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A Sound, Well Constructed Argument Why It Is Good That Philbin Is Retained

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sethdaddy8, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    When it comes to deciding to pursue Harbaugh as the Dolphins HC or letting Michigan offer him the head coaching job, Ross is going to pick Michigan over the Dolphins every day of the week.

    He would much rather see Harbaugh at Michigan, even if it means we are stuck with Philbin next season.

    Ross loves his old College Michigan. He merely sees the Dolphins as another business opportunity.
     
    DolphinGreg likes this.
  2. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    You have some legitimate proof to back up your last sentence/claim?

    I mean if it is just a business opportunity I don't know why he'd put up his own money for stadium renovations.
     
  3. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    It makes you wonder when someone would take Ellerbe and Misi over Dansby. Also not accepting that the trading of Vontae was a huge mistake is simply not seeing reality.

    I guess the defense this season is the worst defense in the past four years doesn't register with Phinsanity.

    All I know is that I would take the 2011 over this years defense and not think twice about it. Just in case phinsanity forgot, that team had Dansby and Davis as starters and they gave up far less points than this bottom tier defense did this year.
     
  4. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is probably true, IMO. As for me, I'm excited to see Harbaugh finish 2nd every year behind Urban Meyer. ;)
     
    JMHPhin likes this.
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Who are Larry and Piston?
     
  6. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    He will make far more money for himself by being able to entice big events like the Super Bowl and NCAA championships to HIS stadium.

    As far as spending his own money for stadium renovations is concerned. He owns the stadium, so why shouldn't he be the person responsible for funding the renovations. Do you expect others to pay for renovations to properties you own?

    If you actually believe Ross is putting in the renovations simply to accommodate the fans and not because he sees it as a way to make more money, I really don't see how I can change your view.

    All I know is that he certainly didn't become a muti-billionaire by being concerned with anything other than the bottom line and how best he could increase that bottom line.

    I have no problem with him as a businessman and attempting to make as much money as possible. That is why I think in the real estate business , he is certainly a genius.

    As an NFL owner, I just don't see him as someone who has a clue how to run a successful football organization. That is why I wish he would sell the team and stick to real estate investing.
     
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  7. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Everybody clamoring to say thier final thank you, and thier final good will to Jim Harbaugh as the Niner game ends. Gave him a Gatorade bath and game ball on sideline. Yeah, seems like a real ****heel.
     
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  8. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    You know...Larry, Greg, and Piston.


    The 3 Philbin Stooges.
     
  9. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Screw you Seth from the Past!
     
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  10. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Because it is pretty unheard of across the NFL for an owner to pay for renovations out of their own pocket, and so if Ross only cared about the bottom line then he wouldn't be spending a nickel of his own money on the renovations. He'd just not do anything and keep his money.


    And back to my original question, I take it based on your reply that you have no proof to your claim that he views the Dolphins strictly as a business opportunity then?
     
  11. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    He's not. At least in the long term. He's going to make it back and then some.
     
  12. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    This was my fear right after the announcement last week
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Joe Philbin is 7-13 (.350) against playoff teams since taking over the Dolphins. That includes 1-5 in 2014, his latest result.

    Progress.
     
  14. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Now THIS is Failing Forward Fast. Cam Cameron nods approvingly.
     
  15. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thank you. I'm glad someone else out there is going to comment on this issue. People keep spouting it off as if it's fact that Ross prefers Harbaugh in Michigan over Miami. Nobody... NOBODY here knows that for a fact.

    For all we know... Ross asked Harbaugh if he had interest in the dumpster fire that is Miami, and he politely declined, and expressed an interest in college again, which is when Ross helped direct him to Michigan.

    I mean, that's just about as much fact as the notion that Ross wanted him in Michigan.

    It's ridiculous, and it needs to stop.

    There's alot to hate Ross for, but without proof, this isn't one of them. It's just more in the world of make believe in Dolphins' fans minds. Similar to that one rumour where we won the Super Bowl for the last 5 years straight.
     
