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Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by alen1, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    They have also started to add Tuesday Night Titans and Prime Time Wrestling as well. Really hope they start adding more Nitros and WCW Saturday Night soon. And of course can't wait until they upload all of the Attitude Era RAWs and Smackdowns.

    I haven't watched the Monday Night Wars since the ECW episode, so I'm like 5 or 6 behind. I agree its tedious at times to watch mainly because of what you said but also because of how biased they are and continue to rewrite wrestling history, but I guess we shouldn't have expected anything less.

    And yes I agree they really should focus on making more original content for the Network. Why not just have Austin or Jericho or even Jim Ross interview a new superstar each week and film it? I must say their Network only docs on Bryan, Warrior after he died, and The Shield have been great. Still need to check up the Uso one.

    Really hope the Network starts to pick up more because it really is a good idea and has some good stuff on it, but I think they can do so much more with it and even market it better too.
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Also the most important thing the Network did was add the resume and play list feature for the app. Can't tell you how annoying it was to stop a PPV/show/whatever half way through and have to fast forward it to try and remember what part I left off at.
     
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  3. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I also think it would make for a neat special on WWE Network to show some of the bad proposed angles, gimmicks, uniforms. There has to be some audition, dress rehearsal footage that you can dig up, and then interview the wrestler, and creative members involved. Could make for an hour long special or two.
     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    What are you talking about there have never been any bad angles in the WWE.

    I do think some of their countdown episodes focus on worst gimmicks or biggest blunders.

    But yeah I agree that stuff would be interesting. Also nixed matches/angles and why they never happened etc.
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Current WM plans right now is for Sting to face Triple H and for The Undertaker to wrestle Bray Wyatt, which is of course depending on whether Taker can wrestle or not. The WWE wants his last match to be at WM32 in Texas and would like to put him in the HOF that year too.

    Also when Orton returns, he will be a face and feud with Kane. That's exactly what the WWE needs to get people to subscribe to the Network!
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    NXT PPV last night was pretty awesome. Owens, Zayn, Neville, Charlotte, KENTA and especially Finn Balor all should be big stars in the WWE if handled right. Balor's entrance was amazing, can't wait to see what it would be like at a WM.
     
  7. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Dude.....that was the best thing WWE has put on in a longgggg time

    I'd rather watch a replay of last night than TLC live....honestly.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It's because it's pro wrestling and not "sports entertainment" crap. Guys just went out there to have good matches with no backstage BS politics involved. Also having the event be only 2 hours helps as well.
     
  9. dolphinkev

    dolphinkev Active Member

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    I saw the ascension video on Smackdown and all I can say is Road Warriors Lite, They have one sound animal and the other yelling like Hawk all that is needed is spike on there shoulders.
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Kind of an eh PPV. Really liked the Ziggler/Harper match, Cena/Rollins and the Ambrose/Wyatt match minus the ending. Fans are really into Ambrose yet the WWE keeps having him lose the big matches. I mean I'm glad he's in the main event and all and he basically dominated the whole match and lo1ses on a fluke, it doesn't really even help Wyatt either. I guess let's see where it goes right?
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    The rest of the show was filler but hey Roman Reigns is back! And is in the Rumble! Wonder who's going to win....
     
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  11. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Ambrose and Wyatt both lose at PPVs...stands to reason that you have to have one of them win. I was fine with it.

    As for Ascension, they are clearly going for the Road Warriors vibe. I don't really see it with those two like everyone else does, but they have earned their way to the big roster, so I am willing to see how it translates.
     
  12. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The ending to the match did nothing to help either guy. Ambrose looks like a chump for having the TV explode in his face and Wyatt looks weak because he was dominated all match and gets a flukey pin. It also doesn't help that Ambrose has been one of the more popular wrestlers in the company since Punk walked out and Bryan got hurt and the guy hasn't won a PPV match since June, the last night The Shield was together. I think Ambrose needed a win there more than Wyatt did and instead the WWE blew it by having such a weak ending. You would think the WWE would want to continue to build Ambrose up but it's clear outside of Cena and Reigns they just don't care nor have any plans for the other faces in the company.
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    So RAW this Monday did a 3.51, the lowest rating for a show since 12/24/12, which obviously was Christmas Eve. It was the lowest non-holiday show since 12/3/12 and was one of the lowest rated episodes of RAW since 1997. If you don't think Vince is going to flip out and panic, you obivously don't know Vince.

