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Hyde: Ross keeps Philbin, but doesn't get off that easy . . .

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Jersey Dolfan, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Norv Turner is a much better coach than Joe Philbin.

    Hell, he's even got a personality.
     
    Vertical Limit likes this.
  2. Dansar

    Dansar Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I totally support this view. This team is significantly better than last years and it makes no sense to go through a rebuilding phase. While our offense has sputtered at times overall it is significantly improved. Lazor's first year getting to know the players capabilities and recognizing his shortfalls should only improve with time, remember this was his first year as a OC. I absolutely love what Hickey has done in his first year and feel extremely confident he has a plan to plug our holes and improve our depth. Coyle is a bit of a mystery, I believe his scheme has shown top 5 potential but am a bit at a lost for the recent collapse, other than the lack of quality depth at LB and CB derailed us. While I am not a Big Fan of Philbin I believe we have the best group of staff and assistants we have had for a long time and do feel they warrant another year together.
     
  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The team this year had more potential than last. Did it do any better in harnessing it?

    **** no.
     
  4. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    Droopy Dog loves him some Buford Buzzard. Unreal.
     
  5. Dansar

    Dansar Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If playoffs was the goal NO

    If being competitive against elite teams YES

    If improving in draft selection and free agency YES

    If improving in Offensive Production YES

    If improving at QB YES

    Solving Offensive Line problems YES/NO (yes with Albert/ No without)

    Was our schedule tougher YES

    Did our defense collapse YES

    We can argue all we want and you are more than welcome to your opinion as am I. My choice is to build on what I see as improvement as opposed to starting at square one again. Be honest what was your prediction at the beginning of the year? 8-8 9-7 10-6 11-5!!!
     
  6. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    My prediction this late summer/fall was to make the play-offs. I always swell with hope as the season approaches.
    My prediction last winter was to go 7-9 - 9-7, not make the Playoffs, where Philbin would finally be fired.

    I guess I was partially right.
     
  7. JimToss

    JimToss Thank You Chad Pennington

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    With this decision, Philbin will be here through at least the 2016 season.
    We will be better next year just due to getting a healthy oline back, player growth, and Lazor's experience.
    So we can all look forward now to a few more years of our droopy head coach just doing a "heckuva" job.
    Bleh
     
  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ahh... nothing like good old speculation and opinion passed off as fact.
     
  9. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sorry if you took it as a statement of fact. It was opinion, as are most statements made by fans, on this and similar boards. Had I meant to state a fact, I would have cited a source, even an anonymous one.
     
  10. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Getting a new head coach doesn't automatically mean you are doomed to a cycle of losing. Jim Harbaugh and Chip Kelly both came in and immediately turned losing teams into playoff teams.

    So did Mike McCoy.

    We're even in a better position than some of those other teams. No reason a really good head coach couldn't come in and have immediate success even if the systems change.
     
  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The motivation and thought process of Stephen Ross is absolutely suspect.
     
  12. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Unless they start winning.

    Then all bets are off, and everybody is a genius.
     
  13. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    If we hired a defensive coach, it would've likely resulted in the offense staying the same. We could then switch to a 3-4 which suits our defensive personnel, granted our hypothetical head coach is a 3-4 guy. I also don't see why even hiring Harbaugh would've resulted in "blowing it all up".
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Like I said, make them prove it.

    And Philbin will never be a genius, even if he gets to the playoffs. Wanny went 22-10 over his first two seasons here
     
  15. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    Hahah oh boy, you know what? Thanks for reminding me that this clown gave up a division-rival home game next year and put it in London! Thanks. Just add it to this idiots blunders. People need to stop seeking justification and accept we have a really, really, ****ty owner.

    A lot of being rich has to do with luck. I think this clown proves that.

    As for people above saying how much we are better than last year - NO! We are the exact same as last year. 8-7. Period

    Are we better BC of some nice rookies and etc? Or BC our QB is better? OK that's on Lazor and Hickey, and even with those improved players, we are still exactly the same as last year. Running in place with Failbin.