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  16. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ugh... that's so depressing.

    Thanks
     
  17. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    There's no shame in losing at NE, Denver, Detroit, who are 22-2 at home this year. Falling to GB is no crime, only the Baltimorw loss stings for me and that's more about OL, CB and RB than it is the HC.
     
  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I know right. The remaining Philbin apologists point to Miami's few injuries and a "tough" schedule as the reason for such a disappointing 8-8 season. Meanwhile, Harbaugh's team was utterly DECIMATED by injury yet he still finished 8-8 despite playing an equally tough if not tougher schedule.
     
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  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes, each loss doesn't sting if you're isolating them individually as if in a vacuum, but the moment you add them together to form a bigger picture, it most certainly does sting, and there most certainly is shame in it, especially when Miami owned 4th qtr leads in 3 of those games you mentioned. The only way shame wouldn't be involved is if those teams showed Miami didn't belong, but that wasn't the case. And there's definitely shame in losing to a 3-12 NY team at home to close out a season. Philbin getting out-coached didn't just start happening during week 17.
     
  20. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What makes you think that I love Joe Philbin?

    I'm just wondering how anyone who's read my posts would come to the conclusion that's the case.


    Maybe it's the fact that I want to keep Lazor around for another year so that Tannehill can operate the same offense? But that's pretty far from loving Philbin.

    Maybe it's the fact that I looked forward and acknowledged that our chances of landing Harbaugh were dubious at best? But then again that's pretty far from loving Philbin as well.

    Maybe it's the fact that Harbaugh's selection of Kaepernick raised some questions? Then again, that's not a Dolphins-related issue either.

    Maybe it's the fact that you haven't read the multiple posts in which I've called Philbin "average" and "mediocre?"


    It's almost like you haven't bothered to read my posts at all.

    I'm tempted to say you're a reasonable guy but then you go and call me a "Philbin Stooge."

    At that point, you're just operating on bad intel and you come off looking foolish in my eyes.
     
    Piston Honda likes this.
  21. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    It is my opinion that every NFL owner over the past few decades purchased their teams first as a business investment and only a few of these owners actually have had enough ability as owners to hire the best individuals to turn their teams into successful teams on the field.

    I find it hard to believe that anyone would question if owning a football team is a business decision or not. In fact I believe the owners of all professional sports team get involved in the beginning because they see it as a great business opportunity.

    I don' t think Ross would be renovating the stadium if he thought he wouldn't make more money with an updated stadium. I just don't think owners today are altruistic. Everything they do is to improve their chances at improving their own bottom line.

    That is why there is a salary cap in the NFL. This way players make less money because they have far fewer teams who can bid on their services under the salary cap structure. Owners also demand more and more money from television networks to broadcast their games. This affects consumers directly because it increases the cost of cable and dish channels which broadcast these games.

    When owners do end up selling the team, they can expect to get a huge return on their initial investment. I don't think there would be anyone buying NFL teams today if they actually thought there was a chance they would lose money by investing in the NFL.

    I don't have a problem with the idea that Ross purchased the team as an investment. From an investors perspective I think it is a great way to ensure a great long term profit on your money.

    As as a fan though, I would hope that the investor who purchased the team I root for also has the knowledge and ability to run a successful organization. Not only from a financial aspect, but also by hiring the best individuals to put a winning team on the field.

    My problem with Ross isn't that he purchased this team to make a lot of money. I don't care how much money he has or how much money he makes as owner of the Dolphins.

    My problem is that when it comes to hiring the best individuals to turn this organization into a winner. I just don't think he knows what he is doing. Just because you can make a lot of money in real estate doesn't mean you will make a good owner of an NFL team.

    I hope he will realize in the near future that he isn't suited for the NFL and decides to sell the team. I have no doubt the next owner will also see the purchase of an NFL team as a great investment. I just hope the next owner has the ability to hire better individuals to run his football team.
     
