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I'm out on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Dec 28, 2014.

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  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Brady had a worse QB rating when under pressure this year than Tannehill did. So did Wilson for that matter.
     
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  2. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    this is what makes it so disappointing, a well respected poster who always preaches to keep things in context....blasting the only bright spot on this roster, a guy who now has been sacked 104 times the last 2 seasons, showed what a tough SOB he is, took all of them, got up played the next play and even improves each year and posts a 4k , 27 TD , 12 INT in 2014, yet the defense allows 28 points in 6 out of the last 7 games, but our QB is the problem
     
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  3. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Jesus dude you are so fixated on having a running QB. I get the feeling you'd be fine with loosing as long as the QB runs for 50 plus yards a game. He's not going to run enough for you DJ, it won't happen so not sure what your gonna do. Accept him for the QB he is or root for Russell Wilson I dunno..
     
  4. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    We run a progression based offense. Unless it's a called spread option, he needs to stay in the pocket to allow his progressions to happen. The way the pocket was collapsing yesterday, he would have had to bail out before even his first read was open. Thats the whole point of a QB standing tall in the pocket making the throw even though you know your gonna get hit. We dont run the same offense as Seattle. Quit trying to make RT, RW.
     
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  5. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To a degree I would say I agree with you. But where we really differ is Ryan is learningto play the position he didn't come in with 3 to 4 years exp dealing w pressure and so to me I see a qb thinking rather than reacting instinctively not wanting to give up on play, to the point he can't escape.

    My issue where we disagree is this line is so bad, the point where tanny needs to escape or its too late is so quick many times its a quick 1st option then go situation. So Ryan who is drilled with look to your second option and is thinking still, hesitates long enough that its too late.

    If I explain myself well enough, hate typing on my phone
     
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  6. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a huge Tannehill fan but he's the best option we can get atm. I don't feel like he can make all the throws on a consistent basis. He has some throws that wow you then the next play he'll miss a wr by 5 yards. Also feel like his pocket awareness is horrible and unfixable. This makes the mediocre o-line look a lot worse. I will say the Wrs on this team are trash and we've needed upgrades the last 3 years. Our 100 million dollar wr has a 1 foot catch radius.
     
  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Lie down DJ, you're drunk.

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4
     
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  8. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Yeh.. He probably was, we need to tell him no thread starting till after you sleep it off
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Uh, no. Tannehill doesn't need an extraordinary line around him. Tannehill simply needs an average line. No reasonable person can look at what Tannehill has had for olines and say that he has even had average play from that group. I think Tannehill would be fine even with simply one terrible player on his line, like DT. However, Tannehill has constantly dealt with pressure coming from every direction, from 3-4 man rushes. WTF do you want from him? Lightning quick pressure from all directions in 3 seconds or less, with 7-8 guys in coverage. No QB is very successful in that situation
     
  10. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    DJ, you seem to be a very knowledgable and passionate fan. For the most part, I enjoy your perspective and you contribute a lot to these forums.

    Having said that, have you not seen improvement in RTH's game since last year?

    I think we all can agree that he needs to get better. Every player does. The way I see it is he is a 3rd year QB who made substantial strides from last year. Looking at Tony Romo's stats, in ONE season his rating improved 17 points by substantially improved play by his OL. If we could replicate that here, RTH would be close to 110 passer rating.

    I agree that he does need to improve his pocket awareness and mobility. I'd also like to see him improve his down field accuracy. At the same time, this OL is horrendous. We are really lucky he didn't get injured this year. Once Albert went down, this OL was ever bit as bad as last years.

    According to PFF, no OL ranked in the top 30 at their respective position. You don't even need to see their analytics to see that he was pressured, hit, hurried and sacked an awful lot down the stretch.

    To me, that is the bigger problem with these Miami Dolphins. We were very weak at the point of attack on both sides of the line.
     
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  11. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Tanny had a very good year, to look at yesterday and blame him when he was hit, harassed and hammered on almost every play is just silly. He couldn't even move up in the pocket without getting smacked.

    The offensive line was horrible, including Pouncey who was awful all year since back.

    I hate to say it, but with the number one pick, its Oline.
     
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  12. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    QB? Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. Least of my concerns.

    OL and defence? No way.
     
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  13. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    You can't run away from sacks when the pocket basically collapses on top of you.
     
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  14. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    How can we verify that the Dolphins' line has been worse than average during Tannehill's tenure?
     
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  15. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Sack numbers. Hits. Pressures. Pancake (lack there of).
     
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  16. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    It's like a bear trap right from the snap. Like some sort of twisted Houdini act from which there is no escape.
     
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  17. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill ran for more yards than all but 4 qbs. 62nd most yards rushing of any player. Any player. The fixation on him running is illogical.
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sack numbers, hits, hurries. Although, those numbers probably wouldn't even tell the whole story, as one guy getting through and hitting the QB gives basically the same stat as four guys coming through and one of then hitting the QB.
     
