11-5 OR bust

OK.

Is it the way I phrased it?

There are other reasons - like betting? Teams matter because your able to bet?

 

Brother I hope so.

I just don't see us winning 4 out of the next 5. With NE in our division, it is a monumental task

You have no idea how bad I want us to win....we are sooooooooo close

 

I'm concerned Lazor will be gone regardless.

There is no certainty for Philbin. Everyone knows he is on shaky ground. I think this is Lazor's showcase for bigger and better. I am not sure what his personal goals are; head coach, etc

But I am pretty sure if an offer comes along that in his mind is to good to be true, he's a goner.

 

The concept of getting to the playoffs is not critical to becoming a perennial winner. We got to the playoffs in early 2000's and in 2008 and were not a perennial winner.

The concept of establishing and maintaining a stable system with proven success record is critical to becoming a perennial winner, and we have that, for the first time in decades. That is something jimmy, Parcells, Saban were hired to established, and failed (some HOFers!). Something we've been waiting for here for decades.

 

I have always had a propensity to look at the mark of 10-6 as mediocre. 10-6 is 2 games above .500. Although I recognize this kind of has been the tipping point for making the playoffs.

 

Lazor would have to get a promotion from OC to be able to leave on his own, right? I don't think any team is willing to give him a HC job after being just a QB coach one year and then first time OC the next. I doubt anyone would want to make him their assistant HC with such a small sample size. He needs to prove more before other teams are ready to go all in.

 

I'm thinking 10-6 has a good chance of getting in. I think the Chiefs will get the 5th seed. Then the 6th seed will either go to the Dolphins, Steelers, or Ravens. Good thing the Dolphins got the tiebreaker right now thanks to conference record. Man I hate the NFC South. Lol

 

Well how about the 4th and 20 in Denver game. Our corner (not sure-Taylor) bit on a double move at the 8yrd mark and got toasted. So instead of going in 21-10 it was 21-17 with Denver getting the ball to start the second half. WTF - play of the game and no buddy coached the guy up ( who bites on a double at 8 when you need 20)

 

this whole baby-step idea is just that is full of holes in philosophy and can be dangerous. Baby-step ideas breed stagnation.

The object of the season is to find out who the best 12 teams are and have them compete for a chance to Win the Superbowl.

The goal, each and every year, is and always should be, to win the super-bowl

There is no Trophy for second place and no one remembers the loser

No one says ohh I want to be just like the second place team

You are either first or you are last

You either buy in or you don't.

The whole idea of the baby step approach is for one to make themselves feel good. Like one has accomplished something. Selfish concept ----really!!!

Even though the person or persons operating under this concept are really striving to do what?????

WIN the Super-bowl

 

There has to be progress before a Super Bowl. A team needs playoff experience. Can't tell you a time when someone has gone from a nonplayoff team to winning the Super Bowl. The Colts with Manning had been to the playoffs for years before winning it all. The Seahawks before winning the Super Bowl had already been to the playoffs a couple years. Same with the Ravens. They were a regular playoff team before they won the Super Bowl. Same with Rodgers and the Packers. They had already consistently made the playoffs before winning it all. I could go on and on. It would be great if this team could get some playoff experience for our young guys Tannehill, Miller, Landry, etc. Rome wasn't built in one day. If you don't win the Super Bowl doesn't mean season was a failure. So yeah progress or "baby steps" is needed.

 

I see what your saying. I guess that is where success gets defined. Success to me is not to just develop those things, although they are part of being able to win the super-bowl. The goal is and always should be to win the super-bowl. Anything else is short sighted. Getting to the playoffs is not going to happen just like 2008 and 2001, 2000, if we don't have those systems in place. To be a perennial (yearly) winner you must get to the playoffs. Then again what is the definition of winner. Only one team can win the super-bowl which is the whole object of the season and playoff's - right? Maybe under this theory there is no such thing as a perennial winner??

I have yet to hear anyone happy with being 10-6 and not making the playoffs. The best example i could give is New England. People are already talking about them going to the super-bowl this year. Each piece is built from with in and substitutable. Bellicheck delegates and expects nothing but perfection from each piece. He dictates the culture of the Franchise and they win a lot as a result. Setting the culture attracts the better coaches and players. The culture is established by surrounding yourself with good and sometimes great assistant's. Until this year, those assistants were absent. Philbin even went as far as to refuse to get rid of guys that everyone knew were part of the problem. It is no coincidence that Sherman and Co. were fired and now we are coming on strong. Strong enough that we are the most dangerous team in the NFL right now and getting stronger every week. People are now questioning how much Philbin even has to do with the change.

