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Who do you want in the first round

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Bigsteve606, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It seems early to totally commit to one 1st round pick, but right now today, I'd take La'el Collins.
     
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  2. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In no particular order:

    Landon Collins - S - Alabama
    Kevin White - WR - W. Virginia
    Amari Cooper - WR - Alabama
    Benardrick McKinney - LB - Miss. State
    Denzel Perryman - LB - Miami

    I'd be pretty happy with any of those guys. I think of the bunch Landon Collins is my favorite.
     
  3. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Save for Perryman, I'd be pretty happy with those guys.
     
  4. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Perryman's not a top 20 talent, imo. Solid but not particularly dynamic. A little undersized too, especially considering the fact that he's not a standout in coverage from an athletic/matchup standpoint - some places list him in the 240s at 6-0 or 6-1, but I think he's closer to 5-11. I'll be curious to see the 40 time he logs, but at the moment I think he's a day two pick.

    Collins certainly has a lot going for him. But the question for the Phins is whether he fits alongside Reshad Jones. Not sure he does. Talented though.
     
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  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    Yea he has a lot of issues, and with this regime being so quick to dismiss talent the first time a player has a gripe then it's pretty much assumed that a guy like DGB won't even be on the draft board.
     
  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    My takes on Gordon is if a need/value pick is gone and we can't get trade down value then it's a no brainer....I'm a fan of Lamar Miller but that's Jamaal Charles sitting their for the taking imo.
     
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  7. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Does Universal Draft still exist?
     
  8. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Yes, very unusual to see a guy walking around with what looks like a former Broncos QB, Tim Tebow, Football card hanging around his neck. :shifty:
     
  9. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Probably Jaelen Strong right now.
     
  10. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Can't really see Strong going that high. He's probably a 2nd rounder unless he really impresses between now and the draft. He's somewhere down the list of WRs after Cooper, Parker, and White, along with Coates and Funchess.
     
  11. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box



    CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon - Despite the injury, I still don't think he makes it to us.
    CB P.J. Williams, Florida State - Would like this pick. Gives us a guy bigger than Grimes to match up against bigger receivers. I like him in rd 2 though and doubt he gets to us there.
    LB Bernardrick McKinney, Mississippi State - Was not impressed, but also not turned off... seems like a safe, boring LB pick. Good size, but style-wise he's just a bigger Jasper Brinkley (may be a run-downs guy). Eric Kendricks would be my preference.
    WR Kevin White, West Virginia - Definitely worth our first round pick.
    WR Jaelen Strong, Arizona State - Would be happy with this too. Just the type of receiver we need.
    RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin - I have my misgivings about his fit for us with Miller on the roster and us needing a powerful between the tackles guy. But I went into enough detail about that on an earlier post.
     
  12. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    I'd be okay with him at our pick in the first, despite feeling it's a bit too high for him. He may not make it to us in the second. Actually, likely not.

    His value is probably closer to 22-27 in the first round. Which is a total guess, like all of this b.s., but it's my best b.s. guess right now.
     
  13. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Even if we were to sign a Suh or Dan Williams.......I would still go Danny Shelton. Get rid of Starks and let Odrick go and move Earl Mitchell over to replace Odrick. Then come back with a hopefully sliding cause of his height Perryman at our 2nd rounder.

    Other players I like there....Kevin White, Shaq Thompson.
     
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  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Ok, my shocking choice- Vic Beasley, and for very good reason [and no that reason is not Clemson].
     
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  15. mercurycougarfan

    mercurycougarfan New Member

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    I think if we stick at that pick it will be a corner like Waynes, or peters if not we trade back and get a LB, OL, or still A CB. I think we should trade down get some picks and prob a LB or CB


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I like, in no particular order, but in two tiers:

    White WR
    Strong WR
    Collins S
    Shelton DT

    Gordon RB
    Thompson LB

    I don't like the other LBs in the first other than Thompson and even he will need better DT play in front of him to be effective. I'm just not sure if he's just better on the outside than inside and I want better inside play. Not crazy about spending a 1st on a G or for either of those CBs. Usually don't like to spend a first on a RB but Gordon may special enough to make me consider it. I may be tempted to pass and hope a Gurley makes it to our #2 or even just sign a Gore and look for a young RB late. Not a fan of Parker. I don't see great separation in his game. Although there has been reports of a foot injury so maybe that's why, but the issue is clearly there. I really like White and Strong at WR and I also like Devin Smith in the 2nd. WRs usually drop on draft day, maybe a guy like Strong drops and you can snag him in the 2nd (or you have Smith as a consolation prize) so you take another spot in the first? Shelton would be a solid pick, but probably not as exciting Collins or one of my top two WRs.
     
