become the player he is without a huge wake up call like being traded on TV.
Except he was on his way to becoming that player regardless. He lead the team in INTs for 3 straight years, including 4 INTs the previous year (12 games). Joe Philbin had a bug up his *** about VD's conditioning and suddenly, he was gone. For Richard Marshall no less... Getting rid of VD was a mistake, period. It's over and done with now, so I'm not going to rant about it, but suggesting otherwise is rationalizing a bad trade.
No it doesn't bear repeating. It's rewriting history. Vontae was going into year 4 coming off his best season. When traded to Indy in 2012, he got hurt... The next season (2013) he was great. Great this year too.
And we'll never know. We didn't profit at all on the pick (yet) so for now, it's a bad trade. Period. He wasn't great yet but he was good if inconsistent. I'd like for our coach to recognize that diamond in the rough and try and mold it. He showed his true colors when asked about Chris Clemons.
Even though we'll never know, it sure seems people have their minds made up. Our coaching staff has found and cultured plenty of diamonds in the rough.
im gonna end this thread ready.... ''Culture defeats scheme'' Chip Kelly.. if this team get to 10 wins, philbin should get a lot of credit.
And we could have had one of the best DB's in the league, it was worth a try is what I'm saying. If we cut him, we end up with nothing. Right now, we have Jamar Taylor. Not that much of a difference. Nothing VD did, approached Incognito/Martin/Pouncey. He just needed to grow up. Philbin could have been that guy. Or he isn't. Has the staff nurtured anyone that was immature yet?
He gave up 8 TD's and had nearly a 100 QBR against him. That is not great. The only reason PFF had him rated high in his cumulative ratings was purely from ONE game where he scored a near 8.0 that made up most of his grade that year and is why PFF always says to take their cumulative ratings with a grain of salt. This is the first year period that Vontae has ever played in that 'great' territory. Without re-writing history the best you can say is that Vontae played alright here and there until this year. Again inconsistency is why he was traded when a good offer came up.
He's made some great plays that seem to make some forget that he was also awful much of the time. Any claim that he was great here is fiction. I was surprised we got as much as we did for him. It was a great trade for everyone. He was a bad fit here. A new coach was not going to be the guy that could wait and hope he matured.
That's just absurd because it ignores what actually happened and it ignores basic common sense. - We didn't "give up" on him. A team offered us a trade worth more than the level he was playing at. - It was ultimately Ireland's decision, not Philbin's. - Who knows who has been immature and who isn't? We only know Vontae was because of HardKnocks. Guys that have flourished/improved/grown up/progressed under this staff so far, for example, Jones, Misi, Wilson, Gibson, Miller, Odrick, OV, Finnegan, Wallace, etc.
Hah, you lecturing about common sense. - We didn't "give up" on him. A team offered us a trade worth more than the level he was playing at.[/quote]We absolutely gave up on him. Because we never thought his play would go past a 2nd round pick, which is just a chance to draft a player with probably a less than 1/16 chance of that player playing well in the NFL. Indy made the bet and they won. Big time. We made a bet, and we got Jamar Taylor. At Philbin's behest. Oh that's right, I forgot. We found out when Brandon Marshall threw that football in Vontae's face. Oh wait. Yeah, we know nothing about the team except what's been on Hard Knocks. Pouncey's Free Hernandez hat was on Hard Knocks too, right? Vontae had immaturity issues that were known before the draft. None of those guys were immature. I'm not talking about developing talent, but developing character. Specifically, Vontae's immaturity about his work ethic and profession demeanor. Look at how long SF stuck with Vernon Davis, his own brother whose immaturity and attitude issues hung like a cloud over Vontae. Their coaches didn't run from problems. Philbin did. That's about as frank as I can be.
Goddamn, you really should stick to stuff you actually know about. Not sure what that may be. It was not at Philbin's behest. That's just a big effing lie on your part. Ireland fielded a call and then asked Philbin's opinion. And his opinion was basically "meh". That is all fact. That is all on the record. That is all on tape. Hell, weren't you one of the ones that screamed & cried left and right about Ireland being the GM so all the Parcells stuff was his fault? Now, Ireland had no responsibility and it was Philbin telling him what to do.....make up your mind. Then you turn around and mention Pouncey and ignore he's still on the team. You're basically saying, "We don't develop or stick with immature guys like Davis & Marshall....or Pouncey (if, you know, Pouncey wasn't still on the team.) BTW, genius, you think Misi knocking down hotel doors is mature? You think Jones & Jordan doing drugs and getting caught is mature too? You are literally fabricating context to wrap around your BS theory that was built by your dislike of Philbin. Its silly. There is not one single thing that suggests Vontae wouldn't still be on the team if someone else hadn't called us and made a stellar offer. And you're still ignoring the very likely possibility trading him woke his *** up to the player he is. Again I said "flourished/improved/grown up/progressed". Learn to read. And no, you don't know who was immature and who wasn't. You know one or two, but there's more players than that on the team. Hell, we didn't even hear about Cogs molesting a woman at a team charity event until considerably later. You don't know a drop in the goddamn bucket about what goes on behind closed doors there, none of us do.