    I wouldn't be shocked if Vince himself and/or Triple H and Stephanie are back on Monday or at least first show in January making changes (hopefully it means Cena/Orton for the WWE title at WM31). Wonder who they're going to blame for this one, because it can't be them who put the title on Brock and gave him a 3 month vacation.
     
  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Looks like the WWE is already hyping the 1/19 RAW, which is the go-home Rumble show, as a Reunion show and have announced that Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels will be there and John Cean will wrestle Seth Rollins in a 30 man lumberjack match.
     
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  15. dolphinkev

    dolphinkev Active Member

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    Finally I see they are bringing back the Authority, I figured they would have his Dad come to show and do something to him that way Cena would say the Authority could return but they used Edge, Now I wonder if this could be a way for Edge to come back and be a Thorn to Triple H.

    Opening of Next week's show will probaly be all the Performers standing on the Stage waiting for the Authority to come out and Start 2015 like 2014 and be the same Drivel all over again.
     
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  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    With ratings at a historic low its no surprise The Authority is coming back.

    Doubt Edge will come back full time, more likely and logic it opens up the doors for the Triple H/Sting match.

    With Bryan returning you have to think he has to win the Rumble or the fans will crap all over the winner ala Batista last year. I can't see how the WWE would hand Reigns the keys with Bryan and the smark fans around. Its just asking for trouble. Best bet is Bryan wins the Rumble, beats Brock for the title, Rollins cashes in and wins the belt and Reigns wins it from Rollins at Summer Slam.
     
  17. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Perspective.....

    a 3.5 is a MASSIVE, GARGANTUAN, ENGORGED number. It beats damn near everything except a live NFL game. Nothing to sneeze at.

    I felt compelled to post...The Ascension sucks as much now as they ever have, and their finisher is still Illegal. I wonder why nobody picks up on it?
     
  18. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Shareholders don't care though, all they see are the ratings continuing to go down (at times to historic lows not seen since the 90s). Add that to the fact that the Network is underwhelming in terms of subscribers and the WWE is losing money due to them killing their own PPV market is not surprising the McMahons are panicking. We are a few more weeks of bad ratings and a bad Rumble buyrate for another Cena title reign and Cena/Orton spring title program.
     
  19. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    But these people have to understand that a 3.5 NOW is like a 4.5 THEN since there are so many more options now.
     
  20. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Maybe so but there's no denying that the WWE isn't as popular or more importantly profitable which is what the shareholders are looking at.
     
  21. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    That is debatable.
     
  22. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    How is that even debatable? The WWE's PPV buyrates before they switched over to the WWE Network were down and have been down for years, like I said their TV ratings have been at historic lows the past few weeks (that's after they didn't get the money they wanted in their new TV deal with USA) and since they launched the Network they've had net losses due to the loss of their PPV revenue leading to their stock being down, thus the value of their company being down. And that's before we're getting into how poor the actual product has been.
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    What does everyone think of Rollins being added to the Title match at the Rumble?

    Seems like the obvious outcome is Cena pinning Rollins to win the title, then Brock going nuts and beating up both Cena and Rollins and then the Authority coming down to the ring to cash in Rollins MiTB case for him and putting Rollins on top of Cena for the pin and thus making Rollins champion.

    Still think the WM main event that makes the most sense is Brock/Bryan for the title but the WWE is still pushing Reigns hard but he's clearly not ready. I would have said Ambrose could have been a dark horse but he hasn't won a match in what feels like 6 months and hasn't won an important singles match on his own since the won the US title what 2 years ago? And thus fans are starting to give up on him but that's the WWE for you.
     
