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Free at last Free at last..lets go scouting boys..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Dec 7, 2014.

  1. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    ok peeps I agree with the original poster and would like to say the excusses has to stop . How long will we continue to work on the oline , how many drafts will we be spending before the issue is fixed . we need linebackers ,not one but probably three linebackers two in free agency and one in the draft .

    why has Miami had such bad offenses or bad defenses just once I would like to see us become great on both sides of the ball . I am sick of wining 7 or 8 games and not becoming better in the process.

    Dallas Cowboys got Demarco Murray rb , Dez Bryant and they have two other wrs plus two tightends all who make plays consistently . Miami seems to always settle for less we get Marshall then turn around and trade him. if we are to be relevant we have stop going half the way .
     
  2. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's all on Philbin changing the game plan cause he feels QUEASY !!
     
  3. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    The good news is we just played a playoff game, got whooped and have good film on all weaknesses.
     
  4. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually, I think you might be chasing something of a ghost with that notion.

    All teams do that same thing. It's a very fundamental part of football strategy and play-calling.

    Rather than go to a low percentage, high-risk play that may isolate one person with the game on the line, traditional logic says you ask your players to execute a play they all know well and have practiced many times.

    Those situations actually say very little about the coaches and more about the ability of the players to win their 1-on-1s in key situations. How many times have we seen the Pats convert on 4th and 1 with a simple little quick out after spreading the defense. Brady makes a simple read and an even simpler throw.

    I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, but there probably isn't a weaker way to support the argument you're making.


    When it's 1st and 10 during a crucial drive in the late 3rd quarter for example. That is when your ability to run the ball is truly tested. If it's 3rd and 5, and you know the pressure will be on. It's then that your QB will be forced to deliver a well-timed and accurate pass. It's then that you'll know how well your WRs run routes and if they're truly able to get that extra 3" of separation that is so crucial.

    It's on those drives that we've seen Hartline and Gibson begin to fail us this year--our running game as well. I'd love to say we run the ball well late in games, but truthfully we haven't done it all that well when we've tried to.

    Those moments tell you a lot about your team, but not much about the coaching.
     
  5. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    WoooooooooHooooooooooo !!!!PHILBIN WILL BE FIRED SOON !!!!
     
  6. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Dude I'm just regurgitating what I heard listening to Cowherd on radio.. Im just assuming he knew what he was talking about.
     
  7. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    VT, did somebody just hack your account?
     
  8. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You heard this or making it up?
     
  9. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Huh?
     
  10. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just hoping..i'n sorry
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i said it was a ''part'' of the reason..ive explained why I've felt that way in detail..and I agree that our defense was just as to blame.

    you keep bit$$ing that I keep talking about underutilization of his skill set, yet we keep losing when we underutilize it..
     
  12. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You just said you were regurgitating something you heard Colin Cowherd said and that you assumed he knew what he was talking about. I assumed it wasn't you who posted that...

    Take it as a compliment.
     
  13. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    We need to stick with a coach for more than three years. We should be more like the Steelers. I do not see stability be achieved by a new coach in the short term.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I Agree with you on your take that of the plays that the team has practiced the most they should be the ones you go to in crunch situations..However, read option and rollouts should be practiced a lot considering it is a strength of the qb..maybe thats where the problem lyes..Coordinator and coach refuse to commit to the qbs strengths and just want to stick to their system without much deviation.
     
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  15. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Oh phew.. I thought you were being serious
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i too wanted philbin to achieve success based on the positive affects of continuity, but this was a game at home that just can't be taken lightly..I mean they lost their best defensive player right before the game, and still kicked our ***, this is the third year, after what happened last year, i don't think its forgivable, unless he wins out of course.
     
  17. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We need a tag for that. I should have used an emoticon of some sort...
     
  18. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    You have to know your personnel and your own tendencies because your opposition knows both.

