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Jarvis Landry: ROTY Darkhorse

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by keithjackson, Nov 9, 2014.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would love to see more 10-15 yard slant routes to Wallace, where maybe he could find a seam to break some big plays. Perhaps if he were more utilized on those routes, it would open the deep routes a little more, not requiring such precision from Tannehill when throwing deep to Wallace?
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Just watched a Wallace highlight vid on youtube. Of the 17 plays in the video, 11 of them Wallace caught by trapping them against his chest/stomach. Talking deep balls, slants, everything. The 6 he caught withouut using his chest/stomach, he bobbled at least 3 of them. He had one nice fingertip grab. That is the problem with Wallace. His catch radius is TINY. You have to throw an absolutely perfect ball, and you better hope that there isn't any sort of tight coverage to interfere with him.
     
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  3. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping better. Seems like he's on track for it so far.
     
  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You got ODB, Mike Evans, both who have missed games, Watkins, Cooks, Martavis Bryant, Mike Evans, hell even Allen Robinson and Jordan Matthews have made some noise. Landry is good but to me, all purpose yards don't compare to regular yards.
     
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  5. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes indeed. Comparing punt return yards to reveiving yards is disingenuous when trying to compare Landry to other rookie WRs.
     
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  6. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    Why not? They both can affect field position.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Because nobody in their right mind believes that Allen Rossum was a better football player than Tim Brown, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, James Lofton, Cris Carter, Henry Ellard, Torry Holt, Andre Johnson, Andre Reed, Steve Largent, Steve Smith, etc.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    How well is Jarvis Landry doing compared with other rookies?

    1. He ranks #8 of 20 rookies with at least 50 qualifying routes in Yards per Route.
    2. He ranks #14 of the same 20 rookies in Yards per Target.
    3. He ranks #12 of 20 of the same 20 rookies in Drops Per Catchable Pass (#1 being a guy with no drops, #20 a guy with lots of drops).
    4. He ranks #11 of all rookie wide receivers in Receiving Yards.
    5. He is tied for #10 of all rookie wide receivers in Receiving Touchdowns.

    Yeah I'm pretty sure it's wishful thinking for him to even be CONSIDERED for rookie of the year.
     
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  9. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    Sadly I have to agree here. Unless he and the O absolutely explode the rest of the year to get him in #1-5 for most of these stats, with a few KR/PR to the house, I dont think it happens.
     
  10. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    He has about the same odds as Philbin does of winning coach of the year.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Quite frankly, especially if he looks great at left tackle for the rest of the year, JaWuan James stands a better chance of getting OROY.
     
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  12. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    If you like Football Outsiders DYAR stat only Sammy Watkins is ranked ahead of Landry for rookie WRs, and Landry is neck and neck with him in DVOA. Watkins might not make it through the season and Landry is coming on strong. Plus, do special teams factor in or is there a separate award for that?
     
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  13. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'm really shocked we don't target Landry in the redzone more. He may not have the size, but his hands are made of glue. Hes the only one id really trust to win 50/50 balls.
     
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  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'd be all for that.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Mike Evans is such a god damn stud. He makes a lot of the other guys out there look liks JAGs. Except Sammy Watkins. Nobody can make Sammy look like a JAG.

    Allen Robinson and Brandin Cooks look damn good as well though.
     
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  16. keithjackson

    keithjackson Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If I had to made a top ten list from the snippets I've seen:

    1. Sammy Watkins
    2. Josh Brown
    3. Odell Beckham Jr.
    4. Kelvin Benjamin
    5. Brandin Cooks
    6. Jarvis Landry
    7. Mike Evans
    8. Allen Robinson
    9. Jordan Matthews
    10. Allen Hurns

    I would take Landry over all the WRs behind him, and maybe even Cooks, at this point. Personally, I include the all purpose yards when evaluating his impact on the game. Looking at Cordarelle Patterson last year, he had a huge, game-changing year for the Vikings, but more than half the yards came on kickoff returns. Would you take him over Brian hartline, who had more recieving yards? Honest question.

    Even this week, I'd attribute Landry with at least five big plays that put us in position to win: he had our first three first downs in the game, including 4 and 12 yard catches on third down, plus his second half KO returns that's flipped the field position game.

    There's a bit of faith that comes with making projections, but it's commendable how he has fought his way to the #1 WR position on this team (in targets this week), amongst a very talented group. Where he goes from here is the fun part; I'm still guessing top five, but Evans, Cooks and Matthews is very tough competition.
     
  17. jpep13

    jpep13 Coach Of The Year Club Member

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    Allen Robinson out for the year. Broken foot, tough break. No pun
    Nfl.com
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That hurts. I just watched his last game against the Cowboys and he was really coming on too. He's so physical getting off the jam and it's just hard to cover the man. Great hands too. He picked up a 7 yard catch at the end of the first half on 3rd & 3 and he scraped the thing up from right off the grass, amazing catch.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Based on what I've seen of all of them I would take Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins, Kelvin Benjamin, Brandin Cooks, Allen Robinson, Odell Beckham, John Brown and Jordan Matthews over Jarvis Landry.