  24. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    How sad that WWE has taken Ambrose and turned him into crap. They literally turned steak into ****. Unreal. He's completely cold as ice with the crowd now, it takes a HUGE ****ing crazy ambulance spot to get any reaction from the crowd last night (however, that crowd was a ****ing joke)

    Rollins is literally the BEST thing in WWE right now. The best. When he turned heel and broke up the shield I never would've seen this coming. Hes one of the better HEELS in a long time. The **** with Edge last week was emmy worthy. I don't care if they need to make Cena look strong, however they do it, and make Rollins Champ, I'd be happy. Also, Rollins winning the strap with Bryan winning the rumble would be incredible, would make for some awesome matches, 4-5 stars every night.

    However, they will probably have Rollins win, Reigns win the rumble, re-hash the shield stuff, eventhough Reigns doesnt care? Ambrose turns heel and faces Bryan somehow......Cena Vs Brock.....career vs career match....lolcenawins.....etc.....
     
  25. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It's funny because I honestly never thought much of Rollins when he was in The Shield. Don't get me wrong, I thought he was a good wrestler but figured he'd be overshadowed when they broke up because it was obvious Reigns was the "Golden Boy" and Ambrose was wacky and unique enough to always have a spot. I figured Rollins would be stuck in mid-card hell ala a Kofi Kingston, maybe win a few US or IC titles but that's it. But he's been fantastic since the split and he's looking like a top guy for a long time. The best part is he gets it and is actually a heel and not trying to be cool or get cheers. He was the real MVP of the WWE last year.

    As far as Ambrose goes, it's really disappointing because I really feel like the fans desperately wanted to make Ambrose into the next big thing ala Daniel Bryan however like most things in the WWE if Vince and company don't want it to happen it won't. And now Ambrose is pretty much a lost cause for awhile but that's the WWE in a nutshell. Wins and losses sometimes do matter and it's hard to get behind someone when he's consistently getting beat and looking like a goof in the process. They finally have a new star fans like and want to see him do well and they piss it away because they want to keep Bray Wyatt strong (after having to build him back up after they killed his heat by having Cena beat him all summer) in case The Undertaker decides to wrestle at WM and thus has someone they can feed him too.

    I literally have zero faith in the WWE, the reason why NXT is so good is because Vince doesn't care about it and thus the wrestlers there can go out and just wrestle and not have to worry about sticking to the soap opera scripts and cheesy back stage crap.
     
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  26. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    By the way my WM 31 card would be:

    Bryan vs. Brock for the WWE title

    Cena vs. Rusev for the US title

    Ziggler vs. Barrett for the IC title

    Ambrose vs. Rollins vs. Reigns

    Sting vs. Triple H

    Undertaker vs. Bray Wyatt or Bray vs. Orton if Undertaker can't wrestle

    Charlotte vs. Paige for the Diva's Title

    The Miz/Mizdow vs. Cesaro & Tyson Kid for the Tag Titles

    Andre Battle Royal

    I think I remembered all the important wrestlers.
     
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  27. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    This is pretty much my exact same dream card as well. The Shield Triple Threat would be fantastic.
     
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  28. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    you don't settle on the value of your company when you make some changes with the future in mind.

    The genre is still the genre..and they DOMINATE it. Because a genre loses some popularity it does not go away. Your market share is still the same.

    There is just MORE entertainment options, but I am willing to bet that their merchandising has never been better, which would tell me that the genre is probably just as popular, and you are just losing out to other entertainment options.
     
  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    They dominate the genre because they are the only game in town, however that doesn't mean that they are as popular or still making the kind of money they were in the late 90s/early to mid 2000s because they're not. Everything is down from their ratings to buy rates to attendance at live events to yes even merchandising is down. To say otherwise is completely and utterly false. Right now the WWE is in a down swing profit/revenue wise.

    You hit the nail right on the head, there are more entertainment options available (like UFC/MMA for example) and because of that, as well as other factors, is why the business is way down. People aren't watching or as interested in pro wrestling right now as they were even 5 years ago. The numbers are the proof.
     
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    So Ziggler apparently lost the IC title on Monday because the WWE was upset with him for booking a comedy gig without asking them first. So yeah there you go.

    But hey good thing he did because he got fired on Monday right?
     
