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Are We Improving?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Nov 9, 2014.

Are We Improving?

  1. Yes

    63 vote(s)
    88.7%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    11.3%
  1. HogsHDFinsfan

    HogsHDFinsfan New Member

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    But no new HC is going to "accept" Tannehill. New coach = new QB.
     
  2. HogsHDFinsfan

    HogsHDFinsfan New Member

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    How does it show? being one game over .500 does not translate into vast improvement. if we are better, the improvement is marginal, and likely not enough to get us in the playoffs. But I am willing to let the season playout and see if I am wrong. If we make the playoffs Philbin and the quarterback come back. If we don't, they are both gone!
     
    jw3102 likes this.
  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm feeling that too. I'm impressed we played so well against Detroit and GB, of course I'm impressed by the domination in the SD game as well, and the streak we were on.

    I'm not sure, but I kind of feel that we're in Detroit's situation. Jim Schwartz, as boneheaded as he is, really did a good job steering the Detroit ship out of the mess it was in. Caldwell appears to be the guy to help them get to that next level. I feel we're at that point in Miami, where Philbin has done a good job changing the culture, and helping this team transform, but I don't think he's a good enough coach to take us to the next level. He may get there someday, but I don't think we have the luxury of waiting anymore...
     
    Bpk likes this.
  4. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I honestly don't understand all the hate for Philbin. Yes, he is a bit of dullard, and sure you can second guess some of his game day decisions (you can do that with any coach even the great ones). But Joe is a big picture guy who by all accounts in this thread has the team pointed in the right direction. Is that such a bad thing?
     
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  5. 407PhinFan

    407PhinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Earl Mitchell was a GREAT signing. Yes, we definitely need to find a way to keep Kacy... And yeah, I agree that our DLine as configured is only solid for another 3 years or so... But OV is young. Jared Odrick is Young. Mitchell is young. We can build on these guys, and Shelby is great for our depth. Maybe Fede blossoms, maybe he doesn't. I think we will be fine in that dept.

    Cornerback is the spot that really worries me. We are getting older, even getting GREAT play from Optimus Grimes, and we are going to need a new #2 CB after this season depending on how Finnegan rehabs from injury. We'll see if Davis or Taylor prove themselves capable of being a #2 CB. I miss you so much Nolan Carroll =(
     
    Bpk likes this.
  6. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    While I think the Dolphins probably have their most talented team in nearly a decade, the fact is that if the season ended today, the Dolphins would finish 11th in the AFC.

    This team seems to have the same problem Dolphin teams have had for a decade or more. They just don't seem capable of winning close games in the 4th quarter.

    Right now it is hard to say this team has improved because their record says that are merely mediocre, which is what they have been for the past five years.

    I do believe they have the players to make a legitimate run at the playoffs. Yet until they actually end the season with more wins than losses, I really can't say at this time that this team is an improvement over the 2013 team, which was 8-6 after 14 games and then fell apart in the last two games of the season.
     
  7. 407PhinFan

    407PhinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As much as that drop saddened me, let's be honest about it for a second: The ball was placed right on Clay's body, but it was closer to his hip at that point in his jump. That allowed Ihedigbo a chance to target the ball, and hit the ball specifically as Clay attempted to corral it. Yes, Clay had it, but he was hit immediately without really having a catch to actually CATCH the ball. Not all his fault. Tannehill made a pretty good throw there.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  8. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    And here it is from the horse's mouth and I agree with Wallace:

     
  9. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If you cant see how we've improved by watching the games, then man, not sure what ever I say is gonna make any difference. And No, Tannehill is not gone, lol. Hes under contract till 2016.
     
    ElNino likes this.
  10. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Why do people keep saying, "If the Season ended today". That makes as much sense as saying..."If they season ended today" after week 3 or 4. The season DOESNT end today.
     
  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The OP was questioning if this is an improved team or not. All we have to go on at this time is the record of the team after nine games. As the saying goes, "you are what your record says you are"

    So right now the Dolphins are a middle to bottom tier team in the AFC, based on their record.

    It doesn't matter how talented the team may or may not be. The only thing that matters is the wins and losses. So after nine games, it doesn't appear based on the Dolphins record that they are any better than they have been in recent years, when they also had very mediocre records.

    Obviously the Dolphins could win enough games to have a winning season or even make the playoffs over the next 7 games. If that happens, it will show that this team is improved and better than the previous teams coached by Philbin.

    So if we are judging the Dolphins after their first nine games, as the OP requested, their record clearly shows that they remain mediocre at this point in the season.
     
  12. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    Ask me after the buffalo game; if we win I say definatel yes. If we lose, the answer is we're the same 5-5 both years.
     
