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Are you guys serious ? --- REX RYAN

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well, you've just proven your level of intelligence to me.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    There's a first time for everything, or so they say.
     
  3. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah? Not today. And tomorrow ain't lookin too good either for that. Lol
     
  4. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    REX RYAN

    Offense rank Defense rank
    2014* 30 (16.4) 24 (25.7)

    2013 29 (18.1) 19 (24.2)

    2012 28 (17.6) 20 (23.4)

    2011 13 (23.6) 20 (22.7)

    2010 14 (22.9) 6 (19.0)

    2009 17 (21.8) 1 (14.8)

    ( ) = pts scored or points allowed


    info from : ports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Offense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=season_2014&sort=530&old_category=Total&old_group=Offense


    Miami Dolphins

    offense Defense
    12 15 2014
    26 8 2013
    27 7 2012
    20 6 2011
    30 13 2010
    15 26 2009

    statistically the Miami Dolphins had a better defense with the sorry coaches we had then REX RYAN 4 out of the 6 years he was Head coach of the NEW YORK JETS
     
    RickyNeverInhaled likes this.
  5. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    No body has a comment about Sexy Rexy's record
     
  6. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    On our coach: Let me stop you right there, the record is the record. All I care about is the record and I don't want to hear about excuses blah blah blah.

    On their coach: Sure the record isn't great but excuse, excuse, excuse.
     
  7. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You think he is sexy huh?
     
  8. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    2 problems.

    1) Rex may be headed for a sweet-heart TV deal...the likes of which have kept Gruden and Cowher wealthy and content, while out of the action for years now.

    2) He has a Jet tattoo. Maybe Miami Ink can help him out with a cover up. Maybe stencil in Cam Wake with a serpents tongue, lapping at his old lady's toes.
     
  9. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I didn't think about that. It's very possible. Although, I think he loves football too much. He's as competitive as it gets.
     
  10. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    If this doesn't shut people up I don't know what will. They will just say his GM sucks though.
     
    2socks likes this.
  11. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    And ours DIDN'T (Jeffy)?
     
  12. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    You'll notice a correlation there between offensive success and defensive success. That's because no matter how talented a defense is, if the offense is terrible the defense will struggle. Too many 3 and outs will force a defense back on to the field too quickly, put them in bad field position situations, etc. That's why football is the ultimate team sport.

    This isn't necessarily a defense of Rex Ryan. He shares failure in some of the Jets offensive woes. But he was never given a QB with the necessary skills to succeed in the NFL. And when he had one that was bordering on competent at times in Sanchez, he had 2 championship game appearances. I think with Tannehill - a young promising QB who has demonstrated an ability to have a positive TD/INT ratio (something he never had with a QB) he could potentially take things to the next level.

    I'd rather Harbaugh, but you won't see me jumping off any roofs if Rex Ryan is the consolation prize.
     
  13. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I was surprised when I looked that our team has been better - much better then Rex 4 out of 6 yrs. And one could argue that the only reason he was good the first 2 yrs was because he took over something someone else built
     
  14. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    I never said he didn't. I did defend him at first because I wasn't sure if it was all his fault or Parcells but it was apparent after Parcells left. The ironic thing is that people give Rex a pass for having a bad GM but they don't give Philbin that same pass. There should be no doubt that we have upgraded our GM and our OC but one year of that isn't good enough for the majority of people that post on here everyday. It would be nice if people were consistent with their beliefs, reasons, excuses, etc whenever talking about coaches of another team. Rex should be held to the same standard everyone holds Phibin to.

    PhinFan, I have no idea what your stance is or if anything I said applies to you. I've got better things to do than remember who says what, part of the problem is I never pay attention to the messengers but I do read most of the messages in this forum.
     
  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    and? Why do you insist on looking at in a vacuum as if GM ability [or lack thereof], inadequate roster talent, and a deprivation of good QB play have zero impact on wins and losses?

    There's perspective in everything. You, yourself, are judging Rex solely by looking at his record, as if he's a golfer who has no other contributing factors influencing success to worry about. Conversely, some of us look at Rex's record, and rather than judging it directly, we determine whether or not we believe it exceeds expectations based on the state of the franchise, the roster provided him, the level of QB play, and the performance of his GM.

