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A Sound, Well Constructed Argument Why It Is Good That Philbin Is Retained

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sethdaddy8, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    NJ
    I would take that scenario. But it disturbs me. Because I think we lose Lazor in that scenario to another team.
     
  2. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    I love RT17, I truly do. Think he is the franchise QB we have been seeking. But I don't think he will ever be good enough to overcome a bad coach. There are maybe 2-3 guys in the history of the NFL that are/were THAT good. I think Lazor has more to do with RT's 93+ rating, TD/Int ratio, and overall success than Philbin.
     
  3. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    That's the NFL today. Once you have a QB the rest is relatively easy.
     
  4. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For the past season, I have been as un-emotional as I have ever been as a fan. At least Sundays aren't stressful for me in the least, and now I know there's at least another year of that.

    I have enjoyed watching certain things play out this year, such as Tannehill getting better, Miller doing the same, etc., but it's not quite the same thing as believing the Dolphins have a chance to do anything.

    Without that belief, the tough losses aren't as tough.

    That's all I got.
     
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  5. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Relatively being the key word.
     
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  6. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Ha!

    Try rooting for a college team that plays cupcakes all year bc in the NFL there are players and coaches just as good as yours on the opposite sideline pretty much every week.
     
  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Sorry but there is nothing good about retaining Philbin. He has proved he isn't a top head coach in this league and that he chokes when it gets late in the season and the playoffs are on the line.

    If you want peace, just accept mediocrity while he is the head coach of the Dolphins and at least you won't be disappointed next year when the Dolphins finish 8-8.

    I have already accepted that I will never find peace with this head coach or with this ownership. Unfortunately I have been a fan since 1966 and the Dolphins are in my blood, so I will just have to suffer until Ross finally sells this team or I die.
     
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  8. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I'm happy about this decision and I don't know if he's a good coach. I'm not even certain he deserves another shot as a HC next year.

    What I do know is what we've seen isn't all on his shoulders. One, the development of RTH has held this team back as much as anything. Our collapse down the stretch last year had as much to do with OL and QB as coaching. I don't believe you can rebuild an entire OL in 1 season. We came close until Albert went down. This isn't a bash RTH or blame him for everything. He was a project coming out of college and he has progressed substantially since last year. Notice that the coaches who maintain their jobs the longest either have elite QB's or great teams built around them.

    Secondly, I think Ireland was retained far longer than he should have been. When I look at the OL woes. The LB woes. The complete miss on the 2013 draft's first 2 rounds(Jordan may have some hope). I see the mark of Ireland. I don't think you can plug that many holes with one offseason including one of the best drafts we've had in recent history with Hickey.

    When things aren't going well, I think it's too easy to blame the QB or the head coach. They certainly have some accountability. But so does the defense who blew lead after lead. So does the OL who struggled mightily to protect their QB after Albert went down. Whether Philbin is to blame or Ireland, I guess we'll see next year.

    These may be excuses. But then again they may be valid reasons.
     
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  9. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I'll give it a shot...since I'm always the optimist and I'm not ready to jump off a bridge whether they keep him or not:

    1. Philbin has been the HC and has developed a few bright stars under his tenure with the team...young guys that have been brought in since he's been here. He's had to fish through Ireland's product and we all know his level of drafting was sub-par. He hasn't even been able to get another job since Miami let him go, what does THAT say about his abilities?

    2. Injuries have been crucial, and HIGHLY disadvantageous to particularly light areas. I really hate that broken hit record, "Offensive Line Woes - By Da Fish," but it came back and bit us in the *** again this year. Very bad timing on those injuries, not that there's ever a good time, but damn...Moreno, O-line, linebackers, secondary, Sturgis (who I'm still not convinced is 100% recovered from a groin pull), are an awful lot for a team with sketchy depth in several places to overcome, no less beat division winning teams week-in/week-out. Tall order, and while it would've been nice to see it happen, it didn't, it proved to be too much for the staff to scheme around and overcome. Not saying it's an excuse, but it's a reality.