    Ross "likes Joe philbin" a lifeless drone who picks up gum wrappers, Ross is the same idiot who "likes" the idea of moving a division home game and moving games to 4 in September (remember that?) And the orange carpet and the damn t-pain remix. Whatever Ross thinks or likes. Do the opposite. Everyone can et their hopes up that maybe Ross knows something, but he knows nothing.

    If Tanney improves next year maybe we grab a wildcard. Maybe. But until philbin is gone, we are not doing much more than running in place. Guy is not a head coach. Its obvious.
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    This team should've won 9+ games last year, which means it should've won 10+ this year, especially with those first four "YESSES" you checked off. As such, 9 wins this year would NOT be deemed an improvement over 8-8. It'd be a 1+ game regression from 10-6+.

    BTW, I see you omitted from your list- "If seeing a tangible improvement in coaching and game-day management [excluding Lazor] is your goal".

    Firstly, if the team is significantly better than last year's [which I agree], then where are the results on the field? If we happen to lose next week and disappointingly finish 8-8 again, then both the beneficial additional of Lazor and all of the roster improvements [including the development and ascension of young players] will have amounted to nothing but a bunch of wheel spinning. Who cares if the team is better if the head coach doesn't know how to win with it.

    Secondly, why do you falsely ASSUME there'd be a rebuild with a new coach? Do you actually think Hickey would want to rebuild something he's already been working on and isn't in need of a rebuild? If the roster isn't a giant cluster**** then you don't blow it up and start over.

    If Hickey and Ross were to hire a good head coach this time around, the new, competent HC wouldn't need to execute dumb, damaging roster moves like ditching Dansby, Vontae, and Marshall. At the most there'd be a new DC, a change in defensive scheme, and a slight change in the roster, but that's all stuff that should be occurring regardless.

    You and others throw the "rebuild" word around so loosely that it's becoming a silly cliche'. Because of free agency, the draft, injuries, players aging, and players regressing, there will perpetually be a slight rebuild in progress. Hickey rebuilt the O-line last year. Was that a bad thing? The receiving corpse could use a makeover, but I guess that would be a bad thing as well, eh? The secondary with the exception of a few players might need to be rebuilt over the next few years, or should we just extend Grimes, Finnegan, and the injury prone Delmas until they're 50 instead? Something isn't clicking with the D-line, as the unit has a propensity for getting gashed in the run game and has been inconsistent at applying pressure. I guess we should let that maintain status quo, too, as well as allow Coyle's underwhelming ability and scheme to continue underwhelming us? There's something like $85 million tied up in linebackers who might not be deemed necessary. Should we also ignore that in order to maintain this complete and utter status quo position you seem to desire?
     
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  17. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    This
     
  18. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Of course he does...you and I alone are not strong enough to impact the NFL money-making machine, so as fans, we have to accept what the owner chooses to do...that's life. It's been that way everywhere in the NFL...tell me one instance where the fans made a difference (except as noise makers in the crowd at a stadium) that affected an owners decision ?? Ray Rice ?? No.... AP...no... the fact that Fisher CONTINUES to allow and propagate his players to 'bend' the rules of sportsmanship ?? No...

    We have an owner who is still learning the ropes unfortunately...or maybe he's waiting to wipe out the entire regime after next season...IDK, but I do know that we, as Fins fans, once again get to bite the bullet...
     
  19. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Todd... a new, competent head coach would certainly have his own spin on personnel...that would change whatever it is that Philbin has started in his tenure here...that constitutes a 'rebuilding' of sorts...maybe not a major change, but what if the new HC is not a WCO type guy ?? What if he has ties to Coyle and elects to keep him (God forbid)?? Yeah, a new HC means a rebuild...perhaps not in the vein of turning over 40 players that are currently on the roster, but there will be significant changes to what Philbin has started nonetheless....
     
  20. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Personnel? He threw good players like Vontae Davis, Sean Smith and Karlos Dansby overboard rather than coaching them. That meant years of drafts and development needed to be replaced. And they still haven't all been replaced.

    - He doesn't pick the players he has. He has to play the players that are given to him.

    Leadership? The Jonathan Martin debacle was the ugliest in-team issue in NFL history. This year was a series of incidents, like Philbin mishandling a simple, who's-the-starting-quarterback question so badly even Tannehill was publicly upset for the first time in three years.