    In Rex's case, we explicitly believe Rex overachieved with Sanchez at QB when he made consecutive AFC Championship appearances in 2009-10, overachieved with his 8-8 teams in 2011 and '13 that otherwise resembled 5-11 squads, has no chance in hell in creating chicken salad out of his current chicken **** of a roster that the fired Mike Tannenbaum saddled him with, and Rex admirably squeezed as much as possible out of his 6-10 season of 2012 when his top receiver was Jeremy friggin' Kerley, Shonn Greene was at RB, Sanchez still at QB, Clyde Gates starting games at WR, Dustin Keller & Santonio Holmes on IR, and an weak O-line that allowed 47 sacks and 3.8 YPC....... and defensively it featured Revis on IR, 33 year old Sione Pouha at NT, a worthless 33 yr Bryan Thomas at OLB, 34 yr Yeremiah Bell at safety, 32 yr Calvin Pace at OLB, 32 yr Bart Scott, a wasted 1st round pick on Kyle Wilson at CB, and a unit as a whole that was devoid of pass rush ability with 5.5 sacks representing its greatest individual total. Take away Muhammad Wilkerson and the average age of Rex's 2012 starting defense was 30.1 years. During the past 2 years, Rex has squeezed 11 wins out of a team that possesses just 1 redeeming quality- its D-line.

    Plus it's irrational to scapegoat Rex for Tannenbaum's overall draft failure from '08 to '13 which made Ireland's look like gold by comparison:
    • 1st rounders wasted on Gholston, Sanchez, and Kyle Wilson.... and with Dee Milliner yet to make an impact.
    • All 3 of NY's 2nd rounders wasted on Gino Smith, Stephen Hill, and Vlad Ducasse.
    • drafted just 4 reliable starters from '08 to '12. That's 5 years of not building a roster through the draft.
    • had a total of 7 draft picks in '09 and '10 when NY should've had 14+. NY got nothing from these 2 drafts.
    • had a total of 23 draft picks from '07-11 when NY should've had 35+ because Tannenbaum preferred to trade away valuable draft picks for veterans instead of acquiring them in FA like most everyone else does.
    • spent a 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, and 7th to trade up for Sanchez, Hill, and Shonn Greene [not including the picks also used to take them]
    • spent a 3rd, 5th, AND $20 million guaranteed to get NT Kris Jenkins for just 23 games
    • spent a 3rd & 5th to get Braylon Edwards for just 2 seasons
    • wasted a 4th & 6th on Tebow
    • spent a 3rd AND $12 million to get 39 year old Favre for 1 season
    • wasted a 4th AND $3 million on Lito Sheppard [cut after 1 year]
    • spent a 5th AND roughly $25 million for what was 2 seasons of Santonio Holmes
    • spent a 2nd AND roughly $25 million on Antonio Cromartie who is no longer with the team

    Plus add Tannenbaum's salary cap snafus:

    • the aforementioned deals to Jenkins, Holmes, Sheppard, and Favre worth $60.0M guaranteed
    • Sanchez's guaranteed $20.5M extension immediately after failing to land Manning.... This on top of the $28 million in salary cap he occupied his first 3 years.
    • tied up $34 million over 5 yrs in Calvin Pace, but he provided just 12.5 total sacks the final 3 years of it.
    • tied up $25 million over 2 yrs in David Harris.
    • paid Alan Faneca $21 million for 2 years.
    • paid Vernon Gholston $21 million for ZERO sacks.
    • paid Sione Pouha $9 million for 1 year.
    • paid Tebowmania $2.5 million for 1 year.
    • paid Jason Smith $2.5 million for 1 year.
    That's like $223 million against the cap from the above 12 references alone, with only David Harris being a long term contributor, albeit somewhat declining and not nearly worth his cap hit. With Harris removed, that's still nearly $200 million that wasn't being wisely used to build for the future, not to mention the 9 wasted draft picks involved that also weren't building for the future- two 1sts, a 2nd, two 3rds, two 4ths, two 5ths, and a 6th.

    Basically the above could be made into a tutorial on how not to build a winning organization. It's easy to see how Tannenbaum was heavily in a "win now" mentality and sacrificed NY's future for a brief window of success. When a GM does this while simultaneously eating a massive s**t sandwich during the draft, how could his HC be expected to achieve future success?
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    see above.

    Rex is a coach, not a GM.

    Why continue hiding behind a veiled argument? Just come out and say the real reason you don't want Rex in Miami is simply because he was a Jet.
     
  17. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    What are your thoughts on Hickey?
     
  18. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Not my theory, just a lot of the speculation/rumblings up here in NJ.
     
  19. Auburn

    Auburn New Member

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    Offer Cowher...$15MM/year for 5 years.
     
  20. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tom Gamble would be an upgrade if we can land him
     
  21. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    You could pretty much swap out the names with Sparano and Dolphins players and write pretty much the same thing. In fact, you could do it for a lot of coaches/teams.
     
  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    The problem with the whole AFC Championship claim is that Rex's best 2 years, and it is obvious from the ranking, was with a team built by his predecessor. "He didn't build that" -- Once Rex and Co got into making changes he immediately went to around 20th in defensive rank and has never recovered
     
  23. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    It is not my intent to get people to shut up. It is amazing how people will just regurgitate what they hear and not look at the facts. I hope who ever reads this digs deeper and forms new opinions.

