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A Sound, Well Constructed Argument Why It Is Good That Philbin Is Retained

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sethdaddy8, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Cincy is in the playoffs. They won games this year with a LB unit decimated by injury, a secondary beat up all year, and prior to the emergence of their grinder in the backfield.

    The Niners finished 8-8 and with the 11th ranked defense despite their defense losing to injury or suspension:

    ROLB1 Aldon Smith- out first 9 games
    ROLB2 Dan Skutta- 2 games
    LOLB1 Ahmad Brooks- 3 games
    ILB1 Pat Willis- 10 games
    ILB1 Navarro Bowman- 16 games
    ILB2 Chris Borland- final 2 games
    NT1 Ian Williams- 7 games
    NT/DE Glenn Dorsey [#1 rotation guy]- 15 games
    RDE1 Justin Smith- final game from a back injury that he played through 4 games
    LDE1 Ray McDonald- 2 games
    CB1 Tramaine Brock- 13 games
    CB2 Chris Culliver- 3 games and banged up all season with ankle, shoulder, and knee issues
    CB3 Chris Cook- 10 games
    CB4 Perish Cox- 1 game
    Nickel1/SS Jimmy Ward [1st rounder]- 8 games
    FS1 Eric Reid- final game
    SS1 Antoine Bethea- 1 game

    Offensively, Kaepernick was sacked 4 times less than Tannehill, but he's also better at evading pressure. Jon Martin started 9 games at RT just so you know.

    San Fran's O-line was without:
    RT1 Anthony Davis- 9 games
    RG1 Alex Boone- first and last game
    C1 Daniel Kilgore- 9 games
    LG1 Mike Iupati- 1 game
    C2 Marcus Martin [2nd center drafted]- 9 games
    G Brandon Thomas [one of draft's highest rated guards]- 16 games

    Running back:
    RB1 Frank Gore- showing his 31 years of age
    RB2 Carlos Hyde- 2 games
    RB3 Kendall Hunter- 16 games
    RB4 LaMichael James- cut
    RB5 Marcus Lattimore- retired

    Tight End:
    TE1 Vernon Davis- 3 games
    TE2 Vance McDonald- 8 games
    TE3 Derek Carrier- 5 games
    TE4 Garrett Celek- 13 games

    Receiver:
    WR1 Crabtree- shell of former self after achilles, plus dealing with knee injury that would have him on the bench if not for so many other offensive injuries
    WR3 Stevie Johnson- 4 games
    WR4 Brandon Lloyd- 3 games and banged up heavily an additional 3
    WR5 Bruce Ellington- 4 games

    All total, Harbaugh's players missed a whopping 314 games, and by week 17, 29 players were either on IR or out with injury including 8 defensive starters, the starting nickel corner, and the #2 ILB, #3 CB, #4 CB, and #2 NT/DE who should've all been starting due to injury but couldn't because they were injured themselves..... and offensively it included 2 starters, starting slot WR, the #2 C who should've been starting but couldn't b/c he was also injured, the #2 ,#3, and #4 RB, the #2 TE, a receiving corps held together by scotch tape that wouldn't have been starting if there were healthy capable bodies behind them, and a banged up RT not playing like his All Pro self b/c of it...... yet Harbaugh's team showed up and beat the 11-4 Cardinals.

    Joe Philbin's injury list was a walk in the park compared to Harbaugh's, yet he lost at home to the damn 3-12 Jets who had their own injuries and such to worry about, just as the Packers, Broncos, and Lions did when they played us.
     
  2. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Except Ross has already proven he won't do that, as he's had the chance to clean house and refused to that once before. The man is clueless.
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Thats nice and all but other teams around the NFL dont care about Michigan. Atlanta, NY and Chicago have all lrt go of both gm's and coach and I wont be shocked if the Giants do the same and they all will offer Harbaugh full control and max money.

    Its business, if you want Harbaugh go get him.
     
  4. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    And just as I posted that Harbaugh has been announced the new head coach of Michigan.
     
  5. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Can't blame injuries. Look what Geno Smith did without Percy Harvin and their pro bowl center. And that is Geno Smith...with the only perfect game of the NFL Season. On the road. Coming in with 3 wins.
     
