1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Give me 5 reasons why Philbin should be retained ?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ASOT, Dec 8, 2014.

  1. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ

    There were 2 or 3 games this season that Philbin and mismanagement cost us the game. It was the final straw between winning and losing. If those 2 or 3 games went another way, we are not having this conversation. You have to look at the staff there, especially at a guy in year 3, who should start knowing better.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    i believe there are still scenarios for them to make it at 10 and 6, if they don't play hard against the pats its indicting.
     
  3. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    1. Players always get injured, it comes with the territory.

    3. That is absolutely his fault.
     
  4. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    For what it's worth, I've never seen a coach get grilled for calling time-outs the way people have done to Miami this year.

    Personally, I wouldn't want to base my argument around that line of thinking.

    Calling time-outs doesn't win or lose football games folks.
     
  5. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,682
    44,613
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    The first timeout he called on the final drive against the Packers ABSOLUTELY cost the Dolphins that game.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  6. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    immensely better in what way?

    Not record!!
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    1. He is a good Christian man with good family values.
    2. He is a human being and it isn't nice to fire someone.
    3. He makes good scones.
    4. He is really good at planning meetings.
    5. It is better to have a crappy coach in the hand rather than two crappy coaches in the bushes.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  8. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    YES! And YES!!!!


    Agreed, although I am not sure what his systems actually are so cannot weigh in on whether they are being run.


    - True, although I'd say the media like to highlight failures a bit more than successes. Have they dug to find out which successful players Coyle has championed? Maybe Coyle weighed in on Jenkins, or Mitchell and pounded the table for them too? Just sayin'.

    Definitely a big black mark that happened on Philbin's watch. It's like he is not fully present and aware of the human side of lockerooms.

    Hm. Not sure what to attribute this to. I mean, Ireland brings in a guy like Wallace, who has always run questionable routes... do we blame O'Keefe and Philbin. Btw, I prefer O'Keefe to Dorrell who did NADA to develop ANYONE here.


    Disagree. Tannehill is having his best year in part because Lazor DOES often adjust and put him in a position to succeed. The problem with Lazor is he has brainfarts and gets away from what's working for Ryan and the offense. The Dallas Thomas thing is so peculiar there HAS to be more to that story... I have no clue who is pushing Thomas out there weekly, but I can't be sure it's because Lazor loves it and not despite Lazor's concerns. We just don't know. So, yeah maybe Lazor is held accountable for Thomas since he IS the OC, after all.

    Not too concerned with problems that no longer exist.


    Yeah.

    - All true. The games, by the way, were Buffalo (where Lazor's presser had him disavowing anything to do with the decision to go conservative before halftime... you gotta ask Coach Philbin) and Green Bay (where he said you cannot ask players to beleive and give it all if you're not gonna lead the same way)

    Yes and yes. And don't forget creating a QB controversy that had the media saying Philbin was crazy to do this unless he ha DECIDED to make the switch. It angered Tannehill.... now many will say THAT is when Tannehill woke up... which is fine if Philbin did it ON PURPOSE as a motivational ploy, but Joe was GENUINELY PUZZLED that it was a problem to have said what he said... he clearly has no clue about managing the emotional side of a locker room. He's not a man who understands or expresses emotion, period -- maybe partially still in shock from losing his son, who knows... I am sure it didn't help. Anyways, Joe strikes me as a guy who needs therapy to start learning to understand interpersonal dynamics and psychology so he can be a better leader.

    DOn't know enough of what REALLY went on in these instances to hang it on Joe. Plus, Ireland had his own issues.

    What coach does? I'd say half of them don't and it doesn't seem to be a relaiable predictor of whether you're a successful coach or not, so I don't care about this part.

    Yup. I shoulda known you'd remember to include this eventually!


    I mean, is that a negative? A one game improvement is still an improvement, albeit too slowly for impatient fans like me. I think it's going to be challenging for him to win 2 of 3. I could see the Vikings or Jets beating us.

    Do agree here, and with the above.

    Well, you yourself admit there has been progress, but VERY slight. 1 extra win per year. He does offer stability (it seems), but I agree that he seems to have a ceiling due to his shortcomings as a leader.

    I'm surprised if someone called such a well thought out position lazy in any regard. Thanks for a great post!
     
    RoninFin4 likes this.
  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    what sort of scones.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    OMG, he celebrated field goals. The monster. :pity:
     
  11. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    I actually disagree.

    I would've called that timeout as well.

