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Miami Dolphins will consider moving Dion Jordan to linebacker

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    When the Dolphins traded up in the 2013 draft to grab Dion Jordan No. 3 overall, they envisioned him as an athletic, pass-rushing freak.

    But nearly two years into his tenure in Miami, the Dolphins can’t find a regular spot for him in the lineup.

    For the first time Monday, defensive coordinator Kevin Coyle acknowledged that coaches would consider moving Jordan next season from defensive end to outside linebacker, where the Dolphins have a much greater need.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...ns-will-consider-moving-dion-jordan-to/njYmH/
     
  2. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Only took Coyle 2 years to figure out what we've all known since we drafted him.
     
  3. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Won't hold my breath.
     
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  4. speed

    speed Banned

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    He has to be better than Trusnik or Wheeler.

    Right?
     
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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At very least I'm assuming this means Jordan is going to drop weight and go back to being an edge rusher, which is excellent.

    The linebacker position in a base defense really isn't a pass rushing position. It's generally filled by 3-4 OLB, and sometimes that player might be a Nickel edge rusher, but the base package position is a "true" linebacker role.
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think we as fans forget there's more to matching a position and player then just physical ability.

    3 parts to matching a player to a position:

    - Physical Ability
    - Mental Acuity
    - Drive/Determination/Heart/etc.

    While Jordan certainly has the physical ability in spades, he may have been lacking in one or both of the others parts. And that is something, we as fans, simply don't know because we don't have that kind of access.
     
  7. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm inclined to say it's option 3 of those you listed. I think he might be a little off on the mental side of things, but they've put him in various positions/coverages and he's not been a liability in those situations. He's also admitted he's had a drug problem.
     
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  8. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    Too little, too late for Coyle. I think he should be gone after this season. I know it's extremely far fetched but I would like to see Rex come on down to fill that job.
     
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  9. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    Great news, should of tried it a while ago. Although it concerns me that a project like this could justify Coyle keeping his job. We gotta tweek something, we should be in the playoffs.
     
  10. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I think I read they wanted to move him there before this season but because of his suspension it complicated the move so they decided to hold off.
     
  11. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    Better late than never I suppose.
     
  12. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My question with Dion Jordan moving to OLB would be does Miami just simply plug him into Philip Wheeler's spot with Chris McCain as a backup (honestly, that's intriguing), or do they tweak the defense to where they're aligning more like Denver does with a bigger, more stout base DE in Derek Wolfe that allows Von Miller to rush more? Miami did this in 2012 with Jared Odrick, but I think we all can see that Koa Misi is not a Von Miller type of OLB. You could say the same thing with respect to Seattle having Red Bryant there last year and now moving Michael Bennett to being a full-time starter with Bruce Irvin coming off the edge.

    I like Olivier Vernon, but I'm not sure he's the right player to have in front of Dion Jordan if you're moving Dion Jordan to OLB.
     
  13. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    [video]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQ3ywwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNop tofKbQ04&ei=M4SZVJC5KsukNvbpgfAC&usg=AFQjCNEiEI08oeuj0On6rOqdfNI7u244gQ&bvm=bv.82001339,d.eXY[/video]
     
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  14. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    Gee. where we have we seen a tweener DE/OLB who played standing up and in a 3 pt stance.

    I just can't think of where that has worked before...
     
  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kevin Coyle has had his heart set on finding that 6-technique that we've been casting around trying to find for a couple years now- Someone big enough to tangle with a tackle but still someone who can still rush outside of the tackle. Odrick was too slow, Vernon too small, and Jordan didn't acclimate to the weight.

    That's probably going to cost, and you're not really fixing the DT problem either.
     
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  16. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Isn't Dion Jordan a pass rusher first and foremost?

    Why in the world would we want to take such a premier talent and ask him to cover and make tackles in space?

    How is that a good thing?
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Took two years to see what most would have seen coming out of the draft.
     
