The sure fire way to keep the 8-8 train going is to change coaches every 3 years. I like Lazor. If we can keep the status quo / fire Philbin, and replace him with a figure head that the Fanbase thinks is some type of genius..then I am all for it. We have a competent coaching STAFF (what really matters) and an increasing talent level. A Recipe for success.
I don't think it is absurd...Any more than somebody stating that The Philbin love is absurd. I don't see it as hate or love. Just fans deciding if the body of work Joe has laid out is worthy of keeping him or getting rid of him. I hope we can decide based on the results. I think thats all we can wish for this team. His record is .500...Seems to be fairly split between keeping him and firing him. I can not decide yet..points on both sides sway me a little. I would like not to start over but at the same time, have better tangible results..Wins. I like Lazor and Benton. Not sold on Coyle. If it comes down to a complete overhaul or bring everybody back, I really do not have an answer yet. I don't see it as hate, just wanting better results. I don't see it as love, just want to see the improving continue.
Surefire way to expect 8-8 is to keep the coach that averages .500 every season he's been a head coach.
If Philbin does not burn Coyle at stake on top of the stadium and let him burn for a week so that all of SoFLA can see what happens to losers, then he needs to fired.
I wonder how much the opinions in here may change if we lose to the Jets on MNF. Suddenly we'd have dropped 3 of our last 4 games, with the Ravens and Patriots upcoming.
Great Point! Lose next Monday night, a large portion of our fan base will want him FIRED on Tuesday morning.
If we finish with a better than 8-8 record, then the coach has not only improved the record every year, but got us our QB, assembled a helluva a staff and made us relevant again, in just 3 years time. So yes, the hate is absurd.
All except for three people will still hang onto Philbin after that. And I know MNF isn't a given but there will be those homers that think we're 7-5 without having played the game. Last I remember the Jets beat us last year with a worse starting quarterback and eliminated our playoff hopes.
I still feel we need to be 9-7 for me to be OK with keeping Philbin. I wouldn't necessarily agree with keeping him at 8-8 but I wouldn't be overly upset. My narrative wouldn't change regardless of the outcome of the Jets game. I imagine it'll be a blow out... One way or the other.
What problems over the last 3 years have you laid at Philbin's feet? I am just curious if you see any weaknesses in him as HC. Not being a jerk, just wonder what you see in him that gives you such confidence.. I am not convinced one way or the other. If we finish 8-8, what would you do?
I think some, especially older members/fans, would argue that's setting the bar pretty low compared to standards in the past and how quickly teams in the NFL can turnaround year-to-year. Whether that constitutes as "hate" or not, I'll leave to you.
This is an unusual position, because while Philbin does not exude "HC material" in the eyes of some, his worth may be more in the management of his coaches, etc. Behind the scenes kind of thing. To become an NFL head coach, one must have a vast understanding of football knowledge. That does not mean that the person is necessarily the right fit, but football knowledge (as vague as I am putting it) is of the utmost importance. Philbin, from all accounts, has been around football for a long time and has good knowledge of the game. How he presents himself to his players and how he teaches the game; while, hopefully, these materialize into the players buying into the system and the team turning that knowledge into wins. While the ascension regarding wins has been slow, I think it is there. Year one, he looked lost and seemingly lacked empathy in the Chad Johnson ordeal. But hell, why should he have been 'understanding' of this situation? Sorry, Ocho Crap-o. The first year is a pass, because....well, it just is (in anyone's eyes). Then last year, he loses Keller and he has this O-line debacle. Miami nearly had things going in the right direction only to lose a sense of self later in the year. Coaches were fired. We know what happened there. Maybe pass #2. This year, while it has been a mixed bag, the core of the team seems to be buying into the system. The coaches, while still green in some regard, are putting in the work and the players are finally responding. Miami has been playing well, damned well, mostly. I see more big plays, esp. from players not many expected to make big plays. The running game is solid, though the loss of Moreno hurts. The defense is legitimately tough, though, as with any squad, they sometimes do not play up to snuff. This happens. I mean, look what Denver did against the Rams. It is going to happen. What hurts are the losses to these teams Miami competed with until the final whistle was blown. These are tough, tough, losses. But they were in it. Things happen. I hate they are 0-3 in those games, but damn, are they so close. This is a young squad, and young staff, and I think they are moving in the right direction. I truly do. But Miami is at the point of no return. And I do not think it will be an easy decision either way come the end of the year. But I think Philbin is the right guy for right now. He is growing, and it is very apparent in how he carries himself with the press, and with the team after games. He is more open to players. I think he is doing many of the little things to move this team in the right direction. It is showing....maybe not at the pace we fans would like, but his fingerprint is certainly there. If the players play for him, then I trust his knowledge. If he loses them, then maybe it is time for a change. If he gets canned, I would be against letting Lazor take the reigns. I just do not feel comfortable letting another guy with no head coaching experience lay out another plan for the team. I would just rather not go through this again. I am fine with Philbin right now. At the end of the year, maybe I'll feel differently. But the team is better right now, regardless of the heartbreakers. There are some things to worry about in the offseason regarding players and money, but all of those things will pan out one way or another. Coaches make questionable on-field decisions all of the time. It's easy for us to pick things apart post-decision. Philbin has not shown me he is regressing, which is okay with me. Let this year play out before bringing up suppositions. It's premature, and we aren't soothsayers. It is time to win in bunches. There is that possibility, and I feel it is a good one. We'll see how the players respond to the coaching. If they do not.....maybe he's not the guy.