  13. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Not sure, tough question. They still struggle mightily on offense against good defenses. I mean, the 1 TD Sunday was courtesy of a special teams blocked FG where the offense only needed 2 yards or so. Otherwise they couldn't find the endzone at all. Struggled against the Jaguars front 7. Have gotten plastered by the Bills D ever since Philbin/Tannehill arrived. Struggled against the Packers D until both starting cornerbacks left the game.

    Its nice that they can score well on crappy teams like the Bears and Raiders, but it would be nice to see it consistently against better defense in tougher matchups. Chargers game was impressive, but you need to learn to win tough close games or you won't go anywhere.

    Run game has improved. OLine was improved...but now the best player is gone. Tannehill has played better but still has no deep ball which hurts in today's NFL. Missed on the sure TD to Wallace. Its still shaky and not good enough to be a major threat. Still, they should have the talent to get to the playoffs.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Lost in all this is that for most of the game, the Lions also struggled on offense. We played the number one defense in the league. Both teams struggled on offense.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I still see improvement. When he gets cold now, he regroups and recovers. he used to TOTALLY implode! It was either 2 TDs and an INT game, or a 3 INT game, nothing in between.

    His floor is getting higher, if that makes sense. Which is very important.

    It means there may be days where he is not necessarily the reason we win.. but VERY few days where he's the reason we LOSE.

    Now I want to see him raise his CIELING, so his good days are 3 and 4 TD days, not 2 TD days.

    For that to happen, he needs a slightly better deep ball.
     
    Clark Kent likes this.
  16. They are without question a better team this year. They are not just squeaking out wins thanks to a lucky call or fortous bounce of the ball. They are winning by playing complete games which is something I have not seen from them in a very long time. I would rank them in the top 1/3 of the leauge. Yesterday they lost to a better a team. I know thats a hard pill to swallow but its the truth. The Lions are stacked with talent and frankly overcame bad coaching by their own HC. What was good to see is that the Dolphins did not lay down and hand the game away. They got beat but it wasnt because they folded.

    Thursdays game is going to say a lot about the coaching. Coming off a short week and having to string together a make shift line and game plan to compensate for that is going to be a challenge. This is a must win game for many reasons but winning is not enough they must show they can control the rush of the bills d-line on the fly. This game will be a good reflection of the coaching.
     
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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    We are really, really, really close to being great. Don't let the record fool you.

    We absolutely have the ability to play with the big boys, we just need to find a way to be consistent.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    its in his third year and he's facing a must win game at home..so there is pressure at this point.
     
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I would say, so far. They look much better than last season. They are whooping the teams they are better than and after the KC game still playing the good teams close. Last season a bounce or two went their way. This season, in the last 2 close games against good teams, none of the bounces went their way and they are 0-2.
     
  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Agree.... for this reason:

    Our offense struggles against strong interior D-lines and in the redzone (where you want interior push).

    We need to overcome this to take the next step.

    Buffalo is an opportunity.
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Why? Explain why that's an absolute?

    Over the last few years, other teams have changed head coaches and given the incumbant QB a fair chance to keep the job.
     
  22. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    That would be the worst, new HC and same QB.
     
  23. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You know your red zone offense is bad when your OC, QB and WR need to talk on the side line and draw up a TD play in the dirt.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Actually i think that is a good thing.

    I think not trying something new is more of an indictment of a coaching staff.
     
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  25. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    I do not understand the prevailing opinion as well. The coordinators and supporting coaches are the best we have seen in a while. He worked well with Hickey to upgrade the talent. While he still makes game management mistakes, he is better this year. Honestly, I believe most of the criticism has nothing to do with coaching. The same posters that complain about his coaching skills do not like his "principal of the school" behavior. They complain about his robot like demeanor.
     
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  26. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    I disagree
     
  27. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Yes, I think we are...you can trace each of our last minute losses, to decent teams, to one or two guys who missed a play...this week, it was Clay's drop and the entire D for letting them move down the field and score. Against GB, it was Finnegan (I believe) not keeping a guy from getting out of bounds, (IMO, he was sleeping on the play) and the rest of the D for letting GB move down the field with little time left on the clock...inexcusable mistakes... Those losses separate this team from being a legit playoff contender to being just another team that's likely to be left out in the cold in January... That said, Lazor has made a world of difference in this O, but you still have those stupid mistakes like dropped balls and such that kill drives...RT is not our main problem on O....Maybe Mike Wallace should worry more about making catches than calling out the entire O.
     
  28. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    So if we miss the playoffs this year, do we blow it up or give Philbin/Tannehill another year?
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Tannehill will probably get another shot no matter what. Might bring in a veteran or a new draft pick, however he isn't doing bad enough to give up on.
     