  18. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    You got it backwards. He was always an athletic fluid player that was great in space as a linebacker in college. Casting him to a down lineman was not what he ever did well...
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No. Not really. Anyone that watched him extensively at Oregon should have known that he was an outside linebacker. I mean literally, that's what he was at Oregon. That's where he made a name for himself. He was a guy with a superior body, superior athleticism, fluidity, agility, etc...whose pass rush was probably the most questionable aspect of his game, relative to his translation to an NFL defense. The potential was there in pass rush but he certainly did not make good on that potential at Oregon. He didn't show his ability to bend often enough. He was WAY too much of a one-trick pony, wasn't great at stringing together moves and counters, didn't really show great instincts for setting up blockers or adapting his pass rush by situation.

    For these reasons I could not support him as the #3 overall pick. But he did have a tremendous amount of potential as an outside linebacker where he could rush, drop back in coverage, play in space with surprising ability, and perhaps even blitz with high efficiency (more effective blitzer than pass rusher and there most certainly is a difference). Guys that lengthy with that kind of speed and fluidity, just not common.

    There's a reason they had him shadow Megatron in man coverage during the final stages of the Detroit game. Now, that was a dumb move in my overall opinion, but only because they haven't been training the guy in space as a linebacker and in coverage from the start. They've been doing the opposite, which in my opinion was misguided. I could see it in his rookie year because if pass rush was his biggest stumbling block then I can see the logic in allowing him to be a relative redshirt while he trains up that pass rush under Kacy Rodgers as a full time pass rush specialist. You could justify the move on that basis, thinking long term. Maybe not the smartest move, but justifiable. However in 2014 when they reaffirmed that he is a down defensive end ONLY, even implying that they were going to take away what little coverage duties he had in 2013 (e.g. Gronkowski a few times, Graham a few times, etc)...that was a mistake. By now he should have already been training as a linebacker. And to just throw him in cold with barely any training to shadow the best wide receiver in football during a clutch moment was beyond reckless.

    But with a little bit of training, it won't be so reckless anymore. It's something he could do for the defense that presents real value, if trained properly.

    I don't know what possessed Jeff Ireland to scout the Oregon outside linebacker and say hey this guy can be our full time down defensive end in our 4-3 defense opposite a lightweight defensive end like Cam Wake.

    Just didn't make sense.
     
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  20. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wonder if you can put Odrick back there and the combination of he and Jordan is enough to use to apply pressure at the rate you'd want. Still doesn't fix the interior spots, but I think you could draft a 3-technique. Or vice-verse, re-sign Odrick or make a run at Suh and draft a 5/6 technique type player (Erik Armstead, Mario Edwards Jr. maybe...)

    I doubt it comes to that as I feel like Kevin Coyle is too much in love with Olivier Vernon.
     
  21. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Jordan transitioning to LB would help the need at that position, leaving only MLB to be filled (Jenkins should obviously start at OLB next season too). Surprised it took so long.
     
  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't Lawrence taylor a LB?
     
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  23. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    My paraplegic grandmother, on average, could probably take better angles and use better tackling form than either.
     
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  24. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    mccain, misi, jenkins, and jordan would be a nice linebacking unit
     
  25. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Must resist
     
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  26. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Nah. Don't hold back bro. I know she's old but let 'er have it.
     
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  27. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    By Paraplegic you mean A cups.
     
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  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    CiF, is that you?
     
  29. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    I cant go any furthur
     
  30. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd hope they take a look at Benardrick McKinney or Denzel Perryman in the Draft.
     
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  31. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Don't know much about McKinney, but I think Perryman will probably go around top 10. An ILB in the 1st and Todd Gurley in the 2nd (trade up?) would make this draft a big win as far as I'm concerned.
     
  32. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most of the Draft sites I peruse have McKinney rated as the top ILB, though I believe he was a SAM LB for Miss. State up until this year. He's an athletic freak, and he's like 6'4" 250lbs, so think along the lines of Karlos Dansby when he was in shape. Most seem to project Perryman as a late-first or surefire 2nd round pick at this point. I'm guessing the primary reason for that is his height.
     