    I think Jarvis Landry is still being overrated by the fanbase.
     
  20. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Awesome.
    Really wanted him because of his size and his attitude when the ball is in the air. He acts like he owns that thing and don't get in his way. Love that attitude.

    Loved Cooks because of that scary speed, but pretty damn happy w/ Landry especially for where we got him.
     
  21. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    You can add Martavis Bryant to that list too.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I have said this for a while. The only thing that kept me from ranking Mike Evans ahead of Sammy Watkins (I had them at a virtual tie) was a small question about his character that I had and I said it's pure ignorance on my part as I don't have access to the guy, can't interview him, can't even interview people that know him, etc. It's just that there were a few immature moments on the field and I wondered about them.

    Since then, before the season even began, I talked to people that actually know him here in Tampa...people that have contact with him EVERY DAY at the facilities. And now I know he's basically a sweetheart. If I knew that prior to the draft I'd have ranked him ahead of Sammy Watkins.

    The guy has the physical ability to be another Calvin Johnson, Vincent Jackson or Dez Bryant type of player.
     
  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because it's not even close. When he's running routes he's running it against a DB or another defender and has to compete for the ball against his teammates as well (RB, TE, WRs). If he's returning a punt or a kickoff he's getting the ball and unless he calls a fair catch each and every time, he's going to get yardage. If he decides to return every single kickoff out of the end zone and only gets 19 yards each time, the team is worse off but he added 19 yards to his All purpose total.

    I like Landry and he's really impressed me with how he reacts with the ball in his hands but it is not even close to being the same thing.

    Music to my ears. In my dynasty league (it's our first year) my cousin is in the playoff hunt but had absolutely no RBs but a ton of WRs (Dez, Josh Gordon, Sammy Watkins, Odell Beckham, Mike Evans and Martavis Bryant. I had solid RBs for next year (Lamar Miller, Mark Ingram, Denard Robinson, Tre Mason, Carlos Hyde). My Michael Floyd pick busted on me hard so I offered Lamar for Evans last week and he took it! We can only keep 8 players. I hope Lamar does well for him but I'm very happy with Evans next year to pair with AJ Green. Gonna go for Gurley or maybe Melvin gordon?

    I have Evans and Watkins at the top of the rookie class, pickem. Kelvin Benji too but him and Watkins benefit from having no other weapons on the squad. Cooks would probably be up there if Brees wasn't the master at spreading it around. There are so many guys on that team fighting for the ball including the running backs. Graham is the top guy there. ODB, and Martavis look good although I'm still wait and see with Martavis.

    Then you have Jordan Matthews, Allen Robinson, and I might be missing others. Josh Brown is boom or bust. This is a loaded rookie WR class. Obviously some will eventually bust but man there is a lot of talent this year.
     
  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Basically, the type of receiver we've been dreaming of as a Dolphin.
     
  25. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Yeh well.. You weren't big on Landry from the start.. So your vote does not count.








    That's me kidding by the way.
     
  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Still having dreams of Kevin White on the outside...
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah but we never had a chance at him. There weren't many WRs left on the board when we picked (Montcrief? Josh Brown?) and I'm not going to question us not taking one with the first pick nor whether we should have traded up for someone like Allen Robinson.
     
  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I don't specifically mean just this last year. We need a big presence, regardless.
     
  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hear ya. I'd love a Mike Evans type on our team. Small fast shifty players are fun and all of that, but one of my favorite players is Vincent Jackson. Huge guy with a high ypc and just goes up and gets it. I swear many of Philip River's tds early in his career were just tossups to Jackson and Jackson won the battle every time. Need someone that's just going to abuse the DB fighting for the ball. We don't have anyone remotely similar to that now.
     
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  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Could have had Allen Robinson. Broken foot or not if you've watched his work in Jacksonville it's hard not to be impressed. And he's another guy that is big and strong, gets off the jam and can make physical catches plus impressive run after catch plays.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I know you're kidding but I know you also kind of mean it a little which is OK. I'm just saying, however biased you think I am against Jarvis Landry, that's how biased the fanbase are acting in favor of Jarvis Landry.

    I'm a little bit surprised at the Football Outsiders stuff and I'd like to see a breakdown of how they arrived at their numbers. They might take into account the return yardage and that would explain it. But other than those FO numbers it's really hard to objectively make the case that he's even performing in the top 5 amongst rookie receivers. I'm not trying to be biased against the guy. I'm going off measures that I have been using since they've been available years ago. And I see the guy play every week. I won't hesitate and say he looks better than I thought he would look in his rookie season, based on my evaluation of him coming out. But I also don't see how you look at what he's giving us every week and then say...man that guy's in the running for OROY.