  30. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I agree Tanny is coming back next year most likely, but what about Philbin and the staff? Give them another year to get better players or give them pinkslips?
     
  31. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    If philbin goes we should give Coyle a shot.
     
  32. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I honestly think we're improving...but it's painful to lose Albert and Thomas already...all-pro LT and impact player on ST/Defense.

    Everybody has injuries to it's not an excuse, and I'm not trying to make it out to be one, but losing Albert was probably the WORST possible player to lose, next to RT...so that could cloud the read on how much we are improving/have improved, since there's still so many games left.

    Going to make Lazor's job REALLY hard this week...

    The overarching feel I'm getting is that several key individuals aren't what you'd consider experts or masters of their position (coaches/players included) and are learning OJT. It's OK to have a few, but we have several. It's the only consideration, to me, that gives a reason to believe we could continue to improve going forward with the current HC/OC/DC/QB.
     
  33. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Because robots make piss-poor head coaches. They do things like take a timeout that helps the other team and, maybe more importantly, makes your defensive players feel exaperated, upset and thereby NOT at peak focus... RIGHT when it matter most.

    The man is clueless about actually leading and relating to human beings, which have feelings that heavily impact performance.

    So, yes, it matters.

    And to save people time who may respond that these emotional and psychological things aren;t that important, or not real, or whatever else the robot-lovers erroneously believe, consider that in the post-game interview one Dolphin said that the only difference between the offense struggling at the beginning of the game and then playing better was (specifically) not any difference in plays or technique or anything except "MINDSET". That's it. That's the ONE factor he specifically said changed the offense from sucking to playing better... and he specifically said none of the other factors changed or mattered.

    So yes, I am deeply concerned that the head coach, who creates the culture and message for the team, is clueless about the human psyche.
     
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  34. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Odrick is 26, Mitchell 27. Anthony Johnson is in the waiting and he is a beast. We got Fede who is promisin and Vernon is in his 3rd year only.

    Misi is playing at pro bowl level at MLB and he can be around for a long time at that position. Jenkins is stepping up at OLB. McCain is in the grooming, and Jordan is also young.

    We have a healthy clubhouse, players are realizing their potential, taking ownership of their roles, and there is good camaraderie. There is nothing to be worried about. We are set for years with this HC and system.

    We just need an OC who is willing to play consistent balanced football, and we don't have one. We have a guy who wants to experiment, change, test how far he can load up RT rather than play winning football.
     
  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Vernon is the most over rated player on this D from a fan perspective. We talk about him like he's a real threat off the edge and he's not. He doesn't get after the QB with any consistency. It's why he's statistically fallen back to the earth after a fluke double digit sack season. We absolutely should be looking to upgrade the RDE (moving DJ to LB).
     
  36. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I can agree with all of that. That said, I think his floor needs to raise even higher before we say "He's our guy, no matter, for the next XYZ years."

    My hope is we play well enough to attract the big name coaches (Harbaugh or Malzhan) and they give Tannehill a shot. He's still has (basically) 2 years left on his deal and it's not like anyone better is waiting in the wings.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Fallen back to earth? He has 4.5 sacks in 9 games, which would get him 8 if he kept up that pace. Which is 3.5 less than last year. I hardly call 3.5 less sacks, "Falling back to earth." He would have 5.5 sacks if Finnegan didn't get called for a ticky tacky illegal contact penalty, which had zero effect on the play, which would have him at 9.7 on the season, which is close.

    He could easily end the season with double digit sacks.
     
  38. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Tannehill would still be our qb in the event of a coaching change. Unless we got mariota or Winston, and even then I still think tannehills the better qb. And getting them would be a huge waste of resources for this team.

    If anything, I think tannehill would be a selling point to incoming coaches. Look a obrien in Houston, he did just about anything he could to not go to a rookie. Signed fitztragic, and traded for mallet.
     
  39. HogsHDFinsfan

    HogsHDFinsfan New Member

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    I did watch the game. I watch the fins accumulate less than 300 yards on offense. I watched the defense blow another game late. I watched special teams give up a big play.and I see our record is one game over 500. The same as it was last year going in to week 15. So improved? Perhaps marginally. Vast improvement? No way.
     
  40. HogsHDFinsfan

    HogsHDFinsfan New Member

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    the problem with Tannehill being retained is a new coach knows that bringing in a new quarterback maybe buys him one more year. If you stick with Tannehill as your quarterback, and he makes bad throws to Charles clay(even if clay should have made that catch) in the endzone, he misses Wallace wide open for would be touchdowns,leads this offence to under 300 yards...you are going to be held accountable for that. Because you should have known better than that.
     

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