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  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Mostly agree. Curious if you like Kendrick in the second if he gets there?


    My two cents via iPhone.
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind Kendrick in the second, I just have a feeling that there may be a few options I like better depending on FA and/or what happens in the first.
     
  19. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Watching Reggie Bush yesterday was a stark reminder of what Lamar Miller is and isn't. He's a productive back w/decent vision, speed, and quickness. He lacks real play making ability and doesn't possess much elusiveness. A guy like Gordon would be a welcome upgrade and it would give us a nice 1-2 punch w/Miller coming off the bench.

    My concern is that Joe Philbin is going to run a two back system BS if he had a Gordon type. Gordon gets one series, Miller another, and back and forth. It's not only a waste but limits continuity from one drive to the next. I know Miller got the bulk of the carries this season, but they were doing that same BS with Moreno, despite Moreno playing significantly better.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Hah. I'm sure the colors have nothing to do with it. :)

    Haven't you been begging for a big 5-tech? Between Chris McCain and Dion Jordan, we already have a lot of candidates to be playing Sam, no?
     
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  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Echo.

    Much as I like Shaq Thompson and think he could be a big play-maker, I'm just not sure about going after that position. He could miss a lot of tackles at the next level. I could definitely see that happening.

    Not yet sure if Jaelen Strong makes the short list for me yet, as much as I like him (especially more so than Parker). You're right that good WRs seem to fall and you could probably pick one up later.

    But I also think that the BEST guys, the ones that are for sure all the way up at the top...those are the guys that change games. We all know Amari Cooper is up there but tape study seems to suggest Kevin White belongs as well. You have to draw the line in the sand at some point with those top level WR prospects...some of them are worthy. Cooper and White are worthy. They're not "maybe" guys. Unless I'm completely off and White goes out running 4.6's or something.
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I kind of think Melvin Gordon should be up there on the short list. It's not like he came from nowhere. Dude's been at the very TOP of the radar since early last year. And what does he do this year? Damn near sets a record for single-season rushing amidst a pass-crazy college football landscape.

    The top three prior to Melvin Gordon were Barry Sanders, Kevin Smith and Marcus Allen. Now obviously Kevin Smith didn't go on to do anything but there's a reason he got there in the first place. He played at UCF against teams like UL-Lafayette, La Tech, Marshall, Tulsa, East Carolina, Memphis, UAB, SMU and UTEP. He's not to be compared with Barry Sanders running at Oklahoma State or Marcus Allen running at USC.

    But hell this was the top 10 prior to Melvin Gordon:

    1. Barry Sanders, Oklahoma State
    2. Kevin Smith, UCF
    3. Marcus Allen, USC
    4. Troy Davis, Iowa State
    5. Andre Williams, Boston College
    6. LaDainian Tomlinson, TCU
    7. Tony Dorsett, Pittsburgh
    8. Mike Rozier, Nebraska
    9. Matt Forte, Tulane
    10. Ricky Williams, Texas

    Not a bad list. And forget trying to weed out a guy by him coming from this school or that school. On tape Melvin Gordon has looked like a star for years. You could look at a Kevin Smith and know he's not necessarily a 1st round guy. I guess I never really looked at Troy Davis before so I don't know about him.

    I see the arguments that can be made about Melvin Gordon with respect to pass catching and pass blocking, not being a bruiser, all that stuff. I get it. I don't buy it though. Put a ball in his hands as a pass catcher, and who is he? He's Melvin Gordon, III. He doesn't suddenly stop being Melvin Gordon, III because you put the ball in his hands via pass as opposed to hand-off. Most RBs are ineffective pass blockers. They're meant as speed bumps not road blocks. Not even that important in Lazor's offense anyway.

    What I want are guys that can take over games. You know how long it's been since we've seen that with any kind of consistency? We've seen Cam Wake do it before. It's really tough for any one guy to do it on defense but he's gotten there. On offense though...who has taken over games?

    I remember seeing it happen one time this year. I'm not saying it didn't happen other times. But I remember Knowshon Moreno taking the game away from the New England Patriots. He brutalized them on the ground. The Patriots played a game plan that was intended to let him have some yards, as I think a lot of defenses did against the Dolphins this year. And he took more than they allowed. His longest run was 15 yards and he ran 24 times for 134 yards and broke 6 tackles along the way. He was a constant source of keeping the offense in favorable down & distance situations and that helped the offense turn in a game-winning 34 point performance against the most feared team in the AFC.

