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Salguero: Dolphins loss reveals disturbing outlook

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That seems to make sense, but remember that Philbin was the third or fourth candidate they approached. When no one else who would command a high price wanted to work for him, he settled for Philbin, a bargain basement coach. He would have paid much more if any big name had wanted to come here.

    He indulges his emotions because he likes Philbin, and despite Philbin being unable to do the job, Ross keeps him because he likes him.
     
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  2. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    This is starting to become a lot more clear to people, I think.

    Stephen Ross isn't a Dolphins fan. They're a toy to him. An investment property, if you will. Sure, he'll try to spruce it up but ultimately just having it is all he cares about.

    If he were an actual fan, someone who genuinely cared about wins and losses, he'd have fired Philbin by now and not let Ireland fester. Both (non) moves helped in getting us where we are today.
     
  3. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I believe Harbaugh told Ross before the Min game he would not ever accept the Phins coaching job, so Ross decided to announce keeping philbum.
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    He keeps him because replacing him will cost ~$10M.
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't necessarily agree. There is a he'll of a lot more to it than just wins and losses. He took over a team with one of the worst stadiums in the league, which was underwater on its stadium. The Dolphins had serious debt problems. Ross has done and invested a lot to fix those issues.
     
  6. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Yes, he's spruced up his investment property. He's basically committed himself to fixing all the things, except, you know, winning.
     
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  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    "Spruced up" is an awfully curious word to use. He's basically stopped the financial bleeding of the organization. Just look at the situation he took over. Between the interest on the debt and Parcells, that is $20M/yr down the toilet.
     
  8. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Ross should be on the DIY show with his renovation of the stadium. He will not be there for his coaching picks.
     
  9. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    After he failed at securing tax payer money.

    Either way, none of this contradicts my original point which is he cares more about the business side than wins and losses.

    And you know what? That's his right. He's earned that. But it doesn't change the fact that it's harmed this franchise on the field.
     
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  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The franchise on the field is in the same condition it was when he took over, except that it costs a lot less.

    I'm not sure what the tax subsidies have to do with the debt, which was all Huizengas doing.
     
  11. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sometimes I think the energy of Dolphins fans is set to 2-14 levels no matter what. If you want something be hopeful for consider that the team has been 8-8 for two seasons and made obvious improvements to the offense this year. The offense is definitely ascending. If not for a complete defensive collapse--which I don't think anyone here can fully explain--we'd be in the Play-offs right now. While 8-8 isn't a great thing, it does mean that just a little improvement (maybe 2 games worth) will put you in the Play-offs.

    What's discouraging to me is that so many fans want to paint us as a team that is so far away. I don't really see it that way. I don't see nearly as many "elite" teams on our schedule next year. I see our QB getting to remain in the same offense. I see us getting Lamar Miller back as well, a guy who managed to overcome a horrible offensive line.

    Yes, I'm disappointed about this year, but I think that if we can figure out how to straighten out the defense, we'll be in the Play-offs next year.
     
  12. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    We've been 2 games worth of improvement away since 2005. That's 10 years.

    Point being: Going from a consistent 7-9 or 8-8 to 10-6 is a lot harder than you're making it out to be. And there's mounting evidence that Joe Philbin is not the guy to get us to that point.
     
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  14. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    This is clearly worse than last year for all the reasons given. And, imo, 8-8 might as well be 2-14 because the odds of this team winning a SB with this coaching staff / talent is nil.

    This team is NOT headed in the right direction. The D dropped off and the best player on the D (Wake) will be a year older and very unlikely to be better next year.

    There is a continual cycle of getting 2-3 good players in one area as 2-3 other players leave or drop off. The talent accumulation is really bad as is the coaching staff.

    When your QB is sacked 7 times in the final game, and the other team's QB, arguably one of the worst QBs in the NFL, looks like an all-pro, there is something wrong with both the talent and the coaching staff.

    Ross was incredibly premature in his announcement about Philbin - though I do agree he probably talked with Harbaugh's agent and got the vibe that Harbaugh was in for Michigan but not in for Miami (though Ross may have been more interested in Harbaugh going to Michigan - given his long-term ties there).

    This team is super fragile if one or two starters go down. It has very little depth of talent. I don't see Hickey as anything special in talent accumulation but we'll see.

    The team is ultimately at least 2 seasons away from contending for real for a deep playoff run - and that would be if they hired a quality HC in the off-season.

    But, we'll likely get to watch Rex Ryan go to Atlanta, revitalized their D, keep a good OC and the Falcons will be in the playoffs next year. We'll be looking at who the next HC will be by week 10 of next year.
     
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  15. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    This year is far worse because this was suppose to be the most talented team of the past six years.

    It it is worse because instead of building for the future, this team is now in rebuilding mode on the defensive side of the ball.

    What makes it the worst season under Philbin is that the team went 1-3 in December, when good teams play their best football in an effort to make the playoffs.