    - While I agree that he mishandled the JM incident, he learned and corrected that. He inherited those problems and I chalk that up to his inexperience. Mishandled Tannehill starting so badly, is a major reach. Most of that is blown up by the media to create controversy that it's laughable. BTW how did lighting a fire under him work out for that next game. Did he lay an egg?

    Strategy? Name a NFL coach who felt "queasy" making a decision in the final minutes? Philbin admitted that after demanding Lazor run, not pass, in the Green Bay finish. The Dolphins then punted to allow Aaron Rodgers to prove again he's the game's best quarterback.

    - That's the biggest problem you pointed to was that he gave a true answer that he felt queasy, hell I was feeling queasy and was sitting on the coach.

    Were playing with 3rd stringers on the offensive line, our LB's are decimated along with having almost the entire secondary missing most of the year. Everybody has injuries but it comes down to the TALENT. Joe is not dropping balls. He's not fumbling the ball or taking a bad sack at a critical time or a blown coverage. There's been a major drum beat that Ireland was horrible with the drafts and bringing in talent. So how again is that Joe's fault. It's about talent on the field.
     
  21. Dansar

    Dansar Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure how you come up with me being happy with status quo from my post. I very much want to see improvement's in all phases. All I am saying is that I have seen improvement over last year which I agree have mainly come from Hickey and Lazor. We only differ on new Head Coach or retaining Philbin, my opinion bearing in mind I have no knowledge of the interactions with players and coaches or locker room camaraderie to evaluate his leadership skills, which is the case for all of us. I elect to keep Philbin to ensure Hickey and Lazor stay onboard. Yes you could be right a new coach may not get rid of them, but he could equally clean shop.
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Do you honestly think Hickey, Ross, and Ross's advisors would hire a new head coach without first vetting him to see what changes he'd make and to determine whether or not these changes would be acceptable? C'mon.

    Hickey just paid considerable expense to staff Lazor's offense with more appropriate personnel [1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks spent on it, plus Albert's hefty contract, as well as the year spent developing our QB in this system], and Ross and the rest of the organization are aware of this paid expense, as well as the potential this offense has flashed. Do you think the decision makers would actually tolerate a HC wanting to needlessly scrap it all? The team doesn't require a rebuild, and Ross knows this. It simply requires a HC who can do what Philbin couldn't- win with what we've got and hire a qualified DC. Coyle and his defensive system need to go, period, just as Sherman and his system needed to go. So yes, that's somewhat of a significant change, but it's clearly a necessary one that we should all be WELCOMING, not complaining about. Unlike Philbin, a new head coach who's worth a damn would recognize this problem and attempt to fix it. Retaining Philbin, however, means a strong likelihood that Coyle is retained, just as Joe foolishly wanted to retain Sherman.

    Speaking generally, I'm sick and tired of this ridiculous "continuity" argument. Philbin inherited a young, great defense that possessed the potential to become elite, the potential to become the type of defense capable of carrying a team on its back into the playoffs. Joe took this promising D and is slowly running it into the ground. Is that what you really want? We've gone from 6th in pts allowed under Mike Nolan in 2011 to 7th in 2012, 8th in 2013, and now 18th in 2014. The team has the TALENT to shut out Rivers and San Diego, but is improperly coached and schemed to allow 35 goddam points to the NFL's 20th ranked offense [Minnesota]. The defense has the TALENT to hold Green Bay's offense to 20 pts through 59 minutes and 45 seconds but is improperly coached and schemed to allow 31.2 pts/game the past 5 weeks.