    We're talking about a receiver who is averaging 7.3 yards per target. He's averaging 1.78 yards per snap. He's got 2 touchdowns. He's dropped 2 balls. He's averaging 6.6 yards after the catch which is great, but he's catching the football an average of 2.8 yards beyond the line of scrimmmage and that is an absurdly low number that contributes greatly to the YAC average, and brings home the fact that you've got to look at his (really low, to be honest) 7.3 yards per target number.

    And considering this is a guy with only 351 yards through 9 games of the season, why are we sitting here having these conversations about how "great" this player is?

    Do people realize that the fanbases of 10 or 11 other teams get to sit around having the SAME conversation, with at least as much cause in each case? Hell the Jags get to sit around having this conversation about TWO of their rookie receivers.

    As a RECEIVER (not as a return man) Jarvis Landry has really not separated himself that strongly from the likes of:

    01. Sammy Watkins, Buffalo
    02. Mike Evans, Tampa Bay
    03. Kelvin Benjamin, Carolina
    04. Brandin Cooks, New Orleans
    05. Allen Robinson, Jacksonville
    06. Allen Hurns, Jacksonville
    07. Odell Beckham Jr., New York Giants
    08. John Brown, Arizona
    09. Taylor Gabriel, Cleveland
    10. Jordan Matthews, Philadelphia
    11. Martavis Bryant, Pittsburgh
    12. Davante Adams, Green Bay
    13. Donte Moncrief, Indianapolis

    That's the reality. Every one of those fanbases has the right to start threads like this one and to have the conversation we're having right now about Jarvis Landry. Many have more of a right to it.

    I think everything in its own time. I'm just waiting for Landry to show me something special. He's shown me he can play in this league but I suspected he could do that, especially at the position Davone Bess formerly played (slot). Now he needs to show me that in a year or so I'm not going to be drafting a guy with better physical ability that I really hope supplants him on the depth chart.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you have to equate the value of the pick in there somewhere, most of those guys were first round picks, we got james there...Landry's value in 2nd i looking very high.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    but what is the point of the list, what is it that your trying to say, we got james first and landry in the 2nd, how bout some relativive thinking here?
     
  34. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I mean this thread isn't about the value of the pick DJ, it's campaigning Landry as a candidate for rookie of the year, which is ridiculous, there's a boatload of rookie receivers outperforming him.
     
  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stashed on my dynasty team. AJ Green, Mike Evans, Allen Robinson, Cooks and Jordan Mathews. Yes all rookies but a few of them has to pan out :D Tough decisions on who to drop later.

    But it is between an Allen Robinson (who we may have been able to move up for) and Landry. I forgot we traded down. Also available was Davante Adams. Montcrief, Brown and Martavis all taken later.But it's hard to second guess with guys with much lower grades. Davante, Robinson were both available to us around Landry. Davante is buried on the depth chart but it'll be interesting to see how him and Robinson compare to Landry in a year or two. I'd rather have Robinson in a heartbeat.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ok..

    however, if I have a first round pick in the race doesn't that give me an inherent advantage?
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    could we say, relatively speaking, Landry is at the top considering the value where we got him relative to most of those guys..and how that value gained can benefit our team in the assets and cap room depts.?

    no?..lol
     
  38. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well..it cant be just a bunch of fruit juice loving Dolphans cuz hes been getting the love on a national level. What I see is a guy who just seems like hes two steps ahead of the defenders on the field. Every game hes doing two or three things that you can look back and go that really had an impact on the game.

    I dont think any of us really believe he will win ROTY..Im just happy as hell hes even in the conversation. Hes intense..and hes a baller. He just plays football the way its supposed to be played. Bill Lazor says he plays at 100 percent speed every time hes on the field. Thats what Chip Kelly says they looked for at Oregon..not the fastest players..but the guys who played at 100 percent of their potential speed all the time. Thats what Landry does..
     
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  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The jury is still out. But we netted Walt Aikens and Jordan Tripp out of all the extra picks. So is Landry+Aikens+Tripp better than Allen Robinson? Time will tell.
     
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  40. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I think the fact that every defender playing against Landry is going to be forced to match that...100 percent Speed on every play ...or they will get beat, and I dont think their are alot of players in the league like that ..much less defenders.

    Oregons coaches said they were so fast on the field because every player played that way.

    Ive yet to really see a CB cover Landry...or shut him down. He makes 100 percent out of every ball thrown his way.


    I know Im gonna get laughed off this board for saying this..but the guy who Landry really reminds me of...the desire to play great..no the desire to be ELITE..no the desire to be the best WR to ever play the game...


    Hes not as tall..but hes got the desire and heart that one Jerry Rice had.
     

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