Dion Jordan and Sheldon Richardson.... Did the Dolphins make a mistake?

They can still trade DE/OLB Jordan to Philly For OLB/DE Brandon Graham and a 5th round pick.

 

all this s the ramifications of a team that still cant draft . I hope that we will have a great draft but we wont have until Philbin is gone because Philbin just doesn't have the nack for pcking good players alone great ones.

 

The problem was with Coyle & Philbin not being on the same page as Ireland who was likely ecstatic about being able to trade up for a playmaking, versatile, freakishly athletic, hybrid LB. I mean, f**k, versatility is such a huge commodity in this league and the idiots running this team/defense chose to either UN-versatile Jordan or stupidly went along with such a boneheaded idea. Making matters worse is the coaching staff apparently failing to recognize Olivier Vernon's promising development into a quality RE which should've made the decision simple to keep Jordan as a defensive X-factor since hybrids like Jordan allow DC's much greater flexibility and should make it all the easier for them change up schemes or game-plans on a weekly basis depending on the offense presented. If it ever comes out that Coyle/Philbin wanted Jordan as a DE instead of an OLB because of the Wheeler/Ellerbe signings, then I'd.... I don't know what I'd do but I do know it'd involve bags of dogs***.

If Ireland were made aware of their intentions to turn Jordan into a monstrous DE, which is a ridiculous risk when such a valuable draft pick and talented player is involved and the outcome is unknown, then Miami should've drafted Ziggy Ansah, period. You don't play "hey let's see what happens if we do this" with a #3 overall pick. But then again, that disconnect between HC, DC, and GM is consistent with a team struggling to break .500. Jordan wasn't one the draft's highest rated defenders because of how he played 4-3 DE at 280 pounds. Nobody had a damn clue as to his ability and potential in such a role at such a weight. Coyle & Philbin made a mockery of us because if the rest of the league were forced to view Jordan as a 280 pound 4-3 DE he probably would've still been there by our 2nd round pick, if not longer, yet we traded up to #3. lulz

 

Lol, Kelly would have taken him at 4. Ansah probably would have been a better pick, but either way I'm glad we have a defensive edge player with a ton of versatility, even if they have been a "bust" so far because I do believe it was wise to draft Wake's replacemanet early. Jordan may bust, but if he benefits greatly form a new coaching staff I just hope you all who have written him off admit your ignorance. Don't forget Cameron Wake was a "bust" for most of his life. PSU linebacker getting cut in rookie training camp. Oh what a bust he turned out to be lol.

 

I don't think having two other guys is really that particularly big a roadblock for Jordan. You can find roles and give meaningful playing time to three guys pretty easily, and especially in the short term someone being a Nickel specialist really isn't a big deal in my mind.

I think Coyle had Jordan reasonably pegged as a rookie, I'm not sure why they went away from that. He was doing what was asked of him pretty well.

 

he was his rookie year, he had his quicks, he was being moved around, he was flashing as a rookie, and he was at the right weight, I also am very confident he reinjured his shoulder in the browns game, I rewatched the play 10 times and I saw it, and i saw him cover it up..

I think thats where the problem came to fruition, they took what they saw on tape, a kid with a bad shoulder, and thought we need to get him bigger and stronger..everything that has happened since, all the evidence imo points to it being true..they misread the kids body.

 

Well, I'm with you then I guess because I certainly don't want to lose the upside and the versatility of Dion Jordan.

I do think he can be a special player.

 

Exactly. He didn't put up flashy numbers as a rookie, but he looked like he'd be at least a solid edge rusher. He's must worse how they're using him now.

I'll have to check out that injury in Rewind

 

I think we've helped screwed up Jordan's career and he didn't do himself any favors with the suspension. I think he's missed so much of Training Camp the past two years that he's far behind everyone else in terms of development and picking up on our defense. I think our staff messed him up by turning him into a bigger 4-3 end when clearly Jordan was, is and will always be a 3-4 LB. Classic case of square peg ---> round hole. The best coaches try to use a player's strengths and abilities and use that to help the team. Bad coaches try to force a player into a role or position that doesn't fit what they do. I hate Bellicheat, but look at all those ex-Dolphin players he's had over the year that didn't do anything here but look like superstars on the Patriots. That's because Bellicheat looks at what kind of player they are and what they do best and applies those attributes to his team. We're the anti-Patriots, we put players in positions to fail.

Look at our defense as a whole. We were much more solid as a unit when the D was a base 3-4. We had our problems sure, that was mostly due to Ireland not being able to find playmakers. But the scheme itself was fine. Now we have 3-4 personnel playing a 4-3 scheme and we can't stop the run.

 

it was early in the game, browns were in our territory, he came around the edge and just missed the sack, got his arm caught in a weird position, and he and it went limp, he didn't go to the ground though, you could see the pain in his body language, then you could see him pretend that nothing happened, and it all happened very quickly..

 

If they expected that out of Jordan it was a horrible evaluation. He is a tall athletic OLB and that is the only place he should be playing.

 

In 2015. No need to wait. He should be the Sam backer in either a 4-3 or a 3-4. Full time.