    Everything WOULD'VE been in place right now to form an imposing, top 3 defense. Vontae should still be here- paired with Grimes to make the best corner tandem in the league. Dansby should still be here- serving as the defense's leader, heartbeat, and playmaker in the middle. Dion Jordan should be the starting SAM hybrid after being groomed as such from day 1. The trio of Dansby, Jordan, and Jenkins would be formidable, and it would've made the contracts given to Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Misi unnecessary, which could've been more judiciously allocated for improvement elsewhere. The defensive front should be schemed to be more situationally versatile to do a better job against the run [using Under fronts and 3-4 looks which Miami has the personnel to execute], which in turn should create more 3rd & longs to combat being 27th worst on 3rd down. The D-line sees too much of Cam Wake on the left side in base D against what is typically the offense's strong side. Not surprisingly, the D-line allows the 20th most adjusted YPC off right tackle and 26th most off right end.... and not surprisingly, it sees the league's 5th highest percentage of runs to that direction as teams have done their homework and realize our scheme can be exploited there. This isn't a recently emerging phenomenon either as it ranked 32nd in adjusted YPC off right tackle last year. It wasn't an issue in 2012 when Miami went with a bigger front with Soliai commanding doubles in the middle and Odrick frequently at RE. Philbin & Coyle should've recognized this weakness, just as our opponents have, and addressed it during last season or this offseason at the latest. Now, not only does our D-line feature a pair undersized starting DEs but also a pair of undersized 300 pound DTs and a 305 pound rotational DT, the collective of whom Denver proved is susceptible against a big, physical Oline. Heck, even the Jets moderately big and physical O-line proved it. Yet here Philbin is- still afraid of change just as he was afraid to fire Sherman for his obvious inadequacy.

    Decisions and evaluations will need to be made on a yearly basis no matter who the HC is, so with that said, do you really want them being made by a guy with a history of making poor decisions just because you have some irrational phobia that a new HC will somehow be WORSE than Philbin and will somehow dismantle the team and offensive system against Ross & Hickey's wishes. What does continuity matter if the HC makes bad decisions, has a poor pulse on his locker room, is unable to coach up and motivate the talented roster he's got, coaches and makes decisions out of fear instead of with a pair of balls, is an average coach at best on game day, is average at best at game planning, is unable to get this team consistently playing with the attitude, mentality, and focus needed to go all 60 minutes, not 50, and all 16 games, not 12?

    It's not demanding or unrealistic to tell a new head coach that he has to keep the offensive system & QB in place and that he needs to first see what he can get out of the existing roster [minus a few pieces in need of replacing] before looking to make heavy changes to it. Case in point, that's what Harbaugh did in San Fran, except he kept the promising defensive scheme in place and changed the offense IIRC, whereas Miami's new HC would be tasked with the opposite. We're probably in the playoffs right now if Philbin addressed DC in the offseason.
     
  23. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree that Ross is the owner and he has every right as the owner to do what he pleases with his team and his money.

    I also understand that since he took over as the owner of this team, my excitement for Dolphin games has dropped considerably. In fact yesterday I went out to play golf during the game and recorded it to watch later. I know that was not something I would have ever done in my earlier years as a Dolphin fan.

    When I lived in South Florida I attended hundreds of Dolphins games at home and away. I used to look forward to the Dolphin season starting and once the season ended, I couldn't wait for the next season to begin.

    Under this ownership, I just don't feel excited about the team anymore. Based on the small crowds attending home games, I'm obviously not the only Dolphin fan who has lost interest since Ross became the owner of this team.

    Since I have been a fan of this team from its inception in 1966, I have no interest in rooting for any other team in the NFL. A part of me will always be a Dolphin fan, but I am not a fan of the owner. I believe he is the major problem with this organization and I wish he would sell the team to someone who might actually have a clue when it comes to running an NFL team.

    That is the problem when someone with billions of dollars decide they want to be an NFL owner. They have the money and connections to become an owner, but it doesn't mean they have the ability to run a professional football team. Ross has showed over the past six years that has no idea how to put a winning product on the field.

    As the owner he has the right to do whatever he wants to with this team and that includes hiring individuals who are mediocre at best. As a fan I just have to accept this incompetent owner at this time and just hope that he will sell the team before I become worm food.
     
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  24. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    On the other hand, there is a pretty strong possibility that Harbaugh, Kelly and McCoy's teams will all miss the playoffs with the same record as Philbin (or worse). So it's not like those coaches are guaranteed to make you a winner or take a team to the playoffs.
     
  25. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Here Here, Jw...couldn't agree more...
     

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