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So are you ok with extending Philbin and co?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Holy nonfactual, batman.
    Reread the bold part from Tannehill's lips.

    LMAO!! Philbin has done such a significant job with our most talented roster of the past 10 years that he's 21-22 [.488]. Yes yes, there's so much separation between Philbin's "worthwhile" record and the fired Tony Sparano's 29-32 [.475] that a group of narcoleptic firework technicians could count the vast win differential on 10 hands..... if those hands were missing 49 fingers.
     
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  2. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Relax Dez and watch us close out the season 9-0. And enjoy the ride while you watch Lazor work his magic !
     
  3. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Dez can speak for himself but there is not a huge difference in basic tenets of this year's offense from what I can see. The 3x1 is still the base formation, with the occasional 2TE set, last week we used 4x1 for the first time, probably due to Clay being out.

    Its still a zone blocking, quick pass style. There's more motion, shotgun, screens and zone read. But those are tactical differences, the overall offensive philosophy hasn't changed and Philbin's stamp remains clearly visible.

    The biggest diff I've seen is the pass pro. Lazor dares team's to blitz with 5 man routes whereas Sherm left extra blockers in to help. I think we all know why that is.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't wanna hear any more crap about the zone read being a fad, chip kelly runs the whole offense thru the formation, is winning with Sanchez, and to reiterate what Aikman said, has only scratched the surface..

    NFL and read option naysayers better check themselves.

    Oh yeah, and Ryan tannehill has the highest rushing average in the league for anyone who has touched the ball more than 40 times, and it ain't because he's running it on his own.
     
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  5. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    The problem is you can't decide this right now.

    Last year, it looked like we were going great after beating the Pats and having the Bills and Jets as the final two games. Looked like we were in the playoffs and, in spite of an up and down season, we were peaking. Then ... Bam. We were horrific. In two games the team looked like a young, on the rise team to terrible.

    I guarantee the impressions of the coach from the end of the Pats game to the end of the Jets game two weeks later changed radically.

    The one positive this year has been the offensive playmaking. This seems to have little to do with Philbin, imo, but is about Lazor and some building talent. The defense, on the other hand, while looking great at times has shown itself to be seriously vulnerable in late game situations.

    Bottom line: It is just too early to tell. What if they lose 5 in a row? Very different than if they win 5 in a row. And even if they finish 9-7 a good bit may have to do with how the games are played. I don't think any decision cannot be made until the season ends.
     
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  6. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Philbin didnt like them .:wink2:
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Parcells let Jason Taylor go to the Jets. For that and many other travesties, he can eat every bag of ***** he can shove in his ample front butt. **** him & **** his ego.
     
  8. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    It is completely different. Different terminology.. Different reads, routes.. Etc.

    The way it was explained to me is.. We run a system very similar to Philadelphia. Our passing game has various concepts in it including some of the air Coryell.

    Alot of the information of our offensive concepts can be found in Club.. But can't be really said out here because sources need to be protected.. But it really is a very deep complicated offense.
     
  9. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Just to throw this out there.. And Im not "selling" club. But you can't begin to imagine how worth it the price is. Just so much information that your not going to get anywhere else.. For those who really enjoy getting into the Xs and Os.. Cant beat it anywhere on the net.
     
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  10. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Its Club members like you that doesnt make it necessary to promote Club membership.Word of Mouth or in this case word of type is the best form of Advertising.:yes:
     
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  11. Fins Hipster

    Fins Hipster Banned

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    Only against teams with QBs to whom all defenses are vulnerable in such situations, unless the defense is among the best of all time ('85 Bears, '02 Ravens, '13 Seahawks, etc.). It's a little much to ask the defense to function like that. What it needs is help from the offense in the clutch, and that starts with the QB.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's stupid. Allowing over 30 points is the defenses fault. Just stop with the hate already.
     
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  13. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    They still average 35 a game at mile high even after having played 4 of the top defenses in the league. Only the Chiefs held them to under 30 and both the Cardinals and the 49ers gave up 40+. In todays NFL an elite QB on his best day will beat an elite defense 100% of the time, that's just the way the league is now.
     
  14. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Agree but if Ross is truly interested in replacing Philbin i would think it's already underway.. but lets ask it this way - so we have 5 games left im saying we got 3-2 in that stretch.. Im tossing in a loss to Baltimore or the Jets and the New England game. so we end up 9-7 or possible 10-6 but missing the playoff's once again. Ross mandated Playoffs but we see progress... Like I said I don't like Philbin on Gameday, but it's hard to fire an 9-7 10-6 coach unless you 100% have a sure fire (and those dont exist) coach..

    Harbaugh is going to be available I believe as SF and him seem to be going in different directions and their record is dropping as well. Not sure I want damaged goods.. But say you get Harbuagh as Headcoach and Rex ryan as Def Coordinator. That might be interesting enough to do..
     