    The Packers (who are a great no huddle team) were driving down the field and our defense was gassed.

    You want to give your guys every opportunity at that point to collect themselves, catch a breath and be ready to execute on the most crucial plays.


    If I wanted to make a great case for firing Philbin, this would not come close to being on my list.
     
  12. Kucha

    Kucha Season Ticket Holder

    479
    59
    0
    Dec 21, 2007
    My top 10. Yea, it's recycled stuff...

    1. He tucks his players in at night

    2. Dez said so

    3. Picks up the trash

    4. Likes to call timeouts

    5. Now visits his players in the locker room...from time to time.

    6. He won't ever confirm who is starting the next week; even his starting QB (keep them off balance!!!).

    7. Gets along with Dawn Aponte

    8. Likes to read

    9. Is the second lowest paid head coach in the league (http://coacheshotseat.com/NFLCoachesSalaries.htm). Why pay for an expensive one???

    10. Can't think of anything else.
     
  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,682
    44,613
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    No. Just, no.
     
  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    No it wouldn't. People without a degree are often actually good at things like reading people. Just because others need to be trained to do it doesn't mean everyone lacks the ability to spot obvious (to some) clues.

    This "how would you know" thing is what's asinine.
     
  15. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    HUH? Is the season over already?

    My calendar says December 8th. Three games to go, one game behind the pack, and you're ready to give up and declare failure. Yes, that is intellectually lazy, among other things. People say Phibin isn't a motivator but his teams have a lot more confidence and swagger than the fans who criticize him for not instilling confidence confidence and swagger.

    The sliver lining is that this team seems to play better when they're being counted out, it's dealing with success that gives them trouble. Hopefully that will play to our advantage in Foxboro because hardly anything else will.
     
  16. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    I know I'm in the minority here but I'd rather wait until AFTER the December collapse to decide who's fault it was.
     
  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Then you disagree with Philbin himself who publicly stated he is studying game film at the end of halves to see learn more of what should be done.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  18. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Does Philbin mismanage all the time or only in certain games/situations?
     
  19. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Have you seen any progress from the Bengals the last 14 years?
     
  20. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    This is what has me questioning some people's view of football in general.

    It's as if they have no way of even fathoming what are in actually quite rational and normal decisions.

    Sometimes rational and normal decisions don't win the game.

    That's okay with me if I see what the logic was and I agree with it's premise.

    If someone can't even understand what they're criticizing, they tend to wind up arguing with the sky.
     
    Piston Honda likes this.
  21. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    continuity of what being .500
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    There wasn't just one but two timeouts called. The first one was after we sacked them on 3rd down. They were reeling, and needed to regroup, not the Dolphins. IT was 4th and 10.

    This allowed them more time to draw up that play, and stopped the clock. Remember how they only had 3 seconds after scoring? Where did those seconds come from? The timeout after a sack?
     
  23. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,682
    44,613
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    This post is intellectually lazy.

    Even if Miami wins out (not happening) they STILL need help to get in the playoffs. That being said, you should really join the Club Forum if you want more insight into Philbin's job security. There's a SO much more than what I've typed in this thread.
     
  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,682
    44,613
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Re-watch the play right before the 1st timeout. No way in hell one should have been called there. 4th & long, after nearly losing the game on a fumble, with no timeouts, ALL the crowd momentum in the world and you want to give the best QB in the game a chance to stop and call a play? Please, spare me.

    Now, calling the 2nd timeout when Wake and half the defense were gassed and down on a knee; that one I agree with calling.
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    1. Continuity only matters if there's something redeemable to continue, and a sub .500 record through 45 games isn't on that list.

    2. This team is not on an upswing b/c of Philbin. It's on an upswing because it's more talented than it's been in a while. When Joe is terminated he wont be bringing the team along with him. There will be no Jerry Maguire moment where he shouts "Who's coming with me?!", but if there were, he'd be hearing crickets.

    3. Joe has not set any type of culture for this team, unless you consider losing an excessive amount of close 4th qtr games and blowing 4th qtr leads as "establishing a culture".

    4. Joe has had 3 years to build a culture conducive for success. If that's still not yet established [like you mentioned] then he's not the right man for the job.

    5. Ironically, one big reason that there's the "lack of roster continuity" that you mentioned is because Joe sent players packing like Vontae, Dansby, and Marshall who quickly turned things around on their new teams.

    6. You talk about "developing players" as a plus for Philbin, yet he was ready to pull the plug on the team's most important developmental player, Tannehill, after week 3.