    3. Tough schedule. At the beginning of the year nobody knew exactly how tough this schedule would be...but it turned out to be pretty damn rough in the end. We played top 10 defensive lines and defenses A LOT this year. Half of our other-conference games were against teams that could reach the super bowl, and we BARELY lost those...beat Buff and NE (both splits) and competitive until the bitter end against GB, Detroit, Denver, Baltimore somewhat. Many many games against playoff teams, GB, Det, NE x2, Buff (maybe playoff) x2, KC, SD, Den, Baltimore (another maybe). That's 10 games against playoff or potential playoff teams from THIS season. That's a monster schedule. Potential 9-7 with that schedule isn't horrible (not saying I like it, before you get going on that BS), could've been much worse.

    4. New offensive scheme/lid recently coming off. The experts say it takes at least 8 games to judge a veteran QB in a new system. Well, RT's a developing QB in a new system, and I don't know which week it was or what clicked, but he certainly seems to have a strong hold on this offense and they've shown the past few weeks they can do more than dink-dunk every play. Threw up a few low scores in recent weeks prior, but look at the pressure he was under...mitigation there. We could just now be seeing the sprouting of what this offense is capable of...and keeping Philbin/Lazor together could be seen as a catalyst to further progression there, given some more O-line repair and maybe a big receiver this off-season.

    Don't anybody go lighting off on me about this...I don't personally agree with everything, but these are areas I can see Ross giving Philbin consideration on.
     
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  10. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I do root for college teams. I don't expect as much from them because they are amateurs and they aren't playing football for a living.

    If you are happy with mediocre, that is something you have to live with. I just expect more from a professional football organization. One or two years of rebuilding is okay, but this team has basically been rebuilding for the past 15 years.

    I realize all teams have good players and they all have coaches. Unfortunately the better teams have better players and better coaches than the mediocre or bad teams.

    After the past 15 years, I just think it is time the Dolphins get more of the better players and better coaches so they can make it into the playoffs like the better teams do.

    Getting a group of talented players may take a couple of years but hiring a quality head coach is something that could be done in the next few weeks if Ross actually knew what he was doing. Obviuosly he doesn't have a clue as an NFL owner and that means we are stuck with Coach Mediocre again next season.
     
  11. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Way to avoid the topic at hand yet again... Thanks for making the decision easy to not pay attention to anything you say. Because you can ramble on and on about film study and this and that, but you know what... you keep on thinking you're so special, and so much smarter, and so much more informed, and that youre the only one that studies this team on that level. Those of us that do, at least share our opinions. You just like to talk, and pretend you know everything online because it makes you feel good.

    Until you're willing to share this supposed infinite wisdom that you have, your opinions are worthless. Just keep convincing yourself your winning every argument though, without providing any sort of argument that you actually have a clue. You might take your own opinion as gospel, but the rest of us don't.

    So, since you're so much more intelligent than all of us here on this situation, yet again... I'll ask. Please sir... with all your wisdom of football. Please tell us why we should keep Joe Philbin. Please? Pretty please?

    Give me a break. Cut the act.
     
    bigbry likes this.
  12. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the post, effort, and point of view. And I can understand all your points. They are fair. It just seems like, those are sort of reasons on why not to fire Philbin. A nice defense against firing him. I'm really more looking for an explanation for why he is a good coach, and why I should be glad he is staying. And aside from continuity sake and aside from Lazor.
     
  13. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Stephen Ross is going for the worst Miami Dolphins owner in history award. He really wants it bad.
     
  14. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    You don't have to be glad he is staying.
     
  15. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Not exactly a huge indictment considering the number of choices.
     
  16. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    It will make the Miami Marlins ownership actually look good
     
  17. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Unfortunately, our defense took a step back this year and that's what did us in.

    If we had last year's defense with this year's offense, we're in the playoffs. Defense definitely needs some tweaking this off-season. We have some damn good talent to work with there but we need some upgrades too.

    Tannehill blossoming is the big bright side to me though. That dude as gotten better and better as his career has gone on. Get him some better protection and get a few new pieces on defense and there's no reason we can't be in the playoffs next year. With or without Joe Philbin.
     
  18. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    This. Exactly. This is 100% how I feel. Which is to say I don't feel anything.
     
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  19. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    BC we get the best of both worlds :

    No cursing, gum chewing, untied laces, or candy wrappers, We win games against BAD TEAMS. . . PLUS!

    When philbin turns around - we get paper airplanes, BULLYGATE, tons of cursing and racial epithets, and we get to be blown out in each and every game that matters.

    it sounds like a plan Ross.
     