    If you run a dive on first down in every critical situation, you can bet the farm an A-Gap blitz is coming and you'll likely suffer a loss setting up second and twelve. How many times have we seen this?

    Poor coaches try to run out the clock which rarely works nowadays. You have to stay within your game and execute for first downs.

    If you have Larry Allen, Erik Williams, Moose Johnston and Emmitt Smith, I'm all for staying conservative and running. Hell if we still had Moreno, you could probably sell me on the idea.
     
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  19. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    You can probably count his "above and beyond" plays like the TD to Mathews in the San Diego play on one hand. If you want to cheer for a great team you need a QB that has a few "above and beyond" plays a game, not a season. And on top of that you need a QB that plays his best at crunch time. Not having those things will cost you at least a few games a season, which means you'll be really hard pressed to win more than 8 or 9 games.
     
  20. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What kind of stability are you referring to? Miami's achieved the stability of being a 6-9 win team with two straight coaches. I think winning would be achieved with a new coach in the short-term.
     
  21. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And what does winning out do? It does NOT guarantee Miami being in the playoffs. IMO, it'd just guarantee we're right back in the same scenario next year.
     
  22. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    A QBs primary job is to set protections, get the team into the appropriate play and distribute the ball to the playmakers. Being a playmaker himself is not necessarily a required attribute. It's nice but it's not essential.

    What is lost on so many here is that although an excellent QB can mask some deficiencies, a top QB cannot overcome 2 second pressure without blitzing, a completely overwhelmed RT, critical drops, pre-snap penalties and big play killing penalties (Pouncey).

    If you want to build this team, you replace those that cannot play at a competent pro level, not the 93 rated QB throwing 21 TDs vs 9 picks simply because he struggles to overcome the ineptitude surrounding him.
     
  23. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're right about a lot of that. I think you have to stay aggressive more than we do at times.

    But then again, Philbin talks about doing quite a bit of self-scouting so I'm not inclined to suspect the play calling is completely indefensible.

    If there's anything about Philbin I can get behind, it's his awareness of various metrics and his urgency to prepare his coaching staff.

    I think those instances really come down to the O-line failing to execute more than anything else. I hate to put it on 1 group but by and large our QB makes clutch throws when he has time. If anything, he's a pretty cool guy. Our WRs also tend to make the catches when they're absolutely needed.

    Most of the issues I've seen come from pressure up the middle or runs that get stuffed.

    If I had to offer my take, I'd say that when our opponents D-line knows they need to get home, then can. That's the place we really fall short. When the chips are down and our O-line must win, they cannot.
     
  24. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Brilliantly said.
     
  25. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I concur as well.

    What Tannehill is failing to do is far less important than many other things going on with the Dolphins at this juncture.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    its a good defense, really, you make sense, but, what do your eyes tell you when protection breaks down?...its not hard to surround ryan with resources, but protection inevitably breaks down, so the question is, do you trust it at the highest level, competing for a championship?
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    it can improve, but unlike some, I don't think his escapability ceiling will ever get to their level...and thats ok, I don't expect that, I do expect if I'm gonna pay him 15 mil for next seasonl, I just expect a few runs from the pocket to threaten the defense, and a few more keepers on the read....thats all, and the fact that he doesn't, and were not in the playoffs again, means someone needs to at least look at that element of the game with him and start making him aware that it is available, and encouraged..
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    if he wins the next three I would have to take notice and re evaluate..dramatic turnaround would have to happen, and if it happens ill go down that road with ya..unless you wanna..lol
     
  29. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    It depends on why the protection is breaking down. Right now we are dealing with pressure from 4 down linemen with the remainder dropping into zone coverage. This is a recipe for an injured QB.

    Excluding blitzes with accompanying hot routes, if we could just find the defense playing man coverage, even if the pocket breaks down, there should be opportunities for big plays on the ground.

    I have found, however, that most successful QB running comes from receivers being unable to break free from coverage downfield and the QB scrambles to buy time. Rarely is there success when the down linemen are on the QB in an instant because the QB has yet to complete his drop, the receivers have yet to get into their route and they have no idea that the QB is under duress.