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  19. Dolfan330

    Dolfan330 My wein is so chaffed...

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    And that's what he's been doing all year. Did you miss the drive in which he was hit 4 times in a row? Twice there should have been penalties called and he still delivered very accurate throws. Then he completes a perfect pass for a TD. What more do you guys want from him? It's impossible for any QB to do that all game long.
     
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  20. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    if you believe tannehill is the problem, you dont understand football
     
  21. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Tannehill, imo, is a great qb. Not good or average, but great. We came into this season thinking if tannehill does okay, this defense will take us to the playoffs. Well tannehills was great and this defense got ripped up by flacco, Bridgwater, and geno smith.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not ready to call him great yet. He's good. Can be great.
     
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  23. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Absolutely. If he's anything, he's unflappable. Dude gets beaten to death out there and bounces back every time.

    as far as other aspects of the TEAM .. not so much

    The mystique around QBs being this absolute measure of what the team can accomplish just doesn't pass the sniff test with me. You give guys marginal players and protection around them, and you've seen all time greats look very pedestrian (Brady earlier this year, Brees in several games). It is by far the most important position, but we can't act like it's the only position. If we're going to hold him under such a microscope, then we need to do it for every single other player putting on the pads that help ensure the success of the QB, and if you ask me those around him fail him more often than not
     
  24. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Almost my thoughts ..word for word. I have no problem with RT on the road in a big spot. Not that I think it is a given that he will dominate, just that he can perform and the moment will not overwhelm him...can't say the same for many of his teammates.
     
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  25. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    If you can't throw an accurate deep ball, you can't be great. I do like RT and don't see that fans should be down on him. But, he also needs to be more consistently accurate even in the short passing game. Given that he's inaccurate on bombs, he needs to be Aaron Rogers accurate on the short to mid-range passes and he isn't.

    So, RT is a pretty good QB. I'd put him in the top 15 in the NFL.

    But, if he can continue to grow in his knowledge of the game, decision-making, and become accurate on deep passes, he can move into the top 10. I think there is still real potential for Ryan with the right coaching and hard work. But, the jury is still clearly out as to whether he is a "great" QB.
     
  26. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    DJ, you are better than this knee jerk reaction judgement on RT. It's ok to be critical on his play, but to be "OUT" on him after he's improved in all 3 years after one not so great game is not the right judgement IMHO.
     
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  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Hey, like it or not. He's our guy. They sure as hell 'aint drafting a QB and there are no stellar vets available, so you have to hope.
     
  28. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Tannehill is actually more accurate than Rodgers on everything thrown fewer than 20 yards in the air. Tannehill's completion percentage on those throws is 70.7%, whereas Rodgers's is 66.7%.
     
  29. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    He also improved a great deal in taking care of the football. 2 multiple turnover games this year as opposed to 6 last season. No more than 2 consecutive games this season with an INT, where last season he had a 5 game streak where he threw an INT. 14 total turnovers in 2014 compared to 22 in 2013, while improving his total TDs from 25 to 28.

    8 fewer turnovers, 3 more TDs in an equal amount of attempts. That's growth I can live with.
     
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  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I posted this in another thread but much of it applies here. I haven't read through this thread so I apologize if any of this is repetitive (I guess it's probably all repetitive at this point anyways, LOL).

    Tannehill has consistently improved and is arguably the strongest reason for any hope going forward. He played at a top 10 level after a very short offense adjustment period and when he had decent protection (he never had "good" pass pro) he played at a top 5 level. Is he Peyton, Brees, Brady or Rodgers? No, of course not, but those guys weren't the players they are now in their third season either. And Tannehill came in with less experience than most of those guys so it was known going in that he would probably take a couple of seasons longer to reach comparable experience levels. Peyton was at about RT's level in year three despite having far better weapons. And Rodgers was still on the bench and reportedly looked so mechanical in practice that they drafted another QB to cover their bases. In his third season Brees had a QB rating below 70 and was throwing more INTs than TDs. Brady was still carrying that "caretaker" label in year three. His QB rating was in the mid 80s and his YPA was about 6.3. (Brady, who had similar experience levels coming in, really didn't blossom until year 5). Despite playing behind some of the worst lines in the league and arguably the worst 3 years of OL play in team history, Tannehill's stats compare very favorably to the progression of the best QBs in the league and some of the best QBs in NFL history. So anybody complaining about Tannehill at this point really is being absurd.
     
  31. CRAZYFACE

    CRAZYFACE Active Member

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    I don't need to read the thread, this sums it up nicely. But on the bright side, you only get to watch the muppets 8 times a season, only 7 next. So that's something to brighten up your thoughts during the off season.
    Oh, and another thing, my local soccer team, are currently third in their division, with no money to the effect of not being able to fill the substitutes bench with the five players allowed. ( We could only field three at our last game, injuries etc) Now that's coaching on the appropriate level. You are allowed one season to sort things out and the second to push on. Miami haven't done this. Philbin please fall on your sword.
     
