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Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MAFishFan, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Brian Dawkins thoughts echo mine -

     
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Of course Jackson has motivation not to be labeled as someone who reported it.

    But beyond that I think the original story was that Jackson gave it to the equipment manager who notified Grigson.
     
  3. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    I knew it, you son of a...
     
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  4. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    I'm surprised Devilfan13's link to fumble analysis by Sharp Football hasn't gotten more attention by this board. It's also been making the rounds in non-football sites.

    For me, this issue is about about ball-control, middle-of-field passing offense in the northeast; and not about a QB grip on the ball. NE's ability to hold onto the ball as gone off the charts since they've moved on from the explosive Randy Moss offense. One would think current offense provides lots more opportunities for defenders to dislodge the ball.

    Another aspect not covered is deflected passes, which is generally a weakness for a middle-of-the-field passing game. Interestingly, Belichick became known as defense guru by defeating the pass happy 49ers & Bills by flooding the middle of the field with pass defenders, while his current team has rarely had opposing defenses achieve similar success.

    Overall, I think this issue falls within how NFL regulated Lester Hayes's Stick-um and cleats/playing field. Hayes's league-leading stats led to banning of the substance that was thought to give him an unfair advantage. The league also sets standards to avoid unfair playing advantages, which I assume the league did when they decided that a football should be inflated between ~80-90% of its maximum capacity. To use a football at ~60-65% of its maximum would be similar to a team altering their field and using spikes beyond the maximum spec to obtain better footing than an opponent.

    Finally, I think the focused needs to be on the NFL. Either their range for football inflation is hogwash or their spec was created to prevent unfair playing advantage. The NFL should be loudly defending their rules and it does not seem hard to communicate how they will address for the Super Bowl and how they will investigate after the season. Their lack of communication has deflated my interest in the Super Bowl, which I initially wanted to see the Patriots beat the Seahawks.
     
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  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member


    Jw, I also don't think the issue is about deflating the ball, but about the pasties culture of skirting the rules... If this was the first thing, then Brady says I like them a little lower in pressure and perhaps the equipment guy does that for me, the organization gets a little slap and it's over...but the amount of air in the ball IS a big issue, as multiple former players have attested to in the media.


    There simply have been too many innuendos or whispers in league circles about the pasties pushing the limit of the rules. From doctoring footballs to spygate to jamming radio waves near the stadium to interfere with the opposing QB communication equipment. It's now a trend with them, even IF other teams QBs have done/are doctoring balls to where they like them. Naturally, a guy that is still in the league isn't going to say anything because he may want to speak with BB about a job in his near future. Now Marty Hurney has come out and expressed issues with the pasties...

    I think the reaction of former players, now in the media, to both BB and Tom Terrrific's press comments about this issue raise even more suspicions about the pasties... It's been reported that the balls were somewhere in between 11 and 12 PSI, which is illegal. It's also been proven scientifically that they wouldn't lose that much pressure (if they in fact were at 12.5 psi before the game) due to the air temp of that game (near 50 degrees). Brady stated he felt NO difference in the balls between the first half (when they were under inflated) and the second half when they were re-inflated to the correct PSI. How is that possible for an elite QB to NOT feel that difference ?? And as for BB, I can't buy that a guy who's MO is micro-managing and attention to detail that he wouldn't know the procedure of how the balls were handled before the game... The problem is that now their integrity is in question even more than if they'd have said 'Hey, I like them at 12 pds and our guys know that'.


    On top of all this, is the league...Now it appears they had some suspicions themselves and had planned to check the PSI at half time. Well, why ?? Were the ball recheck after the game ended ?? Why haven't they talked with BB and Brady yet ??

    This, to me, is starting to look like it's going to be swept under the rug again (destroy the tapes, ever heard that before) and Kraft will still be whispering in Goodell's ears come next season... Or, or if the NFL does feel they are guilty of wrong-doing, it'll be released after the SB and everyone of us will be asking "Why not before the SB?".... Too much we don't know here and too much that we DO know...
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I watched a scientific experiment where they inflated a football to 13.3 psi, then submerged it in 50 degree water, and you could watch the psi drop on the instruments that they had hooked up to the football. In about 5 minutes it was well below 12.5 psi. Now, I understand that the footballs weren't submerged in water in the game, but they were wet, and it was cold, and I do wonder what the effect would be if the balls were filled to 12.5psi in a hot room, using hot air, and then put out in rainy, cold weather.
     