  20. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    Lazor has plenty to learn as a coordinator. He was the QB coach in Philly. He needs at little time to get better as a coordinator. He definitely is not ready to train or manage coordinators for either side of the ball. He simply is not ready to be a head coach.
     
  21. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    You seem to lack basic reading comprehension skills, among other things. I assume you're angry and looking for a fight so I don't take it personal. You haven't been paying much attention all year so I doubt you'll start now, even if you wanted to, which you clearly don't. Either way I'm not interested in wasting my time, I'd rather sit back with my worthless opinions and laugh as you drown in your own ignorance.

    Cheers.
     
  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    There are 5 obvious reasons:

    1. the urinals in the locker room have never smelled so fresh
    2. we no longer have to look at the pasty white leg's of failure
    3. during the playoffs we have several seldom used or seen plays which use Philbin's bald head as a decoy and involve condoms
    4. You know what your going to get on 3rd and 34 - a 12 yrd screen pass
    5. we need low player morale so that the players fall in line - this has proven to be the best way to win
     
  23. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to find value in your opinions, not bash it just because.
    Now iif you would only share them.
     
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  24. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The toughness of this year's schedule is blowing everyone's minds.

    If we had played next year's schedule this season, we'd be 1 or 2 games better even with the injuries we sustained and we'd have a Wildcard spot locked up. Meanwhile of course, the whole AFC North has been over-inflated. Looking at the different schedules, it's pretty easy to conclude that it was going to be a tough year for Miami regardless of injuries and coaching.

    If it were me, I'd put the over/under on next years win total at about 9.5.

    I think 9 wins will be a disappointment next year. I don't think it's very liberal to say 10-wins is to be expected with 2015's schedule. I think 11-5 is very possible without too much over achievement.

    So, yeah....I guess that would be my best argument for Philbin staying. And for what it's worth, I had the over/under this year at 8.5. I picked us to go 9-7. If we beat the Jets next week (which we should) I will at least have gotten that correct.
     
  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yup. Exactly the response I expected. I'm not angry or looking for a fight. I'm looking for the opinion of someone who claims to have superior knowledge of the game over everyone here, to explain his position on why it's good that Philbin is retained, but you can't do that apparently. So... I rest my case. It's because you simply do not know. All you have to do is explain your position. That's the purpose of the thread. The subject of this thread plays right into your beliefs that Philbin should be retained, but apparently you think you're too good to explain that position, and you'd rather ramble on and on about how great you are, etc. etc. etc. So... really... if all you're going to do is come in with one timers and insult people, just do us all a favor and disappear. If you aren't going to share this knowledge you claim to have, then why are you a part of this community. Again, no disrepsect, because I'm asking for your opinion, which apparently is well informed, but you're being... well.. you know...

    So, its likely for the best if I just put you on ignore as I'm sure many have already, because if you aren't actually going to share anything of value, and just make pointless little posts to get a rise out of people, then I really don't see the point. The purpose is to discuss football here, and the topic of the thread, why should Philbin be retained, so either share that opinion, or just stop the nonsense. Its obvious you wont do that, so therefore, I'm done with it.
     
  26. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How is next years schedule so easy?

    You can't make that prediction now anyway. Who thought the NFC South was going to be historically bad this year?

    The AFC South looks weak now but Indy is good and Houston is on the come. The NFC East has two solid teams and the Giants might bounce back.

    Lastly we likely get Baltimore again. We haven't beate them in 7 years
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If we win against the Jets...

    - 4-2 in the division
    - improved by a win every year
    - willingness to change
    - development of our first real franchise QB since Marino
    - disciplined team in regards to penalties and TOs.
    - the quality of the play on the field has improved when we're at full health
    - won 9 games with a rebuilt oline that was then handicapped by injuries
    - wanted Albert last year
    - if Albert had stayed healthy we likely would have won 1 or 2 more games this year.
    - excellent at challenges

    Does he have areas he's deficient in? Yes absolutely, but its not like Don Shula 2.0 is just waiting for us to call him. For all any of us know, Ross knows Harbaugh is taking the Michigan job and Malzhan isn't ready to leave for the NFL yet, which means there's not a lot left to choose from.
     
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  28. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not really about how easy next year will be, it's about how tough this year was.

    The #1 predictor of success for "mediocre" teams is strength of schedule. While NE, Den and GB are sure to do well regardless, the middle-of-the-road teams (like us) pretty much live and die by the schedules which they are given. That pretty much determines the Wildcard spots.