    Who wouldn't want that? You're going to get a lot more than just one of those if you draft Melvin Gordon.
     
  23. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Remind me again what world you're in where this supposed Moreno/Miller ball share BS happened?

    They played one full game together, and Moreno got more than twice as many carries and didn't sub for each other on each alternating series.
     
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't see how Thompson could play or hold up inside, possibly not even in college, let alone the NFL. Jeleni Jenkins isn't the problem with Miami's defense, so I don't understand the desire by some to tinker with a position that doesn't need tinkering.

    Jenkins was knocked in the draft b/c scouts thought he wasn't big enough or strong enough at the point of attack. 3 things from this: 1) Jenkins has been a great outside linebacker, so why move him inside when we're not certain he can perform well there? We could find ourselves looking for a new MLB, in which case we'll have essentially wasted a 1st round pick since Jenkins doesn't need to be replaced. 2)There were pre-draft concerns about Jenkins who is bigger and stronger than Thompson, so I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Thompson will hold up in the NFL, just as the slighter bigger/stronger Arthur Brown has had trouble. 3) If we draft Thompson, not only is it not guaranteed that he beats out Jenkins at Will, but if he's simply handed the Will position from the start while Jenkins is forced to move inside, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we find ourselves looking for 2 new linebackers in a couple years after Jenkins leaves Miami in FA for a team not intending to misuse him.

    If our problem is at MLB, then to me common sense says we need a MLB. I could understand if we want to run a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5 where we're looking for a safety-linebacker hybrid as the 5th DB, but I think we've possibly got enough to worry about as it is with fixing Coyle's scheme to add another piece to the puzzle that complicates matters further.
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I stick by my initial thoughts on Melvin when you pointed him out to me last year [or second initial thoughts after you made me keep watching]. He's a thicker Jamaal Charles. He's a f***ing special player. Screw the non bruiser stuff. The dude finishes well. He runs with 3 eyes and 2 brains. He's like the Bobby Fisher of running backs, seeing things in advance and always choosing the correct move or countermove. How many solid 6 to 10 yard runs by 95% of the backs does Melvin turn into 20+ b/c his second level ability is beyond insane? On that note I thought Lamar Miller's second level ability saw a drastic improvement the last 2 games. Everything's finally slowing down for him.
     
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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Kevin Smith & Troy Davis are on that list for the same reason- 1st & 4th most single season carries of all time with a combined 852 carries.
    Sanders & Gordon surpassed their combined 4,752 yards [5,215] on 165 less carries. If Sanders & Gordon had as many combined carries, they'd be at 6,467 yards.
     
  27. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    They alternated every series until Miller fumble. they alternated the same against GB until Moreno got hurt. And you can go back to Reggie Bush and DT alternating every series in 2012, or Miller and DT in 2013. Philbin rotates RB by series. It's been a pattern throughout his tenure.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This. You're not taking MG3 because he can do the job, or because he can "carry the load". You're taking him because he's special. We don't have a lot of "special" on this team. We don't have a lot of guys that can just take over games. MG3 won't do that every game, as that would be absurd. But he could do it multiple games per year and that could be huge. I mean there will be multiple games per year the other team's fans walk out of the game explaining that they lost because they "just couldn't stop Melvin Gordon".

    Tannehill consistently has a much, much better passer rating on 3rd & <6 as opposed to 3rd & 6+. We are talking like 93 versus 61 in 2013 and 98 versus 62 in 2014. Huge disparity. There's a big disparity in his sack rates too.

    I'm not saying that's unheard of. It's true of a fair number of other QBs out there. But most of the good ones are not down in the low 60's on 3rd & 6+. Tannehill is. Not getting into that can of worms, I will just leave it there and say it's more imperative than most QBs that we keep him in favorable 3rd down situations. You get a Melvin Gordon and that's exactly what you're doing.

    Know what else though? In Philly when Lazor was there, Nick Foles had an absurd rating of about 140 on 2nd & <6. Mark Sanchez this year also had a much higher rating on 2nd & <6 than 2nd & 6+. The disparities across the NFL on 2nd down by distance are a lot less consistent than on 3rd down. It seems to me like something Lazor brought with him from Kelly's offense because all the sudden in 2014 Tannehill has a 121 passer rating on 2nd & <6 (was not the case in 2013 under Sherman, in fact he had a higher rating on 2nd & 6+ than 2nd & <6).