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  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Excuse me if I disagree in one regard. It's pretty difficult for Jordan to display exactly what type of mental acuity, drive, heart, etc he does or doesn't have as an NFL linebacker if Coyle and Philbum initially deny him the opportunity to prove himself. They wanted him at DE, period. None of this other crap has anything to do with it so please stop making excuses for their inexcusable behavior. The fact that they're now considering moving Dion discredits your post as it applies to him.
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's why I think it would behoove us to go after JPP rather than re-up Odrick. He's become fairly stout vs the run and is accustomed to rushing from the interior in nickel where he can use his length & athleticism to disrupt passing lanes if he can't get to the QB. That's what I'd love to see from Miami with Jordan, especially paired with JPP inside in pass rush situations. Maybe have Jordan standing up and letting him delay his rush a second to wait for rush lanes that organically open up.

    I'd also consider using Wake less frequently in base D so that we could more appropriately mirror the offense's strong side. Glue Vernon to the weak side while having whichever bigger DE we get [hopefully] follow around the strong side.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's just not true. You have no idea what concepts they've tried to teach him. You have no idea what parts of the playbook they wanted him to study. You have no idea what drills he's run. None of us have the kind of access that we could be possibly know any of those.
     
  36. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Put him in a Jamie Collins rover type role.
     
  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Oh spare me dude. You have no idea about what they did or didn't try either, so stop with your assumptions that it was Jordan's fault rather than ignorance and stupidity on theirs. You act like these guys have a history of making wise decisions and as such deserve the benefit of the doubt, but that's simply not true. They stuck Jordan at DE right from the start b/c Joe "I make decisions out of fear and impatience" Philbin and Coyle didn't realize Vernon would become the player he was last year despite Ireland feeling quite strongly about Vernon's potential when drafted.

    Secondly and most importantly, Ireland extensively did his goddam homework on Jordan before trading up to #3 for such a dynamic player he confidently believed would specifically be playing OLB, so spare me the "you don't know what drills they put him through" bull****. If there's one thing Ireland has been great at it's identifying defensive talent, especially pass rushers, most specifically- hybrid type pass rushers who can play 3-4 OLB, and he runs circles around Philbum & Coyle in doing so.

    You act like Miami was run by WalterFootball and spent all of 10 minutes watching a couple YouTube clips of Dion before drafting him. He was thoroughly f***ing vetted first to determine the type of player he is, the type of person he is, the position he'll play, and whether or not Ireland and his evaluators feel strongly enough about his potential at that position to make him the draft's first defender taken, and I guarantee you Ireland and his staff invested a LOT MORE TIME in making this evaluation than whatever Coyle & Philbum did at the start of Jordan's rookie year while he was still recovering from February shoulder surgery that limited his participation early on when these so-called assessments you speak of would've been made.
     
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  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    For god's sake, give it the hell up. I didn't say anything in the affirmative. I said that "may" have been the reason. And, I specifically pointed out we don't know because we don't have the access.

    But fine, neither of us know what happened and what didn't.....so you're right and I can't be? Awesome logic.
     
  39. pmj

    pmj New Member

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    pretty much every reporter that has watched more practices than any of us thinks he he should have been a lb too. It's possible it's Dions fault, but it just doesn't seem as likely as the alternative that our coaching staff is just stubborn.
     
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  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No, I know for a fact that Jordan was heavily vetted before Ireland spent a 1st & 2nd round pick to make him our hybrid linebacker of the future. The determination had ALREADY BEEN MADE that Jordan was suitable for the role he might finally get to see in his 3rd year. The other 4 facts are: 1. Philbum has a history of making poor decisions. 2. Coyle already had three linebackers in Misi, Ellerbe, and Wheeler which likely and idiotically deterred him from keeping Jordan at OLB. 3. Coyle & Philbin weren't sure about second year Vernon. 4. Coyle came from a system in Cincy that utilizes a long, larger DE.

    They jumped the gun on Dion. They did the complete opposite of what you said they did- they stuck him in at DE without providing him opportunity to show out at OLB. Dion missed most of the early practices due to his shoulder, and within 3 days of him finally suiting up he was penciled in at DE where he was expected to face a positional battle with Vernon. As far as his "mentality" goes that you spoke of questionably, Cam Wake specifically stated during camp that he displayed the correct mental approach, and I'm guessing by teammate reactions to Dion's big special teams play that he's well liked and heavily supported by them. It was the type of reaction you'd expect toward a player who is doing everything asked of him and finally gets a moment to shine.
     
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