    I am quickly beginning to wonder about Harbaugh, he was my first choice as replacement. I question why he has failed to bring the team together to play better then they currently are. This concerns me among other things like, who would he bring with him and what bridges has he burned. If he jumps on the Michigan offer I guess we will have our answer. I just hope Ross has enough sense that should he have a chance to bring in Harbaugh that it is done professionally and not hastily.
     
  24. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I appreciate your response. It must have taken you an hour to write it up with all the stuff you had to look up. That or you are secretly a Jets fan 2nd because you know way to much.

    Look It is pretty simple for me. They keep track of wins and losses. Rex is responsible for them. When someone brings up Tannenbaum they don't talk about him reporting wins and losses.

    Coaches live and die every year based on their record, not their GM in New York or any other team anywhere else. Rex Ryan was and still is directly responsible for winning. His teams with the exception of the first two years are mediocre. He failed in achieving success.

    We , as in the Miami Dolphins have done a better job with Sparano and Philbin and Jeff Ireland as GM then The New York Jets have.

    I see Tannenbaum consulting with Ross and people talking about wanting Rex here.

    Makes me want to vomit. I want to win some time this decade. I don't want to wait until the next one............................JMO

    Rex Ryan is 44-49 career HC. The majority of fans want Philbin gone and screamed for Ireland and Sparano's heads for the same crap
     
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  25. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    In post #103 you just said how amazing it is when people don't listen to facts and then literally completely disregarded Todds post that is nothing but facts and meaningful substance, and proceeded to call him a jets fan. If you want to look at his coaching record and judge him solely on that like a total pleb, then be my guest. I'm not even a huge Rex fan but it's still pretty easy to see the guy is far from a bad coach when you apply some common sense.
     
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  26. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Great post.

    After all of the venom about how bad Ireland was I find it hard to swallow excuses about how Rex was done in by his GM. I'll concede the Jets haven't had the best player acquisitions but if draft pick after draft pick is failing then at some point you gotta ask who's coaching these guys up?

    Second, people are underestimating how talented those 09-10 Jets teams were.
     
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  27. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can easily take Todd's summation "It's easy to see how Tannenbaum was heavily in a "win now" mentality and sacrificed NY's future for a brief window of success." and draw the conclusion that the only reason Rex had any success his first two season was because Tannebaum was putting all the chips on the table and once that bubble burst his real coaching abilities showed through.

     
    2socks likes this.
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Prove it. Do it.
     
  29. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wouldn't that just be redundant with the countless Fire Ireland threads from last year.
     
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  30. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
  31. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Dude really? I been around here since 2008. If there is one thing I know it is Todd is NOT a Jets fan. I also didn't say his post was anything. Other then I thanked him for taking the time posting it. Seems to me the only one judging here friend is you. It is your right to think whatever you want about Sexy Rexy. I can assure you of one thing though when people look back they look back at record and Rex's isn't very good. THAT IS A FACT

    Maybe we can just make a bunch of excuses for Philbin and just keep him on. Or hell better yet lets apologize to Sparano and offer him his job back.....after all isn't it all Jeff Irelands Fault???
     
  32. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    The other thing guys are not realizing is those teams from 09/10 were built by Rex's predecessor. Wasn't it Eric Mangini? Sexy Rexy just rode the wave.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    .... and therein lies the problem. You've simplified something that's meant to be interpreted with context, and you've done so to such a degree that you're now in a vacuum.

    Let me ask you a question. Were you a fan of Shula? .... and if you could have any coach in the league take over Miami, whom would it be?

    BTW, if the General Manager of the Jets has nothing to do with the organization's win-loss record, then:
    a) why was there a need to fire him?
    b) exactly what was Tannenbaum's job description responsible for if not the success of the team, hot dog sales in Manhattan?

    :blink:Philbin can't even break .500 or make it to the damn playoffs, yet in your eyes he's somehow done better than a coach capable of twice reaching the AFC Champ game with a bottom tier QB and a roster no more talented than the one Philbin had to work with this year? WUT?

    Rex Ryan with a decent roster = 11-5, AFC Championship appearance
    Joe Philbin with an equally talented roster = fails to make playoffs

    Joe Philbin with a decent roster = disappointing .500 underachievement
    Rex Ryan with a poor roster = laudable .500 overachievement

    And Sparano? C'mon man. He went 4-9 in 2011 with a roster unequivocally better than the one Rex went 8-8 with last year, and it was significantly better than the clusterf*** of one Rex is currently 3-11 with that had no business surpassing 1 win. Do you so quickly forget Sparano's 0-7 start to 2011 with a team talented enough to win 6 of its final 9? Rex wouldn't have needed half a season to get that team on track, and Rex's teams don't lose the majority of their close 4th quarter games, nor chronically squander 4th quarter leads.