    So think of Melvin Gordon as really doing four things for you:

    1. He can take over games with consistent running
    2. He can break games open with huge runs
    3. He can help you avoid messy 3rd downs that make our particular quarterback look bad
    4. He can produce more 2nd down situations that are especially productive in Lazor's offense

    I mean it's one thing if I'm talking myself into this philosophically and forgetting to evaluate the player. But that is not the case here. This guy is really. Really. Really. Good.
     
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  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    When I think about Gordon what comes to mind is how many ridiculously long runs he had. If you want an offense to have more chunk plays you could do worse than add Gordon. It's kind of what I hoped Miller might do this year with his speed. But Miller only did it once that I recall and that was in that last game against the Jets. Gordon does that constantly and even when doesn't he's still consistently getting you plus yardage. I don't really recall seeing Gordon caught behind the line much. He does a good job of following the block and hitting the right hole. He just does it so fast that he's often off to the races. Obviously that will be more difficult in the NFL, but it should still continue. Gordon seems to get his long runs off of middle runs. The RBs that have long runs in college but then struggle in the pros are the ones that tend get their long runs by running outside.
     
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  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Melvin Gordon is on my short list as well, we need a player to take the pressure off tannehill..he does that.
     
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  31. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    This x100. Been saying this for a while...we don't have game-changing players on offense, no one that defenses have to gameplan for specifically, no one they fear, no one we can count on to take over a game.

    People look at the offensive meltdown that followed the Albert injury and say we lacked adequate depth. I say the real issue that was exposed was our lack elite playmakers who cover up the inevitable injuries and yearly (unexpected) holes. Guys are going to go down. Every season. But playoff teams have studs who make up for things like the Albert injury. Heck...look at all the changing personnel and coaching and schemes over the years we've had on defense...but because we have Cam Wake that unit has been solid ever since he got here. He's a great player who makes up for year-to-year inconsistencies and changes. One OLine injury shouldn't undo a playoff push, but with this offensive roster it does. When you don't have elite players, your margin for error (and bad luck) is basically zero.

    So anyways, yes...Melvin Gordon :up:.
     
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  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ATM I think Jaelen is more of a top 45 pick than a top 20. He might be a 4.65 version of the 4.5 Jordy Nelson [regardless of what he times at]. Kenny Britt was a late 1st, and Strong seems like a 4.6 version of 4.47 Britt. Or maybe he's Eric Decker who went in the 3rd but will now go mid 2nd b/c he's the black version. LOL.

    I don't think there's any question about Jaelen making plays downfield, on 50-50 balls, in the red zone, or on quick passes behind the LOS, but I wonder if he'll be able to get open enough in the other 75% of his game to become a reliable possession receiver. I think he'll slide till the 2ndbecause teams will have to feel beyond a shadow of a doubt that he possesses enough speed for it to not be a concern. At least in Miami, Wallace's presence and Lazor's space-oriented offense and ability to scheme Jaelen open might mitigate that concern. The 6'3 220, 13th selected Michael Floyd satisfied those concerns by running a 4.4.

    Without the great athleticism of a Dez Bryant or a Sammy Watkins or the elite size of a Calvin Johnson or Mike evans, I think Strong needs to run a 4.45 and under to garner top 20 consideration and a 4.5 and under to garner 1st round [unless he displays crazy hands at the combine and runs a quick cone/shuttle]. At 6'3 220, Floyd's 4.4 forty pushed him into the top 15. If he were 6'5 230 he would've been a top 7 pick, probably 5th instead of Blackmon, so in essence you could say he was knocked a smidge for his size b/c it didn't represent elite. So, a 6'3, 215 guy with 4.55 speed who is a good but not great hands-catcher [I'm talkin' normal route stuff, not the less-frequent jump balls or acrobatic grabs] could really go anywhere in the 30's to 40's IMO. 6'3 220, 4.5 Allen Robinson fell to the late 2nd like I predicted b/c he displayed concerns about being a body catcher and ran a 4.57 at the combine. Otherwise, if he were a natural hands catcher and consistently ran a sub 4.5, he would've been selected before Marquis Lee and perhaps even 28th instead of Benjamin b/c he already possessed 1st round athleticism and size. There were concerns about Jordan Matthews' separation ability [even after running a 4.44] which pushed him to 42nd. Is there much difference between Matthews & Strong?