    7. The "functioning" offense is a product of Lazor's offense, which has little to do with Philbin who was initially apprehensive about it before it even took its first snap. Contrary to your statement, Philbin is not the reason Lazor is here.

    8. Stop with the excuse-making!! The offense has put up more than enough points to win some of these games. You dramatically act like they're a bottom ranked unit that averages 14 pts per game when the reality is they're the 12 ranked scoring offense.

    9. Contrary to your statements, Miami's offense ranks 6th in Redzone TD scoring and boasts the 2nd lowest 3 & Out percentage in the NFL at 13.1% behind Green Bay's 12.7%. For comparison, Denver's is 19.4%, Indy's is 19.8%, and New England's is 23.0%...... so again, stop with the ridiculousness.

    10. Coyle shouldn't be getting great production "at times" from this talented unit. He should consistently be getting great production from them.

    11. It doesn't take "many seasons" to build a playoff team if the talent is already there to be one, which ours is. Jim Harbaugh, John Harbaugh, Chip Kelly, Chuck Pagano, Andy Reid, and Bruce Arians all inherited moderately talented but underachieving teams that finished no better than 6-10 the year prior [with a combined average record of 4-12] and immediately flipped them into playoff teams with an average record of 11-5. Philbin on the other hand inherited a similarly talented but underachieving 6-10 Miami team [that boasted the 6th ranked scoring Defense and won 6 of its final 9 games] and negligibly improved them to 7-9 despite adding a 1st round QB and having ample opportunity to upgrade coordinators and positional coaches who weren't up to snuff. That's it, one additional win, and it's not really "additional" considering Sparano had back-to-back 7-9 seasons with this team two years prior. Then in year 2, despite a full season and two off-seasons for Philbin to mend the team, Miami again was only able to improve by 1 win. Now in year 3 with a much improved roster and offensive coordinator, Miami has once again been limited to just a 1 win improvement under Philbin. You act like he inherited an aged, withered, talent-deprived 1-15 team in need of complete rebuild.

    Hell, Pete Carroll inherited a decimated Seattle team that finished 5-11 & 4-12 the two years prior and featured the 25th ranked scoring offense and 25th ranked scoring Defense. Unlike Philbin, Carroll was tasked with a complete makeover [replacing 19 of 22 starters] which he accomplished within 2 years, and by year 3 was in the playoffs at 11-5. Philbin beneficially inherited the NFL's 6th ranked scoring D that needed very little work; however that didn't stop him from sending Vontae packing b/c he couldn't get through to him [like Pagano could] and cutting Dansby b/c he was too vocal about the team. The offense had some key pieces in Marshall, Pouncey, Bush, Clay, and Hartline as a possession receiver, but Joe lessened that unit as well by trading away Marshall and ditching Bush. Now Joe is in year 3- one loss to New England away from being a .500 team again.

    12.
    This team has been every bit of a Sparano team under Philbin- continuing to blow too many 4th qtr leads, continuing to lose an abundance of close 4th quarter games, and hovering around .500 with a 22-23 record [.489]. If Philbin loses to New England, his win percentage drops to .478 which, incidentally, is nearly identical to Sparano's .475 despite Philbin's roster, QB, and OC all being improved. When a coach is unable to improve the win percentage of his failed predecessor through 45 games, it's a sign that he himself is failing too.

    13.
    When a team has enough talent to be a playoff contender as this one does, you don't allow the floundering head coach to continue to do damage nor wait for the wheels to fall off as he implodes the team before hiring his replacement. That's just asinine. Why the heck would you INTENTIONALLY want a capable crew to sink with their inept captain when they can be thrown a life line and salvaged?

    14.
    At the end of the day, nothing of what you said matters if the coach can't win. It's just excuse-making.
     
  26. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    I understand.

    I'm not arguing it's a good or bad call. I can see what you're saying.

    I just don't feel right using that as evidence in support of terminating someone.

    To me, that's very fan-atical, haha.

    I appreciate your describing the situation though. Thanks for the thoughts!
     
  27. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    This season has been spelled out for a while, with the AFC North being gift wrapped the NFC South. We had to win all the games we SHOULD have won. This includes home vs Ravens. That did not happen. We lose tie breakers against too many teams, and too many teams have a better record. It is over. We goto 7-7 next week, and probably end up 8-8. If we deserved to be in the playoffs, we wouldn't have lost at home against the team we are fighting for that last wildcard against by 15 points.
     