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  31. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    ****ing Vince. Guy is ridiculous. I am equally terrified yet soooooo excited for him to hand over the reigns/Die.
     
  32. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I really don't know how I feel about Vince finally stepping down. On one hand he seems completely out of touch with the current fan base and pop culture but on the other hand Stephanie seems like a nightmare to work with/for and who knows how she'll be with free reign and actually running everything. Triple H also has no experience running a business but at least he has an eye for talent so that obviously helps. But yeah we'll see. But like you said it's terrifying either way.
     
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  33. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Survivor Series will be in Atlanta in November.....might try to go to that. Only 3 hours from me.
     
  34. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Actually...their total general revenue is now DOUBLE than what it was in 1999.

    http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/World_Wrestling_Entertainment_(WWE)/Data/Gross_Profit

    I just went over their financials, and sure enough, they have made more money on average, the last 5 years, than at any other point in the company's recorded financial history.

    Before, I just disagreed based on aesthetics. Now I disagree based on facts.

    They have never been healthier financially.
     
  35. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    and let me explain once again....(I do this for a living)

    Ratings...don't matter.

    We once quartered (Sports Bang) ESPN's #1 rated show (College Gameday). When we did that...our show made half the revenue it makes today.

    WWE dominates a genre that appeals to the 25-54 demographic. Their ratings dictate, however "down" they may be, that they are still #1 in their time slot unless they face Live NFL Football.

    The cost of Ad Space on RAW has tripled since the attitude era, and now we have a 3 hour show that manages at least 16 segments. Their Ad inventory is insane. Their Ad revenue might actually be right on par with Monday Night Football, and look at what ESPN pays for that property.


    In the end...don't believe the hype. WWE is really healthy financially.
     
  36. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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  37. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    As for merchandising, I could only find numbers since 2007.

    They are slightly up per year on merch since then, but merch is so insignificant that it doesn't seem to matter.

    For example, on Venue Merch, they usually make somewhere around $18 to $19 mil a year on site, and another 12 to 15 online.

    So you are talking about $30 to $35 million in rev. from merch.

    So how insignificant is that? WWE Bills around $515 to $550 MILLION in Ad Revenue each year. LOL
     
  38. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    In my next life, I want to be a McMahon.


    PS.- Read these last few posts I made whenever you feel like going on a Smark rant about how they don't know what they are doing.
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    This is the chart you want to look at, as it's the company's actual bottom line:

    http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/World_Wrestling_Entertainment_(WWE)/Data/Derived_Net_Income

    So while they might have grossed more each year, which would make sense because they have been expanding globally and of course naturally due to inflation. Will be interesting to see their 2014 results.

    If things were so great financially with the WWE why has their stock price dropped so much last year?

    The fact remains that what I said in my previous post about ratings, live attendance, and merch are down and that the company is on a down swing in terms of revenue is correct. They lost money this year with the launch of the Network and loss of the PPV buys and the popularity of the business in general is down.
     
  40. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Ratings absolutely do matter. The WWE absolutely tracks it and its a reason why or how they plan out RAW to maximize the viewership. Its also factored in when they have to make a TV deal and with ad space. Yes they are still rated well in their demo but the fact is their ratings and viewership has decreased which is a big reason why they didn't get the TV deal Vince was bragging about to investors last year (which is another reason why the stock dropped) and why USA has them by the balls. The fact that WWE was worried what they would do if USA decided not to reup and drop them and where they would go was a real concern.

    USA is basically the ones controlling the RAW right now, they forced the WWE into going to a 3 hour show and they're actually the ones that wanted to put Triple H and Stephanie on TV full time because they felt having a McMahon on the show would help the ratings. Which again was why it was no surprise The Authority was brought back so quickly once the ratings hit all time lows. I said it weeks in this thread before it even officially happened.

    WM is in its own league and really taken a life of its own which the McMahons deserve big time credit for no doubt. It almost doesn't matter what matches are on the card because the event sells itself. But the rest of the PPV business was eh and with the start of the Network it killed the WWE's PPV revenue big time. This has been discussed numerous times here.
     

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