  15. Fins Hipster

    Fins Hipster Banned

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    Precisely. And you won't beat those teams routinely unless you have such a QB, or you have a somewhat lesser QB (Alex Smith, Flacco, Tannehill, etc.) combined with a historically great defense. You may get a fluke win here or there based on turnovers or other random events, but you won't win routinely, and you won't be highly competitive in the league.
     
  16. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I almost hope we finish 10-6 and miss the playoffs just to see if this "mandate" insider information is true. I would bet money its not, and I'm pretty sure Philbin is safe at 9-7 whether we get in or not.
     
  17. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You can say that, nobody knows exactly what is or will happen. but people aren't making up the information just to sound important.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you have us winning 4 out of 5?, you confident?
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Average. Average inherently implies that it is absolutely possible and not uncommon to hold a team like that under that amount of points. I'd also like to point out, that had the defense held the Broncos to the average of 35 pts, we'd have won that game. 36-35.

    No matter what way you look at it, the defense cost us the Denver win.
     
  20. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, there's no doubt (since this thread is all of us 'playing owner') that if I were the owner I'd be thinking about what to do at the end of the season and have several options on the table.

    But, I think we are in agreement that no way would we make a decision pos/neg on Philbin at this point. I highly doubt this, but other teams (2007 Giants) have been in worse shape and made a huge run at the end of the year to win the SB. Caughlin was on the verge of being fired.

    There are two significant issues, imo, in going with a new HC that have to be worked through:

    1) Lazor. For a first year OC, I think he's done a great job. There have been some struggles in play calling at times but part of that has to be tied to Philbin. Nevertheless, suppose we go 8-8 but the offense keeps clicking and Philbin is let go? Can we convince a new HC to keep the offense? A wise HC would keep him but will a hard-*** like Harbaugh do so? And, the other factor is that RT is in his 3rd year and on his 2nd OC / 2nd Offense. Do you really want a 4th year and a 3rd offense?

    2) The GM. So far, I think the GM has been decent but it's really unclear - the jury is still out. I like him okay though. But would a new HC buy into this set up? That's tough to tell.

    This second point also becomes part of the problem with hiring a new HC. Can you get a premium level HC with the current set up of an unproven GM?

    Personally, part of this depends on Philbin, imo. Can he grow as a coach? I'd love to see him grow and be more open to innovation (same with Lazor) and risk - and I think if we get a few more wins (to 10) I think the players will continue to have confidence in him.

    Of course, it would also be great to find another Belichick out there!
     
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  21. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    You must be trolling, a relative of Philbin..or just bash!t crazy.

    We are on pace to score over 400 points this season. We have not scored over 400 points since 1986.

    Bill Lazor and Ryan Tannehill need streets named after them. These guys cannot go anywhere.
     
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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Can you imagine if Philbin were able to get through to Vontae like Pagano did and we now have him and Grimes manning the outside?
    Here's a fun snippet from an Indy article:

    And how 'bout if Joe hadn't foolishly decided to not retain Todd Bowles and rather promoted him to DC like he deserved?
     
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  23. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    No you are batshat crazy. The guy who put everything together is Joe Philbin, the master mind, the man with the plan who delivered. And you are going to learn to appreciate and kiss his feet for what he's done.
     
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  24. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    ahhh. gotcha. very good. very good. :wink2:
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I think we should win 4. We should win the 3 against inferior teams, and we should at least split the 2 games with Balt & Indy..... but after the bitter end to last season, I'm not confident Philbin will have this team doing what it should be doing, so I'm bracing for 3-2 unfortunately.
     
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  26. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're not alone Todd. Those are my thoughts. And there are some pretty eerie coincidences that are scheduled or could potentially happen.

    1) Miami could get to 8-6...just like last year. We know how that worked out.
    2) The 2nd to last game is against Minnesota...just like 2002. #LobsterTrap
    3) The finale like last year is a home game against the Jets.
    4) The 3rd to last game is at New England...just like 2003. Miami lost that and couldn't get into the playoffs even with 10 wins.

    Makes me queasy. :shifty:
     
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  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    What exactly was his plan? You keep citing things, but you've yet to actually specify anything he's actively done.
     
  28. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    lmao.
     
  29. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    rEziZtaNcE iZ fuTiLeZZsZoMG
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ohhhh, ok, so you think were gonna lose a game we should win.


    both jets games and the vikings are to be expected from this team at this time, especially considering our finish last year, the real benchmark for whether or not this team is progressing is the ravens at home, their gonna come into our building with 20 k on their side and their dongs on the field, if we can't cut them up real good at home, then were not progressing overall..period.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    wow, y'all really think this head coach is gonna fu## this team up.
     
  32. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, we've seen bad coaching decisions cost the Green Bay game, and well, it happened last year in a very similar situation. I hope to be proven wrong and Miami goes 10-6. That said, there are still scenarios where that doesn't get Miami into the playoffs. It should, but it's not guaranteed.
     