    Plus, does the 2014 crazy WR class impact this year's? Did enough teams get their fill to hurt Jaelen's stock?

    Shooting from the hip here, it seems like a WR needs 1 elite trait to make it into the 1st round [2 elite traits if one is jump ball ability] and 2 elite traits to go top 20 [3 if one of those is jump ball ability]. Teams might not set it up that way, but that's how it seems to turn out.
    Benjamin- elite size & jump ball ability
    Cooks- elite speed & athleticism
    Beckham- elite speed, athleticism, hands, and jump ball ability
    DeAndre Hopkins- elite hands
    Patterson- elite athleticism & speed
    Kendall Wright- borderline elite speed, athleticism, and YAC
    AJ Jenkins- elite measurables [4.37, 38.5, 10'04, 6.73 3-cone]
    Jon Baldwin- elite size & jump ball ability w/ sub 4.5
    Maclin- elite athleticism & borderline elite speed
    Harvin- elite athleticism & speed
    Nicks- elite hands & jump-ball, plus borderline elite athleticism & movement ability to overcome a 4.51.
    Britt- elite jump ball, plus a borderline elite combination of size, speed, athleticism with sub 4.5.
    Bowe- borderline elite combination of size, speed [4.4 pro day], jump ball, and athleticism.
    Buster Davis- elite speed/measurables at 6'1 200 to squeak into late 1st.
    Robert Meachem- elite measurables [4.39, 37.5, 10'08, 6.93 cone] at 6'2 214.
    Anthony Gonzalez- elite combination of measurables [4.44, 38.0, 10'03, 6.54 cone], hands, and route running at 6'0 195. BTW, slot receivers for Peyton Manning. Those guys should seriously consider taking out insurance policies or something.

    At 6'4, 200, 39.5 vert, elite jump ball ability, and good hands, Sidney Rice should've easily gone before Buster Davis and Robert Meachem, but at 4.51 he slid to 44th.

    At 6'3 220, Jordy Nelson had a borderline elite combination of hands, athleticism, and size, but he ran a 4.51 and coincidentally lasted till 36th, yet his great overall combination of traits now equates to a top NFL receiver. I also think him being white didn't help matters TBH.
    At 6'3 220, Brian Quick's 4.50 kept him out of round 1 [picked 33rd] despite generating much buzz during Senior Bowl week.
    6'3 216 Alshon Jeffery was pushed to 45th for concerns about separation ability.


    Guys like Buster Davis [4.41 but played faster], AJ Jenkins [4.37], Meachem [4.39], Ted Ginn [4.38], DHB [4.25], Donnie Avery [4.34], and Justin Hunter [4.36] getting drafted before studs like Jordy Nelson [4.51], Erick Decker [4.5+] Alshon Jeffery [4.5], Keenan Allen [4.5+], and Anquan Boldin [sun dial] should tell us all we need to know about the NFL. The league would rather select the 6'4 225, 4.34, 38", 10'07, 6.73 Tyrone Calico from Middle Tenn St 27 spots ahead of Eric Decker despite him not being able tobreak 610 yards or 5 TDs as a junior or senior against small school competition. I swear that sounds like a player I'd wanna make up in Madden or would see on Key & Peele [including the measurables where you push them jussst to the point of almost being illegal, like a driver that the PGA won't let Jon Daly hit with]. :lol:

    Was Troy Williamson really a bust?... or did the league simply ignore the damning signs that they otherwise wouldn't because they were too lost in his crazy measurables [6'2 205, 4.32, 41.5, 4.00 shuttle] in Heyward-Bey fashion? Ditto for Buster Davis, AJ Jenkins, and Ginn. Was Matt Jones really a bust with Jax's 21st pick?... or was the league too mesmerized by his insane measurables [6'6, 242, 4.37, 39.5, 10'09] to notice the bad that what would prevent him from being a great pro?

