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Is the deep ball that important?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by speed, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    It's a message board....

    What if someone were to dig up all the negative posts about Ryan, then take them to another forum and try and use that as an example for anything?? Would it matter?
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Hahahahahaha. That was awesome.
     
  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Your definition of "substance" is the problem....

    I know it hurts, just click that ignore feature, and you will feel no more.
     
  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I thought that was kind of obvious. :dunno:
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It was. Didn't stop CiF from missing it entirely.....which made it awesome. Its even better, you and him agree.


    Btw, you still believe a $60 million WR only has to run fast and not worry about catching the ball or running correct routes? Cause that's the same kind of awesome.
     
  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You got me there. I do recall saying Mike Wallace ONLY needs to run fast and that's all.....

    Seriously? The BS that gets thrown in to some of these posts is comical with a touch of pathetic. Once again another statement NOBODY has made is getting throw into the debate.

    What am I going to do with you guys?
     
  7. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    Every time I start feeling bad for Mike Wallace not getting the deep ball, he drops a TD.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Horse****, you've made that the entirety of your argument. Anytime anyone criticizes Wallace, all you talk about is how he gets passed the defender.

    I rarely agree with your opinions, but I used to think you at least had the sack to stick up for own opinion. This new denial is changing that perception.
     
  9. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Never underestimate the power of a hillbilly.
     
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  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Lololololol....only that's not my opinion. It's your perception of what I'm saying that is going into your brain, filtering to ridiculousness and coming out of your fingertips.

    You've said he NEVER fights for a ball----I disagree
    You've said he can't run a route----I disagree

    Mike Wallace is far from perfect, that drop he had last week was pathetic. He is not a top 10 WR yet he makes top 3 money...I get all that. But I'm not going to lay blame as far as the vaunted deep ball at the shoulders of the guy beating DBs on a regular basis only to be missed.

    The biggest issue is some know what Mike has ALWAYS been and others saw the contract and just assumed we signed Calvin Johnson.
     
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  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    It really does amaze me how people see different things. I see him way over throwing or way underthrowing passes. I see him throwing receivers out of bounds. You can deny all this all you want, BUT when the coaching staff stops calling the play something is wrong. When the national media that covers the team discuss the issue and laugh about it something is wrong.
     
  12. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    People are just looking for excuses as to why Tannehill can't do it. They want to blame everyone else but him. Omar Kelly today talked about how ridiculous it was how open Wallace gets on some of his routes, he is there live at the games and sees it. It was a nice clip to watch, he was really amazed at how wide open he gets. Of course the ball is thrown for 5 yards instead, but
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    And that's another issue I have with Ryan....I can't stand the check downs. But it's part of being a young QB, seeing the field.
     
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  14. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    The problem with some of that is that as the QB goes through his progressions, he is throwing to the first open receiver in the progression. That isn't always Mike Wallace, regardless of whatever Wallace is doing. Secondly, the reason Wallace often appears open is that the safeties are watching the QBs eyes as he goes thru the progression reads and are rolling towards where he is looking. We saw this against the NYJ on MNF. People were screaming that Wallace was open in the EZ for TD. They problem was that he was open because we were going elsewhere with the ball and the defense was reacting to it. Also, no QB sees everything that every receiver is doing every play.

    It was the same with one of the down field passes to Sims instead of Landry. Sims was higher in the progression and came open first. Tannehill delivered a 20 yard strike, yet everyone was screaming that he should have thrown to Landry. Tirico commented on it and Gruden corrected him.

    The other thing we're seeing is that Satale is getting blown back into the pocket more frequently the past 4 games. To deliver an accurate ball, he has to be able to step into throws, we're not seeing that as much as we need.

    What is also being missed in all this is that we've lost our power run game with the loss of Moreno. A lot of the shorter, underneath stuff is replacing the runs. A 4-7 yard gain is still a 4-7 yard gain. It also keeps the defense from pinning it's ears back and tee-ing off on the QB.
     
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  15. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill is in the shotgun, they have to push Satale WAY back therefore that is a valid arguement.

    We would not have had a power running game with Moreno anyway, that is not part of the offense. The Eagles do not have one, just not part of the offense.

    Gruden did correct, but later you could hear in his voice like, "oh gosh, how did he not see that guy wide open."
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Shotgun isn't really farther back, it's just there's no drop involved to get there. Let's not act like Satele being pushed back isn't an issue.
     
  17. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Satele: Overall -5.6, pass -5.9. run +2.1. Has given up 2 sacks, 7 hits, and 7 hurries.
    Colledge: Overall -13.5, pass -3.6, run -11.3. Has given up 5 sacks, 2 hits, and 6 hurries.

    Hoping we pick up a FA guard from SF or SEA this off-season and put Pouncey back at Center.

    Gruden's an excitable guy. Not sure I'd read too much into his voice inflection. It looks completely different from the field when you have 6-3+ guys jumping around in front you and you have less than 3 ticks to find an open receiver and get the ball out. Lazor made the comment early in the season that Tannehill has to get the ball at the bottom of his drop and trust his receivers to do their job. Part of their job is running good routes, creating separation, making a guy miss, and getting YAC. Gruden also said during the game "You can't see everything".

    Hoping we get a receiver or two over 6-1 and 215 or more this off-season to replace Hartline and Gibson. We need more downfield targets than just Wallace.
     
  18. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Consider it done
     
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  19. speed

    speed Banned

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    Haters are just going to hate no matter what. Logic doesn't work on them. They can't see that WRs drop more deep passes than any team in the NFL, they can't understand that the QB needs more than 2 seconds to throw it deep. They think it works like Madden.