    Slightly off topic but one thing that's been bothering me for some time is the reliance on passer rating as a meaningful stat. This hasn't always been the case but today it seems to be the gospel. How can we have a stat that measures QB efficiency when the stat does not account for QB running, QB rushing TDs and QB fumbles?
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i see a lot of folks talking about what we need to to do to surround ryan with talent...

    so what is ryan gonna do to get better?, or, are you telling me I should just extrapolate his skill set the way it is now, put it with a better supporting cast and its all good? championship?
     
  31. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think without any major changes, stability along the line and another year in the system will yield playoff level results. T-Hill does not require superstars to prop him up, he just can't have the Dallas Thomas' of the world trying to get him killed. One thing that is an obvious need is a physical, multi purpose back.

    Where we really need to focus is on defense. This is a fraudulent unit that is averaging over 200 yards on the ground over the past three games. They've directly caused three (maybe four) losses and needs to be bolstered.

    There's no level of improvement that T-Hill can achieve that can overcome what's happening on defense.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    being in the moment..he should know in his third year that he should be consciously thinking about dropping, finding any lane and exploding up the middle, then stand up, spin the fu^% ball, and slap someones *** on the way back to the huddle.

    why don't you develop the equation and start a movement..if it did tannehills 6.4 rushing average would boost it.

    I'm watching late nite nfl gamely final with mike irvin and Dion, and I just listened to irvin babbe {literally} for 2 mins and couldn't make out a word he said, sounded like some james brown zabba zooba sh$$
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Running back..two lineman..2nd receiver...

    the rest for defense.
     
  34. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think Turner will be good to go at one of the guard positions. We need another option at the other guard spot. There's been some talk of looking at V-Jax if released. I think a big possession WR will be a top priority. I was impressed with Clay today. This year was all about his knee. He should be re-signed. A RB that can grind between the tackles, catch and pass protect (basically Moreno) is a must.

    The problems on D are just too many to count. From coaching, to the interior line, to the physicality and instincts at LB, to the trainwreck that is the secondary and the misuse of Jordan. There is, however, a foundation for the future in Vernon, Mitchell, Jenkins, Jordan, Jones and maybe Taylor.
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's easy to say when Pittsburgh's last 2 head coaches were 31-17 and 32-16 through their first 3 seasons with 5 trips to the playoffs and 1 SB victory. Why would Pitt not stick with Tomlin & Cowher with that level of success? At 22-23, Philbin has done little to show he deserves such a long leash.

    If you think we should be more like the Steelers, then that would actually mean canning Philbin and hiring a HC who doesn't need 4 years to figure out how to win with a roster that's talented enough to own 4th quarter leads against Denver, Green Bay, New England, Detroit, and San Diego. Then he got out-coached by Rex Ryan last week and would've lost to the struggling 2-10 Jets if NY had something that resembled a QB.

    This current team is more talented, features better QB play, and has a better OC than the 2009-10 teams that Sparano yielded 7-9 records out of, yet here we are with Philbin- just 1 game over .500 after finishing 8-8 and squandering a playoff opportunity last year after losing 2 straight to teams with losing records. Now, if the team's improved talent, better QB play, and upgraded OC are enough to account for Miami going from 1 game under .500 with Sparano to 1 game over .500 this year by themselves, it begets the question- where's the head coaching impact? I'll tell you where. He's in Arizona. Bowles went 2-1 with the same team that Sparano went 4-9 with. Enter Joe Philbin who inherited a team that finished 2011 on a 6-3 note but lost 5 games in the 4th quarter (17-16 on a last minute TD to Cleveland; lost in OT to Denver after blowing a 15-0 lead late in the 4th qtr; lost 20-17 to NYG after blowing a 7 pt lead in the 4th qtr; lost 20-19 to Dallas on a last second FG; and lost 27-24 to New England after being tied 17-17 with 9 minutes to play)..... and Joe went 7-9 with it. His job as Sparano's replacement was to correct those crushing 4th qtr losses that helped get Tony fired, not add to them for 3 straight years. What's Joe here for if he can't fix those issues or get more out of this team than Sparano?