  28. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    This is a great site, tons of good people, so I'm strongly considering joining to show support. I'm not terribly excited about the prospect of hearing more propaganda though.

    Is there anything in club about this play:

    [​IMG]

    Pouncey is a couple yards down field but he's a 100% non factor in the play, it's the type of no harm no foul call that is rarely, if ever, called.

    Or this play:

    [​IMG]

    Pouncey is MAYBE a half yard down field when the ball is released, and after hitting us with a bogus IMD penalty on a big play earlier in the game this call is even more of an insult.

    I won't say Flacco was definitely in the end zone when he was sacked but the RT who was holding Cam Wake certainly was. Two safeties on the same play and neither was called. Biggest of all was the Vernon strip, wiped from existence by John Parry. You say the margin is razor thin, too thin for a team to overcome a series of unfavorable calls at crucial moments...I agree.
     
  29. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,682
    44,613
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Using just that? Neither do I. But it cost Miami that particular game. I've listed a litany of reasons why Joe Philbin should [will] be terminated in another post in this thread.
     
  30. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

    3,982
    1,434
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    It's these types of post that make me thankful that most people hold little influence in life.
     
  31. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,682
    44,613
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    As for those particular plays, not that I've seen. It could have been discussed in the Club Chatroom, which I was not in as I was at a work function during the first half of the game, thus why I didn't do a weekly review.

    As far as "propaganda" goes, there's none of that in Club that I've noticed. Of those that have spoken things they shouldn't have, they've been dealt with swiftly in the past and I've not noticed any issues the past 2 years. There are several people who are VERY connected to the Dolphins. For obvious reasons what they say in Club stays in Club.

    Aside from X's and O's I see on the field, a lot of what my opinion is about Joe Philbin and this staff is the direct result of the Club Forum.
     
  32. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Cool.

    I'm more of an Xs and Os guy myself, I bought a darn subs to PFF and I rarely if ever use it. Game Rewind on the other hand, is about an inch away from ending my marriage :lol:.
     
  33. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    That call was our season. We would have gone up 17-0. That infuriated me. Also infuriated me that players and coaches went limp after it.
     
  34. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    I'm with ya. I had forgotten about the 4th and 10 timeout. I wouldn't have called timeout and I remember now that at the time when it happened I thought it was a little weird.

    Still though, I'm not mad at it. It should have helped our defense get prepared.

    To me, there's no excuse for the defense being given that timeout and failing.

    If anything, it's just more evidence that we aren't as good as we think we are on defense.



    On that point, I would say that if Rex Ryan was truly available...I think I'd do it. He might be the only coach that I'd let step in.

    I would try to retain Philbin and get Ryan on as DC but if I couldn't do that, I'd probably offer Rex the head job.

    He was a QB away from beating us 2 weeks ago. As a Philbin supporter, even I have to admit that.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    i won't speak for RoNIN, but the reasoning behind his answer has been talked about a lot..

    My take is similar, if indeed it was a question of being gassed and players were not in position, then ok, but i don't think it was the case, I think it was to take the kodak moment and deny all the momentum and variables that had built up from the previous play, which was a strip sack fumble leaving them in 4th and long...I think those intangibles outweigh trying to play chess in that moment..
     
  36. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    It's not a good timeout. I agree.

    I'm just saying it's not that big a deal in the long run. Every coach is guilty of mismanaging games here and there.

    There were a host of bigger reasons we lost that game have that a lot more to do with our long-term development than a timeout.

    The offense let us down on several occasions not to mention the defense did fail us after that timeout.

    Momentum or not, execution is the name of the game.
     
  37. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    If Vernon or Grimes grab the fumble, game over. If Finnegan makes the tackle in bounds, game over. If Philbin doesn't call the TO, no one knows. So you really can't say it costs us the game.
     
  38. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

    3,840
    636
    0
    Feb 26, 2013
    I'll give you one reason.

    There is no one better and there will be no one better, and there has not been anyone better since early Shula.
     
  39. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

    2,476
    1,128
    113
    Mar 21, 2013
    Lol, continuity. "Not sure what he's good at...but we should stick with him."

    He took over a team that consistently finished around .500...and the team is still consistently finishing around .500. He has a better QB than those Henne years too, and I'd argue the overall talent is probably better.

    But yes, let's keep on keepin on...late-season collapses, lockerroom issues, and gutless heartless football on our home field. Phinz up.
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  40. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    The team is on an upswing? How do you reach that conclusion???
     

Share This Page