Yes. I've even made threads about it. Again though, my argument isn't that he's perfect or even great. My argument is that he's being talked about as if he's the worst coach we've ever had.
3 years is a lot of time in the modern NFL. And improving your record by one game each season is not really that impressive.
Then those members are wrong. We've been mired in **** for decades. For the first time, since Jimmy, we can actually see the freaking light at the end of the tunnel and the Crap on Everything Using The Past as Justification Brigade, are out of their minds. There's a lot of members here who cannot remember when the quality of our play was this good overall. I'm not saying we're done. I'm not saying we need to do nothing. I'm saying its asinine to blow it all up. I'm saying its absurd to hate Philbin as if he was Cameron or even Wannidiot.
Based on what? Improvement is improvement. If you want to get rid of Philbin for a quantifiably better coach, then fine. But the talk of ousting when we still can go 9-7 to 11-5 is crazy.
I don't see many calling him the worst coach we ever had. I see that a few do. Fanbases often swing back and forth on we are great/we suck.My problem is that I don't want an average coach..I want better. Do you think he is an above average HC? Or just a middle of the road guy getting better? Are there any HC's that you would take over Joe? Any you feel could do a better job? BTW, I certainly do not view him as our worst coach ever.
The guy has a 21-22 record. Nothing crazy about talking about firing him. He's lucky he survived last season.
9-7 he stays. 8-8 he gone. Cause that means we lost to the jets or minnesota. Neither one is acceptable
I'd just say both Dave Wannstedt (twice) and Tony Sparano have posted 11-win seasons while coaching Miami. Both did it in their first years as head coach. They surely had their flaws, just as Joe Philbin does, but they both experienced more success to this point. Say what you will about Tony Sparano, but the team he was hired into was far less talented than the team Joe Philbin inherited.
He's getting better. Getting rid of him because you want a coach out of the gate that is great is like getting rid of your wife because you hope to one day meet and woo Scarlet Johansen.
Also the easiest schedule we've had in the last twenty years. And Chad pennington miraculously stayed healthy a full season. 2008 was a miracle
If the record is the deciding factor between saying Wannidiot was a better coach than Philbin or hell, even Saban, then I'm not sure why I'm even having this discussion.
I really liked Sparano. Hate how that debacle went down. That's pretty much all I will say about that. But with Sparano, I think we saw a little bit of regression later on. I think with this team, we are seeing progression. I think. I hope. I am willing to let this thing play out before saying yes or no on the coach. I feel like there is something good going on here. It's just a very slow process. Maybe a little too slow. Let's see if Philbin has the guts to wrench it up a notch.
I think we all know that Nick Saban is the best coach Miami has had since Jimmy Johnson. He screwed up not signing Drew Brees and took on GM duties that weighed him down. But, X's and O's wise, he's a top 5 coach on any level of football. If improving from 7-9 to 9-7 record wise is a mark for keeping Joe Philbin when "idiots" like Sparano and Wannstedt achieved better records, what is that really saying?