    I won't go through 2015 game-by-game because you're right--there's a lot of unpredictability--but there's a distinct lack of "elite" teams on our schedule next year.

    We're not going to have to play the AFC West or NFC North divisions, both of which are very good. Heck, even the Vikings put up 35 on us today.
     
  29. 3Pmi

    3Pmi IT Specialist Staff Member Administrator

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    Just what I always wanted. A head coach who has people saying "If our schedule was easier, we'd be a wildcard team!"

    Is that really what we've been reduced to? What about shooting for that next undefeated season?
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Only justification I can come up with for retaining Philbin is that IF you can put together a team that is expected to win say 9 games a season, that probably gets you maybe 1 Superbowl win every 15 years, given all the randomness about strength of schedule, injuries, etc.. Given the lack of SB wins for this team in 40+ years, I'll take those odds!

    (this is a bit of a tongue-in-cheek post, but it's a justification)
     
  31. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is that Ross loves games like the one today. Lots of passing, scoring, down to the wire games. He wants packed stadiums and believes today's game is the way to go. He doesn't want Sparano/Rex/Harbaugh, three yards and a cloud of dust 16-13 football. His enthusiasm after the game was real. He believes he can bring a winner to Miami with stadium upgrades, packed stands, a genuine home field advantage, and most of all a franchise QB.

    Imo this years team ran into problems that only elite QBs can overcome. Everything from the injuries to the schedule. It was more bad luck than bad coaching. With another draft and FA period free from Ireland's mismanagement this team could and should continue to improve.

    Obviously that's not how you look at it, but it's not an unrealistic assessment.
     
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  32. 3Pmi

    3Pmi IT Specialist Staff Member Administrator

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    You're assuming we win against the Jets, which is far from guaranteed.

    If we don't:

    - 3-3 in the division
    - never posted a winning record
    - only changes when FORCED to change (see Sherman, Mike)
    - would have won 1-2 more games if he wasn't so stubborn and started Jason Fox over Dallas Thomas (seriously... how do I keep seeing "Willing to change" as a trait associated with Joe Philbin)
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Jesus man, I said first thing "IF WE WIN AGAINST THE JETS"
     
  34. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    ahhh yes, The man who invented the Orange Carpet and the "fins to the left!!". Always trying to "get fans in the seats". I def. trust him. Balls flying all over the place - i know he likes that, who knows what he does in his spare time, but it ain't getting us wins.
     
  35. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Seriously?

    Your sound, well reasoned, argument, your contribution to this thread is:

    "Stephen Ross is stupid?

    Honestly.... there isn't one other than that."

    Forgive me if I mistakenly thought you were here to voice your opinion that no sound arguments exist, it certainly seems that way from your comments.

    I've shared my views on how factors beyond Philbin's control contributed to the team's failing to exceed expectations in many threads. And that's all they've done to this point, failed to exceed expectations.

    I'm interested in seeing things from ground level, getting into Philbin's shoes, equating the problems he faces with the resources he has to deal with them. You want to look down and pass judgement from your comfy spot on the mountaintop, so maybe it's best we agree to disagree.
     
  36. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    We are twelfth in offensive scoring with a problem offensive line. That is a big improvement. Tannehill is improving, and it is very important to the team that the offensive system is not changed. There is one and only one way to ensure the system is consistent.
     
  37. MiamiMan147

    MiamiMan147 Season Ticket Holder

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    All available evidence points to this being true.
     
  38. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    As many as 16 coaches could possibly be fired this year, the market will be incredibly competitive for the top candidates.
     
  39. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    The Albert injury was devastating and could not possible have come at a worse time, before games vs Detroit, Buffalo, Denver, Baltimore. Actually that's wrong. It could have come in week 2 when Moreno, who was also a primary weapon on offense, was lost for the season. Wilson, Finnegan, Thomas, Davis, Taylor & Delmas all injured, in addition to missing Jones for four games and Jordan for 6.

    Drawing the NFC North and AFC West while the Ravens, Steelers, Bengals and Browns fattened up on the AFC and NFC South, arguable the worst divisions in football.

    OTOH, Philbin doesn't have enough "fire". So maybe all that stuff doesn't matter.
     
  40. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    The amount of evidence available varies.
     

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