    Sparano with a respectable roster = 4-9 disappointment
    Rex with a similarly talented roster = 9-7, Wildcard team, AFC Champ appearance
     
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  34. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Gods I hope Woody is reading this thread and Todd has convinced him to extend Rex for another stint. That would be a nice early Christmas present for the rest of the AFC East.

    Rex's record with Revis: 34-23
    Rex's record without Revis: 15-28

    So if he comes as a packaged deal with Revis, sure, sign me up.
     
  35. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Remember the whole thing where "Joe Philbin hired Sherman, that proves he's an idiot..."

    Well, Rex hired Tony Sparano....
     
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  36. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hahaha....you know, I had forgotten about that! Talk about a strike against you! :) :)

    When you boil it all down, I don't think anyone can argue that with great talent on the field, Rex's defensive schemes are some of the league's best. His pedigree on the defensive side of the ball is really without question. I think that virtually everyone in the NFL would like to have a Rex Ryan at DC (aside from the few teams that seem set already).

    On the other hand, there's a lot of evidence to support the notion that he's out of his depth as the HC of an professional team. He doesn't know a thing about developing QBs or hiring quality OCs. To his credit, I think he's generally stayed out of way of whoever is running show for him on offense.

    I wouldn't be opposed to Rex in a DC role. I'd even take him as a HC with certain conditions. If I had a GM, an OC and a QB that I felt confident about, Rex could kind of just come in and do his thing.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Boom goes the dynamite.
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You conveniently ignore the fact that I never thought Ireland was bad. He was an ok GM who at least furnished this team with a competitive roster, which is a LOT more than can be said about Tannenbaum who was a disaster.

    One of the first things new Jets GM, John Idzik, did in 2013 was fire 5 of the Jets 7 college scouts, including their Asst Scouting Director. Pair that with the firing of Tannenbaum and it would appear Idzik believed there was a major problem with the organization's ability to identify talent.

    Unfortunately [or fortunately for the Dolphins], Idzik still has NY's ex GM, Terry Bradway, to deal with who operates as Senior Director of College Scouting, Jeff Bauer [hired during Bradway's tenure] as as Director of College Scouting, Brendan Prophett as Director of Pro Personnel who ascended during Bradway's tenure, Matt Bazigran as Asst Director of Pro Personnel who is another one of Bradway's guys, and Idzik's Coordinator of College Scouting is Dan Zbjovsky who was hired under Tannenbaum. What a mess! :lol:

    Idzik may have replaced 5 of the scouts, but NY's top 3 execs in the college scouting hierarchy still consists of Ganaway and 2 of Ganaway's guys, and Idzik's front office is still dominated by execs from 2 previous regimes. On top of that, NY's President is a holdover from Tannenbaum's tenure, and Woody Johnson's attorney and advisor, Ira Akselrad, is heavily involved in Woody's football decisions. I might be going out on a limb here but I don't think that's conducive for a single, consistent vision required to properly staff a roster. Too many voices in that room.

    As far as personnel goes, it was reported that Idzik would have final say on those matters.
    .... and don't get me started on NY's horrific salary cap management, how poorly that money was spent, and how much of NY's future Tannenbaum sacrificed during his "win now" mode when Rex first took over. But it's not like I'm complaining or don't thoroughly enjoy watching that organization step in dog s*** or anything.

    It had no more talent than the one Miami currently has. It also had Sanchez. Don't think anyone is "underestimating" his talent.
     
  39. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Define better job. Because they have made the Playoffs more often and gone further in them!

    Which is the only way to get a chance at winning a Super Bowl, the object of the exercise....


    They don't give that big trophy at the end of the season for winning percentage.
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    so? I can make a good coach look inadequate too.

    Walsh with Montana: 86-38
    Walsh w/o Montana [including games Joe missed]: 16-21

    Chuck Knoll with the Steel Curtain: 88-27
    Chuck Knoll w/o the Steel Curtain: 105-121.... and missed the playoffs in 11 of 15 years

    Don Shula with Dan Marino and an average roster from 86-'89: 30-33 {8 wins, 8 wins, 6 wins, 8 wins}
    I guess Canton should probably strip Shula of his HOF honors since his record those 4 years shows he was a bad coach according to your criteria, eh.

    Conference Championship appearances for Rex with Sanchez/Gino: 2 in 6 years
    Conference Championship appearances for Shula with Marino: 3 in 13 years

    Would you care to list all the coaches who DID WIN with bad rosters? I mean, you can't condemn Rex for losing with a sh*tty roster unless you first establish that it's a deviation from the norm.
     
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