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  6. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    My only sound argument I can think of is it saves them from another embarrassing search where all the top candidates turn then down.
     
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  7. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I really hope your 314 games doesn't count a guy that was cut (James), a guy who was drafted and expected to miss the entire year at the time he was drafted (G- Thomas), and another who retired and never played a down in the NFL (Lattimore).

    I doubt you're throwing 32 missed games at Lynch and Gillislee (or including Turner who battled turf toe all year), so it looks like you're being quite intellectually dishonest in the way you're framing your comparison.
     
  8. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I never stated that what I write on this forum isn't my opinion. Of course it is my opinion, just as what everyone else writes on here is their opinion. That what forums like this are for, to express your opinion. Obviously you don't realize this.

    As far as the University of Michigan is concerned. I never stated that it wasn't a great learning institution. I merely stated that they seem to value football over anything else. If you can show me where they are paying any of their professors more than the reported 8 million a year they have offered Harbuagh , I will gladly rescind my statement.

    As far as Ross sucking is concerned. As a real estate magnate, he is a genius. As an NFL owner, he is clueless. That is my opinion and has been by opinion of him for the past two years years.

    Personally I would understand why Harbaugh would have no interest in working for Ross. I honestly don't see why any quality coach or GM would want to work for him, since he obviously has no idea how to structure a front office which leads to a successful team on the field.

    There has been one constant over the past six years in which this team has failed to have a winning season. That constant had been Ross. I don't think it should surprise anyone that when you have such an inept owner, it will translate down to the front office, coaching staff, and the players.

    Again it is my opinion, but I feel the real problem with this organization is ownership and the sooner Ross sells this team, the better off this organization will be.
     
  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Ross obviously only cares how this team plays against the lower tier and other mediocre teams in the NFL. He accepts that this team can't win against the playoff teams in the NFL.

    To Ross, it is all about continuity. He constantly remains satisfied with putting a mediocre product on the field and that has become apparent over the six years he has been the majority owner of this team.

    Philbin should not be a head coach in the NFL. That is obvious to almost everyone who has watched this team over the past three years. I just don't know what Ross has been watching during those same three years. Unfortuntely he is the one with the money and therefore we are forced to live with the fact that we are doomed to mediocrity or worse until he dies or sells this team.
     
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  10. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What Ross is doing is acting like an employer. He has hired people who had never before occupied their positions. He's willing to let them learn the job better and will give them a reasonable time to get that done. He believes that 8-8 is not indicative of incompetence because it's average. He'll live with average and give them the continuity he deems necessary to get to excellence by building through the draft and improving their coaching.

    I believe Coyle will be replaced. But those of us who want to win now have boarded the wrong bus.
     
  11. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You saying that Stephen Ross is "satisfied with mediocrity" is like me saying that you, a fan calling for another HC change, must be "obsessed with mediocrity."

    Do you see how that's insulting to you, condescending to anyone who may agree with you and in general a real divisive way of communicating?

    When people attempt to build this image of Stephen Ross in their heads they do themselves a disservice. The truth is, Ross wants the same thing you want, he's just going about it in a different way.

    You may disagree, and that's fine, but it's not okay to lie to yourself and say, 'if Ross doesn't agree with me--a guy judging his organization from the outside--then he must be a buffoon.'

    It's not a healthy thing to let your mind run wild like that. It's the basis for blinding yourself into thinking that the guy on the other side of the table is sub-human and downright evil.

    I'm not trying to overstep my bounds. I think it's just fair to point out that you're be happier and healthier in everything you do if you check yourself on saying stuff like that. You'll never understand your opponent if you don't attempt to. Worse, you may wind up siding with the wrong kind of people as well.
     
  12. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I really have no idea why you seem to think I'm not happy and healthy already.

    I live in paradise here in Hawaii. I retired financially secure at age 54. I play golf at least five days a week and for someone my age, my doctor always tells me my blood test results are that of males 20 years younger than I am. I also still run 5 miles at least 5 days a week.

    My wife and I have been happily married for the past 42 years. The fact is, I am extremely happy with my life. As far as me siding with the wrong kind of people is concerned.After working in law enforcement for 30 years, I probably have a lot better idea of who the wrong kind of people are then you do.

