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I'm out on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Dec 28, 2014.

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  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It makes me sad this thread has these kind of legs, no offense to OP who is just expressing his opinion. But in my opinion, I think Tannehill is too good for us fans to be having this level of debate about him. There is absolutely room for improvement, but for us to question whether he's the guy at this point with the level of improvement he has shown and the numbers he put up this year is kinda nuts. This isn't John Beck or Chad Henne we are talking about...
     
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  2. redzone

    redzone New Member

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    True need better RB play but OG is a problem too. Eventually the RB will get worn down or hurt. That's the difference with Dallas this year, I remember them running their backs to the ground now there's holes to run through. Remember Ricky and Ronnie, big tuff backs getting the crap beat out of them. Need a reliable blocking front first. Need big Albert back healthy and two new OG's and a bruising/blocking RB. Come draft time drafting a young DT first thing should be obvious.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think its very relevant blitz, we have big decisions coming up sooner than later, now no doubt we should give him his 15 mill dollar extension, so he has one more year to prove to some he is worth tying up a huge percentage of your cap to one position, and at this point he will have to prove some things before I would do that, I don't think its so outlandish.


    ''After 16 weeks the Dolphins led the NFL in percentage of drives that have started in the opponents territory with 29 in 181 possessions. (16%)''

    gave the offense the best chances to score in the league, and we didn't take advantage.
     
  4. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Ghosts of failed QB's past has a large portion of the fanbase in a paranoid state.
     
  5. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    His ability to do this is pretty impressive.
     
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So why is everyone so focused on our third year QB who had improved every season, and put up pretty impressive numbers this season??
     
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  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Because it is the most important position in the game and requires large resource considerations.
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, because they ARE poor. The only stat that Tannehill was average or below in was YPA. Even that was above 7 for the last 11 games of the year, and I attribute a lot of that to an oline that couldn't block long enough to let routes develop downfield.

    Look, you think Tannehill isn't good enough, therefore, you think that his team around him was decent, and got them to 8-8. I think Tannehill is good...really good. I think they got 8-8 with an overall poor team because Tannehill is good.
     
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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    While that is true, quarterback play was far above the play of the defense, oline, and kicker. So, if you want to fix the problem, you start with the real problems: oline and defense.

    So, again, WHY are we discussing the QB? He wasn't even close to the reason we lost 8 games.
     
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  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    "Start with the real problem" is a non sequitur.
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Do you not think it's telling, though, that Cassell stepped in and won 11 games, though, and then has been basically garbage everywhere else? It should tell you that even though is elite, he still needs a good team around him.
     
  12. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I'd go as far as saying we would have won the division with that Seattle defence.

    Over the last 6 games of the season they surrendered at total of 39 points (average of 6.5 per game), with the highest being 14. In the other 5 games they gave up 1 touchdown, those are guaranteed wins.

    That defence won 6 games all on their own, even Ray Lucas would have had a 6-0 record in those games.
     
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Nonsense. If you're looking at problems, there are big problems, there are problems that are not big problems. The big problem on this team was the defense and the oline. Tannehill is a third year QB who out up stats good for basically top 10 in the league. He has improved every year. Every. Damn. Year. There is literally nothing that points to Tannehill having reached his ceiling. So, I don't consider Tannehill to be a problem. The defense and oline, however, are huge problems.
     
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  14. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Elite QB's do carry teams TO the playoffs, but Brady is a perfect example of an Elite QB not being able to carry a team THROUGH the playoffs.

    Brady is one of the main reasons that the Pats can pencil in the division title every August, but over-reliance on Brady is one of the main reasons the Pats' best achievements are more than ten years behind them. IMO, the reasons they're in the conversation this year, in addition to the solidified OL, are a healthy Gronk and great play by the linebackers and secondary. Defensively, this looks (to me) more like a Belichick team than any Pats team of the last decade.

    We're at the point, though, where Brady will get all the credit if they manage to win it this year. That's the nature of the position, and that's why everyone's paying so much attention to Tannehill when the rest of the team has serious issues.
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Again, "if you're looking at problems" is a non-sequitor. Not everyone chooses to compartmentalize everything into what they consider to be a "problem" (which is a nebulus term to begin with), or not a "problem".

    I also have no idea why you have a bizarre requirement for people to address things in sequential order based upon your arbitrary determination of how much of a "problem" they are. The fact that in a thread evaluating Ryan Tannehill's ability, you keep harping on how bad the defense and the OL are, rather than debating the OP's points.
     
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  16. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    We would have been spotted 6 games, of course we would have made the playoffs.

    If our defence had played the last 6 games like the first 6 games we would have made the playoffs let alone the Seahawks defence.
     
  17. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    LOL do you understand what you're saying? It's called the "READ" option for a reason.

    What route combinations do you plan to use with all of these rollouts?
     
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  18. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with you that Tannehill hasn't reached his ceiling, but under this coaching staff, a plateau season next year isn't out of the question. Especially if he isn't allowed to audible.
     
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  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I should have probably added their defensive coaches as well as their defense. Knowing Coyle, he'd have probably found a way to screw it up if he was simply given the Seattle defensive personnel. :sad:
     
  20. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    like i said before tannehill gets more praise and respect outside of his own fanbase. there are playoff teams out there and fringe playoff teams that would love to have tannehill as their qb yet we gripe and harp on the fact that he doesn't run like kapernick or wilson.......
     
  21. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    I don't hear people questioning whether he's the guy. I hear them wondering if he's got what it takes to be elite and carry a team largely by himself, or if he's part of that middle tier of QBs I mentioned who need more talent around them for their teams to be highly successful. That seems to be an appropriate sort of discussion at this point in his career in my opinion, and certainly the number of posts here attests to that.
     