  22. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm entirely on board with that assessment. Aside from the occasional Mark Cuban, I'm not sure ANY owner really knows what they hell they are doing.

    It's still boggles my mind that people haven't taken a few minutes of their free time to educate themselves on how well connected to and invested in Michigan our owner Stephen Ross actually is.

    He's given hundreds of millions of dollars to both Michigan and Johns Hopkins on separate occasions.

    Just Wiki the guy and then ask yourself...does this guy really care that much about the Miami Dolphins? Probably not.

    That doesn't make him evil, but I tend to agree with jw3102, it's not good for us as fans.


    Then again, I think a hell of a lot of owning a franchise is about luck. You get the chance to draft John Elway and you're a genius. You settle for Bill Belichick and reach on a crappy QB out of Michigan at #199 you're the model expert.
     
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  23. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I think this time next year a lot of Dolphin fans are going to be asking why Ross didn't offer Harbaugh as much as possible to take the head coaching job. Unfortunately I just believe that Ross doesn't want to get into a bidding war with Michigan. I guess he figured they would take his name off all the buildings named after him at the university if he outbid them for Harbaugh.

    Because we all know that football is more important at Michigan than all the other courses and activities on campus. I doubt if the combined salaries of the top 20 highest paid employees on campus even come close to the eight million dollars a year they appear willing to pay Harbaugh to be their next head coach.
     
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  24. Rilo

    Rilo New Member

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    The question is do you keep Hickey

    Yes, personally I believe they stick around because of Hickey. I think he did a good job getting us the players we needed. If Philbin goes then you get a coach who might not want Hickey as a GM. Even if a new coach wants Hickey then you have to give them a few more years to work out the kinks. That's a roll of the dice you are committing to for a few years. So in order to test Hickey you have to keep the others. If he can get you the same quality players next year then you stick with him. You let him choose his coach.

    Great teams are built on from the ground up which means they are built on the GMs as much as the coaches.
     
  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're way off base yet again. The Michigan medical school does brilliant things. Their business school, while yes, it has Ross's name on it, does well, as do many other programs. It's a top academic destination.

    Get over yourself and your own opinion. Because its... well flat out an opinion and non factual.

    You think Ross was worred they'd take his name off buildings? Come on bro... stop kidding yourself.

    You think he didn't ask Harbs if he'd coach here? You can't prove that. Again... opinion. Just as useless as mine that he probably did. Guys like him don't get as filthy rich as they are without asking if they can "buy" guys who are at the top of their profession.

    For all we all know, Ross could seriously in his heart of hearts believe that Philbin is building somehting great. Nothing would change that.

    But to think that Ross sucks, just because he... in your opinion, didnt offer Harbaugh a deal. Or didn't want to offer him a deal to risk having his name removed from a building. Maybe he secretly offered Ross a deal... which you wouldnt be privy to because... you know, if it was knowledge that he was offering Harbaugh a job while he was employed with SF the NFL would come down on us hard for tampering. Secretly he may have. MAybe Haurbaugh wants out of the NFL. The environment where teams give you basically a max of 3 years to succeed. Where you're restricted to talent on your roster by a salary cap, maybe he just simply wanted out. He can call all the shots at Michigan. He played there. He can build his own team, with as much talent as he wants and can acquire. Maybe it's just a bigger priority in his life than it is to coach in Miami.

    I know were all fans of Miami here, but... ****... that doesn't mean everyone is begging to come here, or should want to be here.
     
    Stitches likes this.
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sorry for asking. I guess I missed the joke. :confused1:

    edit:
    Never mind. I got it now.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Thanks for cheering up everyone here with this little tidbit of happy info. :cry:
     
  28. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    I needed a 3rd guy, and let's face it, if Larry wasn't Larry, I'd have never called any of you a stooge. I do try to keep it gentlemanly. It was more a play on words, than thinking you guys a crony. Although, this horrific game does take weight away from ANY positive Philbin/team momentum.

    Edit: It's not always what you say, but also your line of "fist bumping". You do come across as a Philbin supporter, which is fine, and your right.
     