    If 6'3 210 4.52 Brian Robiskie [36th pick]... and 6'4 220 4.62 Dwayne Jarrett [45th]... and 6'2 210 4.60 Massaquoi [50th pick]... and 6'4 215 4.5 Limas Sweed [53rd] ran a 4.4 and under, would they have still lasted till the 2nd round? Would they still be NFL busts? I think the NFL got burnt by the physically large 4.55+ receivers like Reggie Williams, Mike Williams, and Michael Clayton [lsu] flopping as top 15 picks, as well as the good-sized 4.5+ guys like Rashaun Woods & Bryant Johnson flopping as middle to late 1st rounders. I mean, these were guys who looked to be the most talented college receivers in the country, yet they didn't translate to the NFL at 4.5+ speed. So if they couldn't do it, then why would NFL teams have confidence that a Keenan Allen or Eric Decker for instance would? Outside of the aforementioned five 4.5+ receivers who busted, I think the only other 4.5+ receivers drafted in R1 the past 10 years were Dez [who doesn't play 4.5+], Hakeem Nicks, DeAndre Hopkins, and Kelvin Benjamin. Benjamin is a monster; Dez is an elite athlete; Nicks had elite hands, great feet, athleticism, elusiveness, and jump ball ability; Hopkins has elite hands, great feet, and great jump ball ability. So that's what, a 56% bust rate for 1st round 4.5+ receivers.

    If you think about it, there's been plenty of guys who couldn't cut it in the NFL simply because they weren't fast enough. Conversely, I don't think I've ever heard of a player failing in the NFL because he was too fast. I guess, in actuary-fashion, if you were to limit your receivers & corners to sub 4.5 then you're essentially eliminating the risk of busting due to inadequate speed. They might bust for other reasons, but at least speed is eliminated from the list. Granted, we don't know what Strong's times are yet so it could all be a moot point.

    You know what I'm gonna do sometime soon for fun. I'm gonna average out the height, weight, speed, cone, shuttle, vertical of the past 10 year's 1st rounders.... and maybe also do it for 2nd & 3rd rounders. Plus perhaps group them into 4.5+, 4.5-, and 4.4- and figure out the average NFL season for each group. I wonder what the current height/weight/speed/etc average is for the top 20 receivers in the NFL, or what the percentages are for 4.5+, 4.5-, and 4.4-. I might do that too for fun.
     
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  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Hey, you know I love addressing those situational issues and seeing their stats.

    Before we move on, what emotion does Lamar Miller's 4.47 YPC on 1st down elicit? [I omitted his 97 yard TD run for better accuracy]

    .... and, do you think it could be good enough behind a healthy line that has Franklin or Iupati added to it to not target Gordon?.... Or, do you think a healthy line that has Franklin or Iupati added to it would make you want to target Gordon even more?
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    As for Jaelen Strong's speed, I've done a fair amount of work here but it still hinges a little bit on what certain defenders run. I'd be surprised if it's anything above the low 4.5's though. And it could even be into the 4.4's. Deceptive speed.

    What matters to me though is he shows the ability to get open vertically. DeVante Parker hasn't shown that IMO.

    Based on the catches I have seen, I think Jaelen Strong's hands and high catch ability are about as good as you get. He's had some incredible catches that way.
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    If Miami ran a Coryell influenced offense I wouldn't be worrying about it, but that whole 12 yards and under thing seems like a potential sticking point. Wouldn't the ability over this range have to be a prerequisite that's first satisfied before looking at what the receiver does downfield? Wasn't that one of the reasons Philly drafted Matthews? -because they wanted more out of the Z position than what Cooper's one-dimensional downfield ability provided? Concerns about Jaelen's long speed and ball skills downfield never crossed my mind, as I have little doubt that he'll contribute there. It's the short and intermediate stuff that has my attention.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Interesting. I haven't really been led to question his ability in short spaces, because of that big body of his, his hands, and the smooth RAC ability. I think it's a plus. Overall I considered the versatility of his routes to be a pretty big plus for him as he seems to be able to get open on everything. The biggest question mark for me is whether he can hurt with speed deep, because even though he did it in college that doesn't mean he can do it as a pro especially if he does run in the 4.55+ range (which would surprise me).
     
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  37. DenverDolfan

    DenverDolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    CK - Just curious what your thoughts are on Rashard Higgins. I know he's just a sophomore, but I have season tickets to CSU and he is the most talented player I've seen there. Also any thoughts on Sambrailo as a possible solution along our line? Nursed an injury early this year, but projected as a late first round early second round pick. Thanks.
     
  38. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Another plus for drafting Gordon outside of his play making ability, is the RB's ability to make plays independent of the QB. Unlike a WR whose production is a combination of talent, chemistry, etc.. between himself and his QB, the RB can just operate with his line.
     
  39. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    I like Gordon but I don't feel like the RB talent in this draft is really that far off. Lots of talented runners is Melvin Gordon that much better than someone like Tevin Coleman, Mike Davis, Duke Williams, Cobb, Gurley?
     
  40. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    I think so.

    Those guys are all good or can be good but Gordon has a great chance to be special.
     
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