    Conversely, the Jets organization and its roster are somewhat of a mess but that didn't prevent Rex from taking his talent-deprived 29th ranked scoring offense and 19th ranked scoring D to the same 8-8 record last year that Philbin saw, except Rex overachieved and reached 8-8 by not blowing a single 4th qtr lead and by going 7-2 in close 4th qtr games, whereas Joe underachieved and was unable to surpass 8-8 thanks to going 7-6 in close 4th qtr games, by blowing 3 4th qtr leads, and by losing Miami's final 2 games against teams with inferior records. Miami was in 13 close 4th qtr games because the talent was there to be competitive all year; NY was in just 9 close 4th qtr games b/c their lesser talent saw them get outmatched much of the season which you can see by looking at their points for and against. Rex managed a .500 record out of an offense that averaged 18.1 pts/game and a defense that allowed 24.2, for a total point differential of -97. Joe managed a .500 record out of an offense that averaged 19.8 pts and a defense that averaged 20.9, for a total point differential of -18..... and the -18 is slightly misleading because that's where all the blown 4th qtr leads went to. Rex understandably couldn't overcome a glaring lack of roster talent for many of NY's games, but in those that he could keep close, he won and preserved leads. Joe on the other hand had enough roster talent to compete with everyone but New Orleans yet blew 4th qtr leads and lost a bunch of close 4th qtr games.

    It gets even worse. In 2010, Rex had a roster very comparable in talent to Philbin's 2014 squad, with a scoring differential of +3.9 pts/game compared to Miami's current +4.2, yet Rex went 9-3 in close 4th qtr games and again didn't blow a 4th qtr lead all season. Meanwhile, Joe has gone 3-5 in close 4th qtr games and has blown 3 4th qtr leads. The result: Rex finished 11-5 and was a goal line stop away from reaching the Super Bowl; Joe is 7-6 and appears to have our realistic hopes for the playoffs shattered in the final quarter of the season just as he shatters them in the final quarter of games.
     
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  36. jldolfan

    jldolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dude you CAN'T win, when every time you drop back you are immediately under pressure. When they moved the pocket he was under pressure from D lineman with the backers flowing as the secondary line of defense so where he going to run to. I did see some zone read plays and the Ravens too me stayed in their assignments preventing RT from running. To me we have the best QB we've had since Marino and you want to go shopping for another one. Let the kid develop for Christ sake. I equate This situation to the one in San Diego with Brees, instead of letting him develop they got antsy, drafted Rivers and let him walk. RT may not ever be A Brees, but I would like to find out...wouldn't you, doesn't that make sense?
     
  37. jldolfan

    jldolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly!
     
  38. pmj

    pmj New Member

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    how ow hard is it to get someone that does everything Ryan is doing now, but ALSO a game changing playmaker? Again, yes we can get some competition, but let's not act even most 1st round pick QBs end up better than Ryan is right now.
     
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  39. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    There are really only 3 or 4 truly elite QB's in the NFL today. Wilson may not yet be at that level, but he is a great deal closer to the top tier QB's in the NFL than Tannehill is. I believe if Wilson was the QB of this team and not Tannehill, this team would have won more games than it has so far this season.

    As far as Flacco is concerned. All you have to do is look at his record against the Dolphins and how many times he has led his team to the playoffs since he entered the league to realize he is a far superior QB when compared to Tannehill.
     
  40. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    The only reason Wilson is not considered elite on here is because he was selected after Tannehill. Most unbiased people that aren't Dolphin fans realize he was playing at a very high level and has the potential to be elite if he isn't already there. Over his first two years he was second in TD passes only to Marino.
     
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