  7. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    If this was the case, why didn't the Colts' footballs experience a corresponding impact by halftime?
     
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  8. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    The Colts balls must have had some weather proof magic then.

    Or...

    Come on now, res.
     
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  9. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I have the same questions, guys. I was merely posting something I saw today, that disputes, on some level, the idea that it's "scientifically impossible" for the balls to deflate that much. In the comments on the video I watched, I did ask why the Colts balls weren't deflated also.
     
  11. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    I am shocked the NFL has not communicated the following:
    1. Due to the Patriots violation of the ball inflation rule, the NFL will takeover possession of footballs for the Super Bowl.
    2. Assign an investigation head (which pushes investigation into the off-season, while quieting making each Patriot sign a document to compel testimony and potential penalties for untruthfulness and destruction of evidence.

    I forgot about the destruction of the tapes and that doesn't look good against the information publicly released Saints and Dolphins investigation. Moreover, the deflated ball falls exclusively within NFL laws, while Dolphins investigation ventured into area that state employment law typically handles. The league was quite transparent with personal phone records and labeling individuals as uncooperative. If this was handled by state authorities, I doubt the public would know the details; employees would not be blackballed from their profession; and the employer would bear the financial burden for actions of their employees.

    Initially, I was not bothered too much by this issue, but the NFL's handling of it has become unacceptable. If they do not treat it as they did with announcing the Wells Report, I will not watch the Super Bowl.
     
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  12. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What I find interesting is that the colts equipment manager noticed the ball being deflated, one ball he touched boom.
    The pats 11 balls and nobody noticed anything wrong.
     
  13. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Actually, there is a different procedure for handling of balls for the Super Bowl...I either read or heard it, check that...I think it was Shefter that said there is a different procedure for the SB...I didn't pay too much attention, but I agree with you on that...

    The NFL league office is pretty shell-shocked right now... My hope is that they are doing their due diligence, but when Brady said he had not been contacted by the league yesterday, I was floored, especially since he'd be right there in the middle of this. Maybe, as Skippy Bay-at-the-moon just said, they are being more cautious with what they release and don't release... When you add in the disingenuous appearing PCs by both BB and Tom Terrific...wow...the court of public opinion is running wild... If they find that there were was no wrong doing, it'll be worse on them than the whole Ray Rice thing, or Saints thing...

    I think the question most of us will have, when all is said and done, what is (assuming they are found guilty) the punishment going to be and will it be severe enough...I mean, gaining an unfair advantage by doctoring the balls is as bad as Gregg Williams bounties... But, as I've always felt, this is the NPL (National Patriots League) and Kraft is arguably the most influential owner. If Goodell goes too hard on his team, his position as Commissioner becomes as tenuous as it can be and still be employed by the league...
     
  14. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol....#flexball
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    there is a report that brady addressed the whole team and assured them there was no funny business...man, how could he do that if he's lying, what if this is just one big mistake..IdK anymore what to think.
     
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  17. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, lying to the media/general public is one thing...I can't believe he would go to his team and do that.
     
  19. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    I'm sure Goodell will mete out a tersely worded letter to the Pats then destroy the evidence. The end.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It all started as far as I am concerned, with that bull crap tuck rule call against the Raiders. The Raiders (whom I've never liked at all) got jobbed on that reversal. We could all see what Brady was doing before he fumbled, and whatever it was he was not tucking the ball. In the season after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, we could not have a team called the Raiders beating a team called the Patriots.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I remember that. However, I do not remember " a draft pick taken for tampering with the phins when he went to indy."
     
  22. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    After the 1969 season, Joe Robbie signed Shula to a contract as the new HC. As a result of Shula's signing, the Dolphins were charged with tampering by the NFL. The League forced the Dolphins to give their 1971 first round pick to the Colts as a result.

    The Colts selected Don McCauley, a RB, with the 22nd overall pick from the Dolphins. McCauley was the 1971 ACC Athlete of the Year and played 11 seasons for the Colts.
     
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  23. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    We're all forgetting someone. Are we sure this person didn't sneak in and deflate them? -

    [​IMG]

    (I still can't believe this actually happened. 1 Million People and THAT is the millionth?! Somebody with divine powers does not like the Patriots. I still wonder if it was like an automated program, or if a human actually sent that out.)
     