  22. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Thank You! Most of us aren't saying he's a bad QB, we are saying he is a tad bit overrated here on phin forums. From a national view, he isnt. (Most from a nation wide perspective would say he has a lot to prove still, considering he's never won anything, not a passing category, not a playoff appearance, not an award) He is a good QB, probably 11th or 12th best in league, but if we are gonna run a pass first oriented offense we will need him to be a top 5 if we are gonna expect to win anything at all. Otherwise, I think he would be very successful in a power run offense.(which I'm still on board with, power run offenses disguises bad OL play and keeps D fresher, 2 glaring problems we seem to have)
     
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  23. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good point.

    I'm thrilled with Tannehill, but I agree with some of DJ's concerns. IMO, the offense puts a lot of pressure on Tannehill, and while he has the skillset to make the game easier for himself, he's not doing that. I don't know if it's coaching or personal choice, but the game should be a lot easier for Ryan than it is.

    And I say this as someone who would extend the guy tomorrow.
     
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  24. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Except people, like you, have put so much blame on Tannehill it's not even funny. Fact of the matter is, if our defense had sealed the deal the way should have against Green Bay, Detroit, and Denver, half of these threads harping on Tannehill wouldn't even exist.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your questioning the abilities of tom brady and russell wilson in this thread...please Res, just stop..
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm thinking ahead..can we win games with ryan?..yes..do we need to surround him with a lot of talent?..yes...why?..because thats the type of qb he is at this point, a strict pocket passer..there is no room for error so you better spend serious resources, how far will this philosophy get you is where I get concerned.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess the problem is that most seem to think his lack of pocket awareness and escapability/playmaking ability is all due to the poor oline. so if they think that I guess its hard for them to understand what I'm seeing...and thats where the debate gets grey, they could be right, that extra second or two may just be the caveat to a different type of qb.Whats bothersome to me is when some say its not a big deal or they don't even care that he's not running on his own, their completely content with 1/2 run a game..1 rollout a game and 2 1/2 carries a game from a qb with this skill set..I feel like the pocket qb perception is so engrained in some that they don't see the other side, they don't see how to attack multidimensionally, their just content with him sitting there behind a poor line and taking it..why is he doing that is the question?, because thats what a qb is supposed to do, stand in there at all costs to execute what the coach sent in in the midst of a line that can't hold protection...something doesn't add up here in a major way, and after three years there are no signs thats its gonna get better.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yes I do..what I'm telling you is he's not keeping the ball when there are opps to keep the ball and gain yardage on the edge.

    rollouts and nakeds can be dispersed effectively thru proper gameplaniing and the understanding of situational football relative to what the defense is showing you.bottom line, there is room in any gameplan to average more than one rollout a game, especially with this skill set...you dictate to your opponent...its just a play, if it aint there, he has the option to run or throw it away.

    this is discussion on how this qb is going to get better and what he and his coordinator need to do to accomplish that so we can win a championship..im not into changing a skill set to fit a system, im into adapting the system to fit the qb..

    the bootleg needs to be a staple of this offense, do you even get that?...and it most certainly isn't..
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol..yes arizoa...they're on their 3rd string.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he's an average qb, trying to figure out how he gets better, I think I know what he needs to do but it doesn't seem to be popular..and imo, if he doesn't do what I'm suggesting, we aint winning sh%$.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    man did you nail it...only thing I would add is that two coordinators thus far don't seem to want to utilize it either, maybe its them maybe its tannehill..I think there are some pretty elementary things that could be done that would improve this qb...
     
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  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    For me, atm Tannehill is Alex Smith once he turned the corner in SF, and I do not believe he has reached Smith's Captn' Checkdown status, he has more talent out on the field.

    Also think Deej, love ya man, all of the read option things you like are beginning to hit the wall ala Kaep in SF this yr.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    there were opps in those games for the offense to seal the deal as well, coaching lost the packer game, the offense went three and out right before the lions last drive.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    niners did not run the pistol this year..read option is alive and well..hell ryan had almost a 6 yard average when running it..wilson is over 6 running it..dont think so Pod.
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I haven't really said anything about Wilson in this thread. You guys are getting me confused with other people. That being said, you can't ignore stuff like Cassel coming in and getting 11 wins. Unless you're of the opinion that Cassel was/is also an elite quarterback. I'm making a point, DJ, that you guys don't seem to want to acknowledge, and that is that even elite QBs have significant help from other parts of their teams. I'll agree that elite QBs can carry the offense, but if the the defense is playing like garbage, there is literally nothing the QB can do about it. My reference to Brady literally had nothing to DI with him being elite or not. I think he is elite. I had countless arguments over his eliteness on a Madden forum I used to frequent, with a guy who thought Brady was hot garbage.
     
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  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Correct, but like I've said, over and over again, the defense could have done their job, regardless of the offense, and won the game. Yes, the offense failed late in the fourth, but the defense frittered away leads in those games because they couldn't make stops.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So? There's oopps moments in every game by every player.

    What there isn't is, is defenses allowing 30+ a game.
     
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  38. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Right... like Clay securing the TD against the Lions for the win.

    Or the defense NOT allowing an average of OVER 33 ppg in the final 4 games... Dafuq.
     
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  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    were spinning here...

    my point is simple, I believe a qb has to be very crafty within the pocket if he's gonna be a great pocket passer...I don't see that in our qb so id like for him and his coordinator to make him more than the one dimension he is at this point.
     
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  40. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Where were the points in the ravens game on offense? Or any of the jets games? Or the lions game? (holding to 20 against a good lions offense that had a surging golden Tate and fresh megatron is a good day for the D, no matter how you slice it) I can play the same argument as you can...
     
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