    As far as building an image in my head of Ross. I have stated many times that when it comes to his abilities in the area of real estate investing, I consider him a genius in that area. When it comes to his abilities as an NFL owner, I consider him clueless.

    Just because someone is a success in one aspect of his business life doesn't mean he can have success as the owner of a sports franchise.

    All it takes to be an owner of an NFL team today is a lot of money. It certainly doesn't take a background in the sport or the ability to select the right people to run your organization. You can put the worst team in the league on the field, year after year and you are still going to make plenty of money as an NFL owner. That is just the reality of how things are at this time in the NFL.

    I believe Ross wants a winner in Miami. I just don't think he has any idea how to do what is necessary to hire the right people to put a better product on the field. I believe keeping Philbin after three years of mediocre results was a mistake. Obviously he owns the team and can do whatever he wants to in regards to Philbin, but I can certainly disagree with his decision.

    I don't see this organization having success under his ownership. As a fan since 1966, it disappoints me to see how this organization has been reduced to mediocrity under his leadership.

    That being stated. Please don't concern yourself with my health or my state of mind. I am doing just great in those areas and while I may not be happy with the direction of the team under this ownership. I can assure you I love the life I have and I wouldn't want to change it one bit.

    In fact, to relieve the aggravation I get watching the Dolphins lose games, all I have to do is walk Out my front door and I am only 25 yards from one of the most beautiful beaches in the entire world. Life can't get much better than that.

    I might seem angry and stressed to you, but I write all my responses with a smile on my face. As I sit on my patio with my IPad, looking out over the mountains and ocean which make up the backdrop of the world I live in.
     
  13. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    You got married at the age of 12?
    :wink2:
     
  14. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He retired at 54. He's a lot older than that now. ;-)
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    They were a significantly better team pre inuries though.

    They've been good for a few years, which means they've been able to assemble better depth.

    Don't get me wrong, there's other coaches I'd rather have right now, but there is a talent problem on this team and its with depth....we don't have any.
     
  16. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We know one thing for sure by simple logic. Ross doesn't think that Philbin has had enough time to produce a winner.

    The problem with idea of the Peter Principle is that it doesn't account for the learning curve. People in new positions do get better. Some never do, because they're incompetent to do the job they have been promoted to do. It takes time to know which group an employee fits into.

    Ross probably doesn't think that three years is long enough to determine which of these two pigeonholes Philbin belongs in. What we don't know is the number of years Ross thinks is long enough to know. It may be four. It may be the five that Wayne gave Wanny. Hopefully, if he continues his flirtation with mediocrity, it isn't six or seven.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So what you're saying is most of the player who played week 17 simply didn't give a rats ***. They didn't come out and play for their coaches, the fans or the organization. And when that happens it sends a very poor message when no changes are made.
     
  18. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    No, I retired 11 years ago at age 54. I was married at age 23. Sorry I didn't clarify that in my comments.
     
  19. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    This is a great thread full of some excellent points. The over riding view is everyone wants a winner but none of us really know which is the best way. I'm more inclined to side with ross, although I'm not fully convinced by Philbin. If ross wants to let him learn and see what we have then I'm fine with that. That seems an entirely prudent and positive managerial stance. If he thinks we have run our course and cuts Philbin I could understand that too. We complained that Ireland (I don't want this thread to be about him) couldn't draft so if that is true what is Philbin really meant to do. If Ireland could draft, but Philbin couldn't coach did we let the wrong guy leave? It's more than likely a bit of both.
     
  20. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    That ruins everything.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Here's a link to a study that justifies (on statistical grounds) keeping Philbin (note: I'm still in favor of firing him):

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-6237.2012.00929.x/full

    The study assessed the effect of firing the coach on all FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision) football programs from 1997 to 2010 (14 years). Their conclusion basically supports the notion that statistically speaking team performance has more to do with strength of schedule, injuries to key players or other "random shocks" than coaching (and since this is college football, recruitment ability is another factor), and that changing coaches may be more disruptive than beneficial.

    Their conclusion:

    "We find that for particularly poorly performing teams, coach replacements have little effect on team performance as measured against comparable teams that did not replace their coach. However, for teams with middling records - that is, teams where entry conditions for a new coach appear to be more favorable - replacing the head coach appears to result in worse performance over subsequent years than comparable teams who retained their coach".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2016

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