    It's best to ignore them and not be subjected to their sub-quality posting.
     
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  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That has absolutely been your opinion. Its actually disgusting you're denying it now. Pathetic even.

    You're even going further with the lying by claiming you disagreed with him not fighting for the ball last year. Your argument then was that he never was the type of receiver who would fight for the ball so its crazy to think he would. Is this a compulsion for you?

    Also, as a reminder, this year I started a thread praising Wallace for actually starting to fight for the ball, which, of course, you said he wouldn't ever do.

    He doesn't run precise routes (as pointed out by numerous people most notably KB) and he has small catch radius and doesn't track the ball well in the air (as detailed by CK). None of which you EVER refuted with anything other than the equivalent of "that's not true" or "he got behind the defender".
     
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  21. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Your a bag of issues...

    I said he wasn't a Calvin Johnson type WR who you can throw it up and hope he comes down with it. NEVER would I make such a stupid *** statement because if you watch the Carolina game last season you would clearly see that the only plays made were great efforts of FIGHTING for the ball by Wallace.

    You have a comical way of putting words in your head from other people's posts. I'm not alone on this site when I say you need to really have a sit down with someone who can help you.

    I wish you the best, and that's the truth.
     
  22. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    We keep getting told that these issues with Wallace's overall game didn't exist in PB. They did exist. As for their weight and who they matter to, they are like stats - they only matter if it fits in with your opinion on a certain player.

    The Dolphins have a problem with completing deep passes. A lot of it IS on Tannehill, but it's also the OL and WRs. Unfortunately, Wallace is our only deep threat and we are forced to force the ball to him to get down field. We don't have an Antonio Brown or other receiving threat who can get down field, nor an OL who can give us a couple extra ticks to get something going. This is why the passes to Sims were so important the other night.

    There is also too much focus on the underneath stuff. Not everything is thrown BLS or within 5 yards.

    NYJ game play by play: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400554399

    Hoping to see more of Sims down field going forward. We need those chunk yardage plays.
     
  23. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    In the case of Fin D making false claims that I AGREED Wallace doesn't fight for the ball....

    Post #34
    http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?80293-Wallace-plans-on-doing-his-part/page2

    Don't worry I will get more, all this making stuff up is getting old....we are all adults so let's try to stick to the issue at hand and not play make believe.
     
  24. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I agree with everything you just said. Not sure what's happening in this thread but I feel like I'm on drugs.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  26. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    You didn't think Tannehill made great effort in the Carolina game as well? My lasting memory of that game was Tannehill scrambling away from pressure and buying time before getting absolutely creamed as he threw a 60 yard pass to Wallace, who dropped the game winning TD he had in his hands in the EZ.

    http://cmgpbpdailydolphin.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/wallace_nocatch1.jpg
     
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  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I mean....

    You called me a liar and claimed I agreed that Mike Wallace doesn't fight for the ball....

    I gave you just one example of me SHOWING you that wasn't my feelings at all...

    What more do you want? I've stuck to my guns on this issue for 2 years.
     
  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    TANNEHILL did a great job eluding pressure and getting the ball off that day, but Mike Wallace was in the zone....he adjusted to underthrows, he fought for the football and won.

    Why am I suddenly getting this hate that Iam anti-Tannehill?
     
  29. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    You've entered the FinD zone. :shifty: (JK Tony...)

    lol... perception is reality sometimes. People dwell on and remember negativity longer than anything positive. Everyone wants (or should want) both of these guys to succeed as it means the team succeeds. We just sometimes differ on who failed where at what point sometimes...

    Now you and Speed, Res, and FinD hug it out. ;-)
     
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  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's not what I accused you of.

    I think you're getting lost in all the stories you've told.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    wallace played with an elite qb his first four years in the league, those kinda guys have ways of making their receivers production skyrocket..thats what I chalk it up to.
     
  32. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Looked at Antonio Brown's numbers? Brown is catching 71% of the passes thrown to him and has 11 TDs to date this season. By comparison, Wallace is catching 55% of passes this season. In his best statistical seasons, he caught 63% of passes and 10 TDs from Ben.

    I can see where Steeler fans weren't enthralled with him for various reasons. Just wished he was correcting the physical stuff. Whether it's instincts, hand/eye coordination, or whatever, he misplays a fair number of otherwise catchable balls both here and while in PB...
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    *gives out hugs*
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    not sure what those numbers prove but I think the point still stands about Rothlesberger.

    ryan doesn't have an improv game at this point..a lot of the production that wallace had came from a qb who plays with a substantial percentage of improv...not hard to figure out.

    our offense and qb are trying to play in rhythm all the time, their offense and qb didn't care.
     
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  35. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    This is also one of the reasons Wallace struggled in 2012, even when Ben was healthy. They switched to a different offense with west coast concepts.
     
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  36. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    No, I think there is substance to that. Just wished we could replicate the production in yards and TDs from their together in 2010-2011. My point was that if Ben made him what he was in PB, he'd have never had anywhere near that success there otherwise.
     
  37. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    That could be... in 2012, at 21+ yards passing, Ben was 5 of 31 with 2 drops to Wallace.

    2012 - With Ben R at QB:
    BLS: 10 recs, 0 TDs
    1-10: 33 recs, 2 TDs
    11-20: 15 recs, 2 TDs
    21-30: 1 recs, 1 TD
    31-40: 1 recs, 1 TD
    41+: 3 recs, 2 TDs
     
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  38. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Chambers is as bad as everybody thinks he is. Sure, he drops a few passes, but the team never would have won that game in Buffalo without him.

    /timewarp
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    /end argument
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    At least he connected on 3 41+ yarders.
     

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