    By far the worst part of this season occurred after the win over the Vikings. That was when Ross announced that Philbin would return in 2015 as the head coach. Making sure that this team will remain no more than mediocre for at least one more season. I noticed Ross was MIA after the game yesterday.

    I'll take the 2013 season over this past season. At least after the 2013 season, there was hope that the addition of a few players might be enough to get this team into the playoffs in 2014.

    Now after this season, the defense needs a complete rebuild and the OL still needs big upgrades at the guard positions and a hope that Albert is able to return next year and play at a similar level he did before his leg injury.

    Other than the progression of Tannehill this season, and the play of James, Jenkins, Miller, and Landry , I just don't see much evidence that this overall team today is any better than it was when Philbin was hired to be the head coach of this team in 2012.
     
  16. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I look to see Coyle take most of, if not all the blame. We have basically the same crap as last year. We will get the 3rd or 4th pick of a DC because no one is going to want to come here because Philbin and Co. are on the fence. It is no secret. And then where are we?

    Based I what I have witnessed I am not surprised Ross doesn't get it.
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I certainly don't feel bad for a billionaire who knew exact what he was getting into financially when he purchased this team.

    Also after seeing what the Bills sold for earlier this year, Ross could sell the team today and still makes hundreds of millions of dollars by selling the team.To you and me, twenty million dollars might be a great deal of money. But to Ross, a man who donated well over a hundred million dollars to Michigan, it is merely a drop in the bucket.

    I find it hard to believe that any NFL franchise is in a position where it is bleeding money. In fact the only individuals who have been bleeding money with this organization are all the fans who have purchased tickets during the time Ross has been the owner of this team. They have spent their hard earned money and been rewarded year after year with a mediocre product on the field.

    It is those fans you should be feeling sorry for. Not an owner who is worth far more today than he was when he purchased the team six years ago.
     
  18. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I don't see any top DC wanting to come to Miami and coach a team with a lame duck head coach. Even if Coyle is fired, he will probably be replaced by someone who has never been a DC in the NFL before, or a bottom tier DC no other team in interested in hiring.

    For those who think hiring Rex Ryan to be the DC would be a great idea. Ryan has already stated he has no interest in being a DC again. He made it clear he will head to television unless he is offered another head coaching opportunity.

    To me, he would be a great fit as the next Bears next head coach. I just wish Ross was smart enough to fire Philbin and hire Ryan, but in regards to Football intelligence, Ross is a complete moron.
     
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  19. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think the problem is that our beat writers are as bad as this team is right now...that said, Mando made some sense. I don't agree with him on his 'doom and gloom' prediction for the future of the fins, but he's right...this franchise hasn't gotten it right in a long time...
     
  20. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    As to the people talking about how great ross's financial improvements have been - I say you are right but who cares?

    Those saying he cares more about the money than the on-field product, you are right. That's why he moved a division rival home game to London! So he could get the Superbowl to line his pockets and he sacrificed the game based on a quantitative money analysis.

    This is the problem with the new "investor class" of today folks. They don't care about their employees, costumers, or product, they just see how much more money they can earn every year by cutting and saving. No push forward, no desire for personal pride.

    What this billionaire, dumbo eared, waste of money is doing to the dolphins is a microcosm of our current societal state, and the NFL, with its corporate stooges and that liar Goodell are the same too. Get used to this.

    Ross cares nothing about you, or me, or the players. Well - discontinue your season tickets and stop buying gear - the logo may be a source of pride for you or history, but right Noe it is nothing but a cold, empty corporate seal, that represents a business venture by Stephen Ross, slimey New York real estate baron. Every time you buy dolphins merchandize, you line his pockets, and give him more of a war chest to desecrate the earth in other ways.

    Think about it.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Anyone who wants to keep the team where it is. The next owner will certainly care as well. I'm sure potential coaches/executives care if the organization they're going to work for is financially healthy.

    How does the SB line Ross' pockets? The revenue from the SB isn't going to him. Its split amongst all the owners.

    It is ridiculous to suggest that Stephen Ross doesn't care about his employees, customers, or product. What exactly is that based on? Simply because he chooses not to burn money turning over coaching staffs every 3 years, and instead every 4 years?

    You raise a lot of valid points about the state of the NFL, but suggesting that Ross is trying to milk every cent out of this is pretty hyperbolic. He has invested a lot of his own money into the organization. He shouldn't be obligated to lose whatever amount makes fans happy.
     
  22. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Two cowards who only feel safe around one another. Lol.

    Like bullied nerds clustered in the corner of a lunchroom avoiding eye contact.


    My two cents via iPhone.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes, this is true and I generally agree with this sentiment, but on the flip side, getting us over the hump from 8-8 to 10-6 will involve sound consistent decision making, and I don't trust anyone from the top on down to be capable of such.

    At this point, I'd feel more comfortable letting Lazor take over HC and give him a year to see what he can do with the team. If it works out, then we just found ourselves a head coach and simultaneously prevented Lazor's future departure for a head coaching gig elsewhere, and if it doesn't work out, it couldn't be any worse than Philbin. Basically, it's the 3rd quarter of a blowout that we have little chance of winning, so rather than continuing to play a crappy starter who contributed to the blowout to begin with, we give the young guy a chance to show what he's capable of.
     