  29. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Just want to say, I tried to fist bump a lot of these posts on Tapatalk, but it didn't work for some reason. Weird.
     
  30. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Peter Principle , again .

    But instead of realizing it a year late , we continue to show faith that the results , the patterns are not accurate. Back to the definition of insanity , if he isn't the right answer why are we continuing with the wrong answer?

    I have no clue , just pretty damn sure that this time next year we'll not be a playoff team yet again . That's with my faith in 17 , just too many things wrong and not winning clutch games in December is a big part of it.
     
  31. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    It could only be "insanity" next season if we fielded the same team, against the same opponents, under the same conditions as this season. If anything changes (which we know it will), then it isn't the definition of insanity.
     
  32. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Yeah. Got to go to web view to do it.

    Sucks.
     
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  33. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    is it too late for MR ROSS to change his mind . I heard Harbaugh might not take the Michigan job according to one guy in the media , I forgot his name but he thinks it isn't a done deal.
     
  34. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It really shouldn't have to do anything with Harbaugh at this point, you need to get Philbin the **** out of there.
     
  35. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    So what if we hold a 4th quarter lead vs QBs like Manning, Rodgers, Stafford? If we can't run the clock bc we don't have a grinder in the backfield, our pass pro is suspect, and our secondary/LB units are decimated by injury then what exactly are we supposed to do?

    You want to judge Philbin from up on the mountain top but you don't want to get down in the weeds and equate the problems our staff is facing va the resources they have to deal with them.
     
  36. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This made me laugh. Thanks.

    I'm a little dumbfounded that this statistic means he was 6-8 prior to this year. I wouldn't have guessed that.
     
  37. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately that's all any of us have.

    These days, anyone who allows himself to get emotionally bent on this team is either a glutton for punishment, with no one to blame but him or herself for the resulting frustration, or new to this particular team's fandom.

    Admittedly, I was building some degree of belief in the team's potential this year, or rather before it got tripped up, and lost its left tackle, followed by additional injuries to other key contributers who together, had formed much of

    what had been the team's 3rd quarter backbone and productive resilience. Common sensibilities should have alarmed everyone to re-evaluate perception, be wary of diminishing success, and prepared for the likelihood of impending

    disappointment.

    Some coaches excel by inspiring lesser players to step up when this happens. I believe its one of the key roles a head coach can fulfill, but one that Philbin has unfortunately been content deferring to his respective positional

    coaches.

    In contrast, I believe Rex Ryan takes a more innate, hands on approach, and wish Ross would have waited a week, and utilized this final game to determine for him who would ultimately be his coach.

    Ross may simply be defaulting with Philbin, now aware that he can dictate his wishes (as realized with Sherman's dismissal) and that Philbin will likely appease him to keep his job. (This opens a can of worms for another thread.)

    The catch here, is that Ryan doesn't strike me as one who would necessarily be unwilling to retain Lazor, and boot kick Coyle, so I believe Ross made a mistake in not pursuing a humbled Rex Ryan, merely to default with a

    submissive and arguably inferior Joe Philbin.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He was 2-5 in 2012, 4-3 in 2013 and 1-5 in 2014.

    The shame about that is you could try and take pride in how they showed themselves capable of beating playoff teams in 2013, but that was the year they came to that awful finish against the Bills and Jets when just ONE win against those subpar opponents would have gotten them into the playoffs. So whatever character you think they may have shown by beating playoff teams that year, easily wiped out by being completely unable to manifest talent at the most important time of the year in very winnable situations.
     
  39. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    They regressed this season. Sure, Miller and Tannehill posted better numbers, but what does it matter when they finished 8-8, 3rd place, again? And they beat fewer playoff teams, with supposedly more talent.

    The only sound argument is if you enjoy pain, you're in luck for the 2015 season!
     
  40. jeremy2020

    jeremy2020 Active Member

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    They sure had his back today after the vote of confidence from the owner. the players gave him their own vote.
     

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