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we need a new defensive coordinator

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by the 23rd, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If the NT is not playing 2-gap, then I don't call it a 3-4... because it isn't a 3-4. Just because a DE stands up, that doesn't make it a 3-4. The whole point of the traditional 3-4 is to play 3 2-gap linemen up front to plug the line of scrimmage, letting the LBs make plays.

    Now, you want to tell me, "But we can allow our 3 DL to use 1-techniques..." Yeah, well, then that's not a 3-4. That's a hybrid 4-3 with a stand-up LB replacing a DE.

    Whatever. We do that already.

    4-3, 3-4, 5-2... we use a lot of fronts. I especially like the 5-2. 3 DTs, Wake and OV with their hands in the dirt. In the eyes of the 'I love Madden NFL and I want to run a 3-4' crowd, that formation should make them happy. They'd probably think it's a real 3-4. That is, if they actually payed any attention to what's going on in the games, and saw what fronts we actually ran.

    So, in response to the OP... this 'we need to go to a 3-4' argument that keeps coming up is a joke to me. I'm not anything close to being a real coach, but, even I know it's ridiculous.

    Good lord, if I were a DC and someone threw that question at me, I'd explode. :lol:
     
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  2. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess you could plausibly use that term to identify a certain kind of defense, but I'm not sure what the need for alternate terminology is, and it doesn't really fit 1-gap 3-4 defenses as a whole.

    It violates the [down linemen]-[linebackers] convention(which I'm not sure really why this gets done), and I don't think it communicates tendencies properly. When you use "5-2" to describe a Wade Phillips-style defense, you're describing a defense where the edge defenders are more rusher than linebacker. If you're calling something a "hybrid 4-3 with a stand-up DE replacing a LB", you're communicating one linebacker is a rusher and one is a "true" linebacker, which isn't inherently true.

    If someone is suggesting the Dolphins switch to a 1-gap 3-4(or whatever you want to call it), you're still talking about a direction you're taking philosophically and personnel wise going forward.
     
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  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Even if you, yourself, don't call it a 3-4, there are plenty of people, NFL-related included, who will call a 1-gap 34 a 34 defense. Who cares what the point of a "traditional" 3-4 is if you're not looking to run a traditional 3-4? Our personnel is better suited for a 1-gap 34 that allows the front 7 to be more aggressive and often lets them play faster since there's not as much reading and reacting involved with the gap assignments being simpler. I believe the hybrid 4-3 you're talking about is a 4-3 Under like Denver and Seattle run that replaces one of the DEs with a 5-tech and replaces the SAM with a rush linebacker. That's not the same as a 1-gap 34, especially since that 4-3 Under look can mix both 1 and 2 gap principles. Or maybe you're referencing San Fran's 3-4 D that will use a 4-3 Under front that feature both rush linebackers on the line.

    I find it amusing that you basically use semantics as a reason to smugly go off on people who use the term 1-gap 34, saying that it's not actually a 3-4 blah blah blah traditional blah blah blah but then you turn around and reference a 4-3 Under that, like in San Fran's case, isn't a traditional 4-3 at all. It's really a 5-2 with the ends standing up rather than fingers in dirt.

    Personally, I would rather say "1-gap 34" because it's a lot simpler for most people to picture and because it easily lets people understand that Wake would be in a more appropriate and less physically demanding role than this current nonsense. You'd run it like San Fran does with a left-right OLB scheme rather than the common one that features a designated SOLB-WOLB since Wake, Jordan, and Vernon have enough ability and athleticism to play both SOLB and WOLB in my opinion. This way those 3 can always remain edge defenders and can do so without sacrificing strongside-weakside integrity like the current scheme does. From that, we'd be able to mix in Seattle/Denver's 4-3 Under stuff where Wake is the SAM covered up by a 5-tech end when the offense's strength lines up to our left, and Cam becomes the rush end or LEO when the offense's strength lines up to the right. Ditto with Jordan/Vernon who would play either right side SAM or right side rush end depending on which side the offense's strength lines up.
     
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  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    If the 2-gap 34NT is worth his salt, he's more than likely gonna command doubles, so how much actual 2-gapping is he engaging in? At least in a 1-gap 34 you can dictate which guard is providing the double rather than leaving it up to the offense. Plus, with the right personnel you can execute a 1-gap and hold which offers plenty of space-occupying since you don't have to be aggressive and focus on penetration. You can have the defenders just stand their ground in their gaps to wall off the line and leave no space to run through.

    BTW, Brian Cushing had 134 tkls, 5 sacks, 4 INT, 2 FF, and 10 PD in Houston's 1-gap 34. I don't believe he as the linebacker was prohibited from "making plays" like you intimated.

    And speaking of Houston, even Connor Barwin called Wade Phillip's defense a 3-4 even though it was a 1-gap.
     
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  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If you have 3 DL with their hand in the dirt, and 4 LBs standing up, regardless of whether the two OLBs are stacked behind the DEs, or lined up next to them, that is a 3-4 defense regardless of whether the 3 DL are playing 1 gap or 2 gap. The formation we used with Wake and Vernon standing up outside on the line, and Starks, Mitchell and Odrick all lined up between them with their hands in the dirt, is same way the Giants used to line up in their 3-4 most of the time when Carl Banks and Lawrence Taylor were their OLBs. Banks btw was the best Sam OLB I have ever seen. Especially when it came to stacking and holding the POA. If you wanted to make the designation of 3-4, 4-3, or 5-2 by how many are on the line regardless of their being in a 2 point, 3 point, or 4 point stance, then the old Giants were usually in a 5-2, but then if you have a safety come down into the box does that make it a 5-3? Strictly speaking, I guess so. Usually though the designation of 3-4, 4-3 etc is used by how many are up and how many are down, among the DL and the LBs.
     
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  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    On that point it seems to me it was also that way under Mike Nolan, Paul Pasqualoni, Dom Capers, Bill Bates, George Hill, etc too. IIRC anyway.
     
  7. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am getting so tired of arguing in this forum format. In fact, I'm just getting tired of arguing in general.

    All I said was we don't have the personnel to run a 2-gap system. Now, you're telling me I'm 'wrong' and arguing we could run a 1-gap system.

    Uh-huh.

    You got me. :pity:
     
  8. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Come on MrClean...you have to be kidding me right? He is absolutely horrible as the Canes DC !!
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Did I say he wasn't??? No I did not. I said, if you care to reread it, he was a great college linebacker, and IF (the key word here) he coached as well as he played, he'd be a fine DC.
     

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