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  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    WTF said I feel sorry for anyone? You don't seem to understand what is being discussed here.
     
  25. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I see the logic. For the sake of making sure we retain Lazor it's a scenario I wouldn't be against. I don't think Lazor has done close to enough to warrant the title of HC but yeah...the present example being what it is, lol.

    The funny thing is that I agrued for Philbin on the basis that we need to keep Lazor around for Tannehill's sake. When asked, 'why don't you just promote Lazor?' I had to think about it because I hadn't really considered it.

    I think it's a real questionable decision that in our case may actually be an improvement. I don't necessarily think Lazor would be out of his depth. I guess I'd be all for it.
     
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  26. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I honestly believe Ross was so despondent over the whole Fat One situation.. A guy he didn't hire, couldn't fire and had to pay to boot...He was pissed because the Fat One spent one year with an office in Davie just taking up space and not involved in the running of the organization and then took off the next year and Ross was forced to pay him. FF to the Sparano/Harbaugh situation...again, he courts Harbaugh with Sparano still on the payroll, then wanted Harbaugh to keep Sparano on in some capacity. Then move on to the Ireland situation...he doesn't want to 'fire' him, just take his personnel power away from him (making him, in affect, director to player personnel) and leave him on the payroll ??

    It is relevant to accuse him of putting the dollars (however little they are to him) before the betterment of the organization...
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    and the biggest thing to add to this spot-on post: This team won't win a damn thing under a HC who increasingly makes the light in this team's eye fade. It requires considerable mental effort to turn up your play a notch in the 4th quarter of a tight game or late in the tiring season when nothing is on the line. It's not something the mind and body WANTS to do. It's something you consciously have to force it to. You see Rex's and Harbaugh's players yesterday? They want their head coaches approval. They respect their coach immensely and don't want to let him down b/c they know wins and losses affect his job status, his happiness, his sadness, his stress level, etc, and they know how hard he works to make them the best they can be, and they know how much he cares about them and how passionate he gets about them. There's pride involved, pride in making their beloved coach look good. The only time this team seems excited and euphoric is when they get up by 13+ points and have no need to fight for a win

    Getting back to the aforementioned 4th quarter and the end of the season, at this late stage the players collectively just need a little motivational push to get them out of complacency and exhaustion and into that determined "I think I can" mode, something Philbin clearly doesn't offer. The team doesn't respect him, nor do they play for him, and understandably so. How many players felt badly about losing to NY, badly as in- letting down Philbin & Coyle and putting a checkmark in their loss column? -probably very few, if that. Thanks to Philbin & Coyle, these Miami players play for themselves for the most part, which is why they cave late in games when they need to hunker down and step it up a notch. For example, nobody looks at Courtland Finnegan in terms of wins and losses; they look at him based on overall production. He could rank highly on PFF's final grade and few if any GMs would pay much attention to him mentally s***ting the bed at the end of the Green Bay game. Most GMs won't judge our defensive players on Miami's terrible, 4th quarter win-loss record in tight games. They'll judge them individually on their cumulative, year long performance. So, if they have no intrinsic motivation [such as a love or respect for their coach] or externally provided motivation [such as their coach directly pumping them up or tapping into their soul] pushing them to a higher level, they why would they exert that much effort when the loss falls more on the coach than themselves. Granted, most of them will still gonna hate losing, but they'll blame the coach for not getting the best out of them, and in time they'll grow to despise their coach for such ineptness, which seems to have already happened under Philbin & Coyle which is why players lash out at them and whatnot.
     
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  28. speed

    speed Banned

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    Why? he is 100% right.

    We have our franchise QB, there is no doubt. Last year we didn't know that.

    Fix the line, fix the defense and win the division next year.
     
  29. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    fixed that for ya
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yeah I mean, at this stage, what harm could it do? Lazor could quickly gain the support and respect of the team by gathering them together and essentially dogging Philbin out, mentioning how he disagreed with how Joe handled affairs, treated the team and players individually, seemed emotionally disattached from the team, lacked a backbone on Sundays, and how he projected apprehension and a lack of confidence in & support of his players, and Lazor uses the experience to quickly generate a bond between them, as if the new head coach and the players are suddenly sitting on the same side of the table together, perhaps with a picture of Philbin on the other side and everyone is handed a dart. This team just needs the light in their eyes to come back on. They need to remember what it's like to enjoy playing the game and to have a coach they'll take pride in actually playing hard for. Basically, Philbin has spiraled this team into depression and it now needs a prescription for Wellbutrin or a few, good ole lines of cocaine and a good time. Football might be a game, but our owner idiotically forgets that it's played on emotion and will power, something that will always be lacking with Philbum in charge of this team.
     
  31. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Uh huh. Last year, we fired our OC because our offense died down the stretch. This year we might fire our DC because our defense collapsed down the stretch. What is the common denominator?
     

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