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  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The effect would be the same as it was on the Colts' balls, which checked out fine.

    Further, they inflated the balls to specification at haltime, and at the end of the game, they measured within the acceptable range.
     
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  25. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    People keep trying to offer a "natural" explanation for the deflation, but they keep forgetting that "nature" apparently didn't do the same thing to the Colts' footballs.

    I find it difficult to believe that anyone who saw or heard Brady's press conference still has any doubt that they deflated the footballs intentionally. That was not a man who was comfortable at all; that was a man who was lying and was caught totally unprepared for the situation.
     
  26. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wouldn't using magic count as cheating? The Patriots are the real victims here!
     
  27. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    The funniest concept is that there would be this "rogue" equipment kid who took it upon himself...without any direction from anyone in the Patriot organization...and took air out of these gameballs on his own. Knowing the precise weight that Brady likes the football through ESP and did this single handily without anyone in the ENTIRE organization from top to bottom knowing anything about it. Plus not to do it just once...but several games. Yes...very believable..
     
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  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Instant loophole.

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Has anyone saysr that the Colts balls didn't deflate? Or just that they were still within the psi range when tested? What if Luck likes his balls over inflated, and so they still were within the range? A Boston College professor had give on record as saying that balls filled in an 80 degree room to 12.5 psi, then out in wet, 50 degree weather, would easily be down to 10.5psi. He also claims to be a Bills fan. Take that stuff however you want.
     
  30. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    The greatest thing about this is now not only does Belicheat cement his legacy as a known cheater, but now Brady will also go down as a cheater. The 2 most important pieces of the Patsie dynasty will have their entire legacies tarnished. I love it.
     
  32. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Yea, I agree, legacy tarnished forever. Classless Organization. Deserves all the ridicule they get. Bunch of cheaters.
     
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  33. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Couldnt agree more. The one thing I fear through all this though is the league saying that after they did a thorough investigation theres no conclusive evidence as to who exactly did this and they believe Belichick and Brady had no knoweledge of it. Dont think thats possible? Think again , we come to realize that with the Patriots anything is possible. The NFL is already dragging their feet with this to allow their babies to play nice in the super bowl.
     
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  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Pretty damning evidence:

    [​IMG]

    The difference between NE and the second best team is larger than the difference between 2 and 32.
     
  35. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Yup, at this point, as a fan of the NFL, im just gonna assume they are always cheating. I mean why should we give them the benefit of the doubt anymore?
     
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  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Just a coincidence I suppose:

    [​IMG]
     
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  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    More coincidence:

    [​IMG]
     
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  38. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Thanks Stringer, i'm sure the backers of NE who believe that the deflation of the ball isn't a big deal will tell you a bunch of reasons why those statistics dont matter. But they do. It's harder to punch out a deflated ball then it is at the standard NFL PSI levels.
     
  39. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Weird how they fumbled more during their Super Bowl years (although spygate was going on so they just had another method to gain an advantage against NFL rules, but still).

    However, the NFL allowed teams to bring their own footballs starting in 2006. And then in 2007 it shifted (though that team was dominant, no matter what was in the balls...but the fact that it has continued is very strange). Maybe they're just really good at holding onto the ball...but it seems odd considering the other 31 teams are pretty much lumped together closely, with the 2nd place team being close to the 32nd team. Not to mention all the different running backs they've had. They're all awesome at holding onto the ball?

    It all seems odd, I mean its not the reason for their success and they still would've won the AFC East every year except 2008, but maybe if they have been doing it for years it has had an impact on a few close games over the years.

    People argue it isn't a big deal to let a tiny amount of air out, maybe it isn't, but why would they bother doing it then? Especially after Spygate, why risk breaking another NFL rule (a less serious one, but still a rule) if it made absolutely no impact? The Patriots/Brady/Whoever at least felt it made an impact to waste the time to do it. And the NFL feels it makes an impact to have a rule about it. Actually, all sports leagues I think have rules about it. I know for a fact its easier to kick a soccer ball with a little less air in it (not too much or it could make it worse), as you get more power in the shot.
     
  40. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    This alone is evidence enough that they have been cheating all along. I wonder what the chances are that the league even sees this chart.
     
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