  32. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Maybe allowing himself to get touched is evidence the golden boy is having a bad day? Maybe getting touched is proof he's having a bad day and not the reason for him having a bad day?

    Football outsiders pass protection rankings for the Patriots:
    2014: 2nd
    2013: 9th
    2012: 5th
    2011: 8th
    2010: 6th
    2009: 2nd
    2008: 26th
    2007: 4th
    2006: 8th
    2005: 6th
    2004: 5th

    So 1 season out of 11 their o-line wasn't ranked in the top 10, do you think its coincidence that the one year Brady didn't play their o-line play fell off the map?

    You could do the same exercise with Peyton Manning teams and get similar results.

    Matt Flynn came in and attempted 2 passes yesterday and was sacked on one. Rodgers never got sacked all day. Coincidence?

    We can go round and round on who's at fault for sacks until the end of time. And maybe it is coincidence that Tannehill is not the problem despite completely changing the entire o-line, offensive scheme and offensive coordinator, but at some point you have to give in to the possibility that the QB is a huge part of pass protection and maybe, just maybe our QB is not avoiding some of the sacks that some of the better QBs could for whatever reason.

    People tried to say Dallas Thomas was the reason our offense became inept, to which I asked if thats true how did we score so much at Denver? Their reply was Thomas still sucked but the QB went above and beyond bailing him out. You see? It totally depends on your perspective, you could look at the Denver game as the QB doing something extraordinary or you could look at it as proof that he is capable of making things happen despite not having the greatest o-line in the league.
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Do you think it's coincidence that whenever we play the Patriots, everyone says the way to beat them is to hit Brady, and get pressure on him? Like, that's basic football. Getting pressure on the QB is the way you beat the good ones. Not sure why you think that a bad oline gets turned into a great one based on who's taking the snap. Garbage players are garbage players.
     
  34. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]
     
  35. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you watch the replay, the main reason for the highway Miller had to run through was because Calvin Pace had to contain the edge because of the fear Tannehill would run. After that, it was a poor angle by the safety that had just replaced Pryor who limped off the field and boom, you have a 97 yd TD.

    So, while you may want to say Tannehill didn't have a hand in that, I would disagree. The fear of him taking off created that space, which is what Lazor's offense intended to do.

    Ryan Tannehill doesn't always have to run to create lanes/opportunities for others. And honestly, I would rather have Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas taking their lumps while gaining 4-5 ypc over Ryan Tannehill.

    But in your previous posts, I agree with you. Stats are awesome, but there are small plays at critical times that win games. And the fact Ryan Tannehill hasn't lead his team to the playoffs in 3 years is worrisome. That isn't a common trend for franchise QBs. Of course, if he plays the role long enough, things will go his way. However, guys who QB teams that consistently reach the playoffs typically don't have that kind of start.

    Being in Chicago, they had/have a QB that has been given every excuse in the book from his Denver days (Jay Cutler). Poor O-Line, too many OC's/systems, no playmakers, etc etc. Yet he has all the "tools" and "stats", yet he's been to the playoffs once and during that time, he's more remembered for not exerting his toughness in the NFC Championship game more than anything else.
     
  36. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    The only thing I would add is all those guys could connect on a long ball before they were great.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    We'd be in the playoffs if the defense had simply done their job, regardless of the offense, in games where they were handed a lead in the fourth quarter to protect. I get what people are saying about Tannehill, I really do, but sometimes you need other parts of the team to do their part to support your third year quarterback. Like I've said, if the defense had done their job, we'd be in the playoffs, and everyone would be hugging Tannehill's nuts after the season he's had.
     
  38. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I think this is a very fair assessment of Tannehill.

    He's had some deviations to this, a few games in the middle of the season, as well as his rookie year. However, for the most part, this has been the case.

    And I don't think DJ necessarily means run all the time, it can be as simple as moving up in the pocket, which Tom Brady who is a statue in his own right, does better than anyone else in the NFL IMO.
     
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  39. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Brady? He was known for quite a while as a QB who couldn't hit deep passes...
     
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  40. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From my count, he did 3 times. And he tried a few other times, but started too late and was sacked (which could go back to that whole processing info quickly, knowing where blitzers are coming from, feel from the game, etc you speak about).

    Personally, I would rather him learn to "manipulate the pocket" as you say and rather than him going to his first instinct and just rolling out right or left, actually step up within the pocket. I think if he learned to do that, he would see the field much clearer and be much more willing to run or have the opportunity for bigger plays down the field from broken plays.

    But yes, just not a ton of creativity or ingenuinity there. So many big plays come from that - Rodgers, Romo, Roethlisberger, Flacco, even a guy like Brees. Heck, even Andy Dalton does it more frequently.

    Also, say what you want about Matt Ryan, but you talk about operating behind a piss poor OL. My buddy is a Falcons fan, so we watch our games together at the bar. Sack totals be damned, no one gets hit more has more pressure to deal with than that guy over the last 3 years. My gosh. It's amazing he's still alive.
     
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