Success is 1972 and 1973

everything else has been a failure. There are ups and downs and I am by no means saying we have not won some games over the years, and it has been fun doing it. But "IT" has always been with the ultimate goal being the Super-bowl. There is no trophy for second place.

 

Sometimes the biggest rewards are the chances we take in life. Ask Bill Gates,Mark Zuckerburg or Mark Cuban. Which is the irony, isn't it. Ross is also a billionaire.

I agree and you may be right about the experience. But what if this guy is the next Bellicheck? Do we let that walk?

That's a tough call, a call I cringe thinking about with Ross as our owner.

 

one win does it for you?

 

One win last year was a pretty big freaking deal.

 

If it means the playoffs? Absolutely.

But my point was, if we finish 10-6 an argument can be made we are progressing under this regime even if 10-6 doesn't get us in. Personally, I'm not sold on Philbin as a HC either way.
I think the 10-6 argument is going to be moot anyway. I think we are losing to the Pats and Ravens to finish 9-7. Might even find a way to shat the bed once against the Jets...we seem to every season.

 

There is always progress (for lack of better term) before a super-bowl. Of course. Playoff experience?? This years team will have absolutely nothing to do with next years record except that the coaches can decide which players they are going to replace or retain. or, which coaches they may need to upgrade. Most games are decided by 6-8 plays or less. You either win those plays or you don't.

So if this "Baby step" formula is so important please list for me the baby steps. They must be known??

If you don't win the super-bowl the season IS a failure. We have been trying the baby step approach for 42 yrs now. Where has it gotten us?? No one remembers the loser, and there can only be one winner.

Had this conversation several times on this board.

It starts with culture - Culture to except nothing but the best. Culture is set by the Head Coach and Owner. What do you think Jerry Jones idea of culture in Dallas is?? Is there any doubt in your mind that his goal is to win the super-bowl every year. Do you think Bellicheck goes into the season thinking if only I can make the playoffs. Hell no!! The man settles for nothing less then the Trophy. That's culture and it is where it starts, not oh great we are 10-6. we improved from last year's 9-7 fiasco. Baby Step. Maybe next year we can get to 10-6 again and make the playoffs. It sets the bar, and players and coaches will try to achieve what ever bar is set.

 

Holding our guys to a higher standard, and taking action when they don't..

 

And how has that culture worked for Jerry Jones? He is so bent on winning a Super Bowl.. Yet won't do the one thing needed for him to get there. Fire himself as GM.

 

I think there is a literal benchmark.. And an ultimate goal. They are different. The ultimate goal is to win it all. Nobody ever had the goal to come up short. Only one team can do that. If that is your benchmark.. And your culture has set that benchmark.. Then you're destined to be a failure 95% of the time. Benchmarks get moved. We haven't been to the playoffs since 2008..so getting to the playoffs this season is a reasonable benchmark. Which means next season your benchmark for success must be higher. Winning the division.

 

Have to win 4 at least, anything less its over

 

point I was trying to make

well said

 

I know he has the Al Davis disease

 

I agree. However when you factor in human nature and the bar is set low, players will not try to over achieve. If over achieving is an expectation than that is different.

 

So it's realistic for the Raiders to expect a Super Bowl this year or should they have more realistic goals until they're ready to contend? Nope there needs to be progression.

 

No one said there didn't need to be progression. Every team needs to progress or get better for a lack of better term. Just because you improve or progress doesn't mean it translates into wins. If you set the expectation level at 10 wins - 95% of the time the team will under achieve because it is human nature to put forth only the effort that gets you praised for achieving the goal set. People are remarkably resilient and I see it all the time because I teach Martial arts, coach little league football and I am now coaching basketball. The idea of the game is to win. It sucks but if we loose we are in fact losers. No team will over achieve and magically make it to the super-bowl. Usually the teams that win the super-bowl are psychological copies of their coaches in different ways and are aggressive. I would love to see someone analyze the top ten Qb's and coaches. I bet we would find they have similar personalities. Aren't we seeing Chip Kelly's philosophy of pour it on and don't let up. Weather Lazor and Co learned it and brought it here is a whole other thread. I think we are light years in aggression from where we were last year and I am excited. I hope it continues. Do I think its because of Joe Philbin - no its not, he kneeled on the ball with 1:30 left in the half rather then try and score. Speaks volumes to me.

If this is true? Maybe it isn't. Observations I have made over the years. does Philbin have the personality to get us there. IMO - No.