 

Anyone watching the Ducks in 2012 could see Alonso, not Jordan, was the leader of that defense.

 

I thought at the time that we made a good trade, I thought the value was right so I had no issue at all with the move. Of course in hindsight with a suspension and only part time play its easy to call Dion a bust because so far he has been. I did like him a lot coming out and I really liked the move up, I thought it was an aggressive move that wasn't all that expensive. I actually thought it was a good move for Ireland so I'm not going to be a hypocrite and blast it because we coulda woulda shoulda taken another player. The draft is what it is, a crapshoot. I still think this move would have worked out the majority of the time and I'd make that trade again considering where we were drafting in the 1st, 2nd round. I think the 2nd pick in the draft is easily worth the picks we traded. It hasn't worked out, hopefully Jordan turns it around and we get a coaching staff that actually tries to develop him instead of putting him in terrible positions that he isn't built for.

 

He needs to get back down to around 250 and move to OLB. Makes no sense what so ever to turn this guy into an overweight DE and diminish his athletic potential. This guy has the size and speed to cover Gronkowski. Just develop his skills.

I cant believe they traded up to three to get a DE when the guy never even played DE.

 

I can't believe we traded up to three for a guy w/ some college success. Not spectacular by any stretch.

 

Not me. Of course the trade did appear to be of good value and I held out hope Jordan would be a baller for us. But we needed OL help much more than DL help, which was the deepest and most solid area of the team that offseason. There was much better options and positions of need at the time. Not surprised it hasn't worked out for us thus far.

 

And I thought Lane Johnson was the best among those top 3 LT prospects. There he was. Ripe for the taking.

 

What would chap my *** most about Jordan's predicament is if Coyle/Philbin turned him into a large 4-3 DE so that a different player could maintain status quo. I mean, how moronically backward would that be to have the draft's highest selected defender who possesses a rare skill set be the one required to change positions and body types in order to accommodate Wheeler or Misi when it's the defense or one of its players that should've been altered to accommodate the draft's highest selected defender?!!


IMO, the moment Jordan was drafted, the defensive scheme should've been changed to a 3-4 or 4-3 Under which our personnel is arguably better matched for and would certainly have mitigated our vulnerability against the run. Not only would there be a large 3-4 DE covering up Jordan, but going with what's essentially 3 DTs up front would've kept more trash off Jenkins to free him up to make more impact plays, potentially Reshad Jones too. That way Misi could be the thumper at MIKE and Wheeler & Ellerbe's contracts would be expendable. It'd also let us go nuts with a pressuring 5 man front at any given moment from both Wake and Jordan/Vernon coming off the edge.

Plus I think that might help mitigate the issue of having the 260 pound Cam Wake lined up against strong side formations due to him being a left side only player. He should really be a weak-side only edge rusher in the LEO role IMO, but that's obviously not feasible given his left side only status. I feel there's no need to intentionally wear down our best pass rusher by having him square off run-side against 315+ pound right tackles and double teams when a 3-4 DE could more appropriately be doing it. For each play that features the offense's right side as the weak side, Wake would remain the edge rusher per usual, and for each play that it's the strong side, he simply moves off the line and becomes the strong side OLB. Ditto for Jordan/Vernon on the opposite side. It's just so much simpler and more effective this way when the defense doesn't have to worry about flopping sides to mirror the offense's formation, but that's the level of versatility that athletic pass rushers like Jordan, Vernon, and Wake allow a defense to have..... yet for some crazy reason Coyle/Philbin prefer to have us running a more traditional style 4-3 instead, something we'd expect from a team lacking scheme-versatile players and are essentially limited to a standard 4-3 D because of it.

 

I agree, but I do not think we'd even need to convert a 3-4 just for Jordan. He could play OLB in either scheme. I'd like to see him playing OLB lined up next to or behind Wake. As you say, the 3-4 could help other players though.

 

I wouldn't do it just for Jordan. In general I think a 3-4 or 4-3 Under fits our personnel better and especially since we're basically starting 2 weakside rushers at DE. From day one I haven't been a fan of our front 4 featuring an undersized pair of 260 pound ends that can leave us less physically assertive and vulnerable against the run. I'd rather see those athletic DEs either move back to OLB or alternate between weakside end & strongside OLB and have the defensive front see an extra DT [or more specifically a 5-tech]. I feel we've experienced too much trouble stopping the run and have been too inconsistent pressuring the QB from a more traditional 4 man front to remain a more traditional 4-3.

 

Oh man, I would love to have Alonso on this team.

 

What sickens me is, how long we've been missing in the draft. Sure we get some blue chips here and there. But when is the last time we drafted a stud that other fans drool over? Where is our AJ Green, our Adrian Peterson, our JJ Watt, or Demarcus Ware, Patrick Willis, etc.

Who was the last defensive stud we've drafted? JT? Shoot who was our last offensive juggernaut, Dan Marino? Not just someone we like and appreciate, but an absolute stud.

 

That's a pretty good point. Ronnie Brown sure was looking the part...until that injury...but ya, we haven't really had any blockbusters...even with high picks.