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  33. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Green Bay game could have been won w/ another first down by the O, better coverage on the punt team and/or a stop by the D including Finnegan not needing to make a spectacular play, just getting him down after just a few yards.
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree that mistakes have been made, but that's why I have this 4 out of 5 ultimatum, if he's doing something right they will take care of that business, if they lose one of those four, we're not progressing as a team, the circumstances have been aligned with the progression test coming at home vrs the Ravens..

    I feel from what I've seen we can get it done..if not We should all be pissed off cause there will be pretty clear data that were not progressing as a whole.
     
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  35. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, and I think the Ravens game will be very telling. Well, check that, a loss to the Jets would be devastatingly telling. To lose against a team that's 1) checked out - see MNF last week; 2) Joe Philbin's record against the AFC East would drop to 6-10 over 3 years; and 3) it'd be a near death-blow to Miami's current playoff hopes.

    That being said, I think Miami beats the Jets. After all, the road team is 4-0 in this series since Philbin has been the head coach and Miami for whatever reason has played two of their best games in New York under Philbin (30-9 in 2012 and 23-3 with a 2nd half beatdown in 2013). I expect to win that game.

    Back to the Ravens, that's a telling game to me. They're exactly the kind of team Miami's struggle against this year. Believe it or not, Baltimore's actually 6th in the NFL in points score (26.8 per game) and they run the ball well (132.4 ypg, 6th in the NFL), which is something Miami's generally struggled against, plus you have the Jets who will probably try to run it a lot against Miami on MNF and it's a short week. Baltimore is good at stopping the run (88.3 ypg, 6th in the league) and they don't give up many points (18.9, also 6th in the league). When Miami's not been able to run well, they've typically struggled this year (Detroit stands out). Elvis Dumervil is having the quietest 12.5 sack season I can remember. But, they do give up big chunks in the passing game. I'd like to see if Miami comes out in that game willing to put the ball downfield more. Not necessarily chucking 50+ yarders to Mike Wallace, but can they give Tannehill time to get to intermediate routes with Hartline, Landry/Gibson and Clay?

    Do they become aggressive with some pretty big stakes on the line this game? After reading Section's report re: Denver in Club, I just have a hard time seeing it. Hopefully they take care of business against the Jets on Monday to setup the big stakes for the Ravens game.
     
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  36. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Like I've noted previously, guys in Indy for instance will run through a brick wall for their head coach. They love Pagano. He knows how to tap into their best inner player. He gets them prepared, and he gets them up or keeps them up in crucial moments. He leads, provides direction, and inspiration. He radiates energy and passion which flows through his team. You can see his personality in his team, how they play, and how they fight for close games in the 4th quarter.

    Then compare that to Philbin and his team. I've never heard mention or player quotes of something akin to running through a wall for him. Watch us in tight 4th quarter games and we seem to play like Joe's personality, with his team appearing flat and directionless like they're missing that one integral piece that cohesively pushes them forward, inspires confidence, gets them mentally & emotionally prepared for the 4th quarter, and has them zoned in during close games to seize the win like they own it. When considering Joe's softer spoken, less emotional, less inspirational coaching personality and the fact he essentially dissolved the team's Leadership Council and sent emotional, passionate guys packing for being outspoken, none of this 4th quarter collapse stuff surprises me. Joe commits the biggest no no of all- he negatively reinforces positive behavior. He selfishly and dictatorially conveys to the team that if they as individuals wanna become outspoken leaders, there's a chance they might be sent packing or not re-signed like Dansby, Bush, and Long. It'd be one thing if he wanted this role to himself because he's the greatest leader and motivator on the team, but I don't think Joe could motivate or inspire my dog to lick his own butt if it were dipped in jelly.
     
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  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    .... or we continue this year's trend of losing games to good teams that we're capable of beating and we suffer losses to NE and Balt.
     
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  38. Phinfanjt

    Phinfanjt New Member

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    This is comedy gold :up:
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Wah wah wah, stop blame-shifting and downplaying the responsibility of a head coach. The game would've been won with better coaching decisions, you know- since those are the instances where the opponent doesn't have a chance to stop you, unlike the "another first down by the O" solution you speak of as if Green Bay's D would simply lay down for us just because you want the first down. You can't control a 1st down, but a head coach can control his decisions, how well he gets his team prepared for the 4th quarter, and the collective mindset he instills in his team in close games. If Philbin made better decisions [like great coaches do], had his team better mentally prepared [like great coaches do], and were capable of motivating/inspiring his team in crunch time [like many great coaches do], Mike McCarthy wouldn't be able to run across the field and physically stop him from making a successful decision and getting his team zoned in to preserve the victory.
     
  40. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Cmon man, you're better than that.
     
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