Or you could say he has had a team with more talent than what Wannstedt, Sparano and Saban had, and a better QB, but has basically the same record that those guys had (and a fair amount worse than Wannstedt). I don't think he's a terrible coach, but I don't think he's great either. I do think his staff is solid and that is a big part of the job, but when you are a hands-off HC I do expect better game management than I've seen from him. Again yesterday, poor usage of timeouts hurt us. The 1st one of the second half, at 6:23 on a 2nd and 1 from the Dolphins 16 was ill-advised. It was not a critical down/distance. At that point, in a 28-25 game, it was pretty clear that timeouts at the end would be critical. We wasted one there, only to have Denver immediately pick up a 1st down and then score a TD 3 plays after that. If we'd had that timeout at the end, we could have been in position to get the ball back down 3 with between a minute and 1:25 left if we had made the defensive stop. We didn't get the defensive stop, so maybe it didn't ultimately matter, but Denver might have played it very differently if we'd had the extra TO. In any event, it was something that I wouldn't make a deal of if he didn't seem to have a history of poor time out usage. All in all, Philbin is not incompetent and I don't fire him just for the sake of making a change, but if there is a better coach available, I don't bypass him in order to keep Philbin or give him another year. I think Harbaugh is a douchebag, but I also think he's a better coach. I'd love to have Malzahn. Whether we could get either fo those guys remains to be seen, but I tend to think if you are willing to give them enough money and power you can get-range them. Coaches don't count against the cap, and for the price of a mid-range veteran starting QB you can give a coach a deal that would be very hard to turn down.
Not quite buying the wife analogy. That involves love and respect. In a business setting,that is based on results, I would ALWAYS have my eye on better people or an upgrade. This is still a game but much more a business. If I have a company that is doing ok or improving slightly, I would JUMP at the oppurtunity to grab an experienced proven leader. There are no guarrantees that the new guy would get better results, but I would definately like my odds.
Saban was not very good when he was here. At all. And I don't think thereis any real evidence that it was the GM duties that weighed him down.
That's how I see it.. But I gotta be honest.. Short of a win in the playoffs... Id look to upgrade. I just don't see what he has brought to the table to win us games.
That's fine to think that, IMO, but yet, he still had a winning record in his first season (9-7, with Gus Frerotte & Sage Rosenfels) with a lot less talent than Joe Philbin has now. The lack of talent, IMO, was his biggest problem, and wasn't he pretty much the de facto GM? I know Randy Mueller was there, but...it's Randy Mueller.
My issue with Philbin is I believe he is to stubborn in some of his ways he handles things. I look at it this way... If we can upgrade a position.. Why can't we upgrade the head coach.
The "regression" under Sparano was basically the difference between having a smart, veteran MVP runner-up and having a young Chad Henne as your starter and going from #1 in the league in turnover differential to #30 (and coaching has little to do with turnovers).
That's how low our standards are now. A coach goes from 7-9 to 9-7 in 3 years and that's progress. By that measure, if he took our team from 1-15 to 3-13 after 3 years, we should keep him.
In the NFL that sort of treatment alienates you from coaching prospects and if that first guy doesn't work you end up with only c-listers taking the job next. People are not disposable resources.
Yeah, he had less talent at QB, but more at others. There was no huge lack of talent overall. He had Ricky and young Ronnie at RB. Chambers, Booker and Welker at WR. A decent receiving TE in McMichael. Zach, JT, Seau and Madison on D (all as vets but still productive players). Some good vet DLs (KCarter, VHolliday, KTraylor). Etc. IIRC, Saban had final say on personnel, but he wasn't handlign the day-to-day GM duties such that it would have interfered with his coaching.
I agree with this & I think this is the way it should be.Sparano got fired because we were constantly underachieving at the end of the year. Not because we were horrible. If this Coach cannot get us to the playoffs, he needs to go...period.
Hypotheticals can go both ways. I'm fine with dumping him...but where is the puppet that is gonna care take and not blow up a talented team? The one you want (and most fans want) has a big enough ego to rip apart a offense that is better than any he has had. That makes me nervous.
I don't think there is any real evidence of that. I think if you give enough money and control you can get just about any A-lister you want.
what does this mean? We are one game over .500. that's what we were when he got here. Has not been a great improvement. There hasn't been anything we're doing great now that we weren't doing okay before you got here. This game is about winning. He is not doing it near enough right now to warrant coming back.
