Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

Winning every regular season game(many in blow-out fashion & probably continuously cheating) and then losing the last & most important game in front of the world is the opposite of turning out great. Hopefully karma pays them another visit.

 

...and this Bill says:

 

Cheatriots are known cheaters. Another day in the office for them. **** the Cheatriots.

 

In true Serial fashion (if you haven't listened to the podcast, suggest checking it out) let's recap "what we know". It's helpful to do when you get to this stage and there is information overload.

- 11 out of 12 Patriots footballs were illegal. Deflated approx. 16% less than the lowest acceptable legal level of 12.5 psi.
- The Colts footballs were legal.
- There is evidence this isn't the first time the Patriots have played with soft balls. The league was aware of it before the title game. In fact they were ready for it. This point is particularly important, because if you're going to buy into the opposing viewpoint, you have to accept that this was a one time phenomena related to weather and atmospheric conditions, and also ignore the mounting evidence that this isn't the first time. And you also have to accept it's just a mere coincidence that the league was aware of Patriots using soft balls and on the day they planned to catch them red handed, freak science caused 11 out of 12 balls to be illegal.
- There are conflicting scientific studies about whether or not the balls could have deflated from 12.5 to 16% less than legal levels. A recent study suggests that the balls would have to have been inflated in 90 degree weather for this to have any reasonable chance of having occurred.
- Studies show that since the rule change in 2007 allowing visiting teams to use their own balls, the Patriots have gained an uncanny advantage in fumbles / play. A nearly statistically impossible advantage. Suggesting that playing with soft balls has indeed given them a statistical advantage. In other words: MOTIVE.
- Both Patriots head coach Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady have denied wrong doing. Suggesting conspiracy, freak event, science, rogue equipment guy, ball boy, etc. as only explanation of illegal balls.
- Bill Belichick has been found guilty and punished for cheating in this league before.

So where does all of this leave us? Two explanations -

The Patriots, namely Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are innocent of cheating. Meaning either highly unlikely atmospheric and weather conditions caused their balls to be deflated to an illegal level while the Colts balls were legal, or they were framed by a "hater", or a rogue equipment guy did it. You also have to discount all evidence and reports that this isn't the first time they've played with soft balls, and ignore the statistical anomaly of fumbles per play.

or

The Patriots, an organization that has cheated once, has cheated again. They deflated balls to gain a competitive advantage.

History tells us that the simplest explanation is most often the truth of the matter. But for those of you defending the Patriots, it would be nice if you could explain the entirety of the thing, instead of just picking one or 2 points to defend them on, while ignoring the rest. Most of you defending the Patriots are completely ignoring the fact that there is a mounting pile of evidence suggesting they have been playing with soft balls for quite awhile now.

 

What's funny is I just read a report on Bill Nye speaking on this whole debacle on PFT.com

 

So the NFL new about this and planned on catching then on this very day and this very game? Where is this reported? Where is the evidence they have been playing with soft balls for awhile?

I just want to know who Gooddell should fire for knowing for a while the Patriots were cheating and did nothing about it. If what your claiming is true and the "NFL Sting" was supposed to go down during the NFL AFC Championship, this should be easy to explain by the league forthcoming.

 

Go back and look through the thread. Some pretty good posts. Probably answer 100% of your questions.

 

Yeah, I'm done watching Pats games. That includes this Superbowl.

 

And..... even IF Brady & Belichick were framed, Brady SHOULD HAVE realized the moment the balls touched his hands [pun intended] that they were under-inflated and thus should be examined for his own protection to avoid a rule violation and potential calamity like the one he's currently in, just as Brady's INT ball was noticed the moment is was brought to the sideline.

Brady touched every Patriot ball on that field [pun intended], repeatedly [pun intended], but he didn't notice it with his bare hand? yeah right. He can't claim ignorance, sorry. The moment he decided to continue throwing with these beneficially under-inflated balls rather than brining it to the ref's attention, he became complicit.

 

Not sure anyone noticed, but Bill Belichick explicitly said the balls were not inflated in a heated room in that press conference (from 9:15-9:35 in the video), so that potential explanation is out:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/bill-belichick-dropped-physics-knowledge-in-surreal-press-conference

 

1. Why is it unreasonable to assume that the Pats pumped up the balls in a room heated to 90-100 degrees? It's fairly easy to heat a room to that temp.

2. Why is it unreasonable to expect the multiple refs who handled the balls after every play to realize they were soft? I mean, if they're so obvious and everything. If a QB is on the field, and the balls he's being given by refs are soft, and he likes them that way, why should he say anything? I don't think he should. Just like Aaron Rodgers tries to get over-inflated balls through the check to use in games.

 

Here is a video that starts to deal with things that Sports Science could have dealt with to make their experiment more useful. To me, "grip" should be about more than how far can one person indent a football and use an equation from there, but it should also have to do with how well someone holds onto the ball under certain conditions, and how the surface area of the ball is affected by the lower pressure.

This video also deals with the idea of deflation making it easier for a QB to control and put more spin on the ball. I think the guy in the video is confused about the number of RPM's (5400 and 7200 are really high and are measurements of hard drive RPM's, not football RPM's as far as I know), but the higher RPM's could affect the distance and accuracy of a throw. As far as I know, the second half of the Sports Science experiment was done theoretically and without any variables such as RPM's and rain/cold on the ball.

To be clear, the man in this video isn't a scientist; he works at a sporting goods manufacturer. They do make and test footballs, so he knows some things. Still, I'm not claiming this is a science experiment that is conducted perfectly and that it solves the matter. It does show some possibilities for directions that another experiment could explore.

[video=youtube;8cx8yRluaHg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cx8yRluaHg[/video]

 

1. Belichick claimed that inflation of the balls in a heated room is something that "didn't happen."

2. Refs have a pretty fast-moving, stressful job, IMO. They have to get the ball into position and then get themselves into position. If they're going to stop the game and check the ball, they need to have a pretty good reason.

2b. IMO, Rodgers should reconsider his preference. His receivers drop a lot of passes. Look at the game against Seattle. Aikman and Buck blamed all the drops on Rodgers, instead of the receivers (which I found funny), but balls were hitting them on the hands and hitting the ground pretty frequently. The craziest Rodgers game as far as drops has to be the Super Bowl win against the Steelers a few years back. His guys dropped pass after pass before getting it together. I can't say for sure this is because of a hyperinflated ball, but if Rodgers is operating outside of the rules on a regular basis, that should be corrected. I say this as someone who feels Rodgers is the best QB in the game by far, and will retire as the best QB of the 2000's and beyond.

 

The refs job is to make sure that the game is played by the rules, correct? If the balls were so soft that people are expecting Brady to immediately notice it, then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect one of the two or three refs touching the ball after every play to notice it also.

I didn't know BB said there was no heated room, I didn't see all the pressers. However, if we are comfortable calling him a liar about not knowing of any tampering, why couldn't he simply be lying about a heated room? Why is that where we take him at his word?

 

So the Pats are using their saunas to pump up football's? Lmao

TB12 can say he didn't notice, but im not stupid, its his command that the balls be deflated. Dont take a genius to realize it.

 

He may be lying about everything. You are correct there. If they inflated the balls in a heated room, IMO, they were cheating. You seem to be more concerned with the method that deflated the footballs. If the Patriots adjusted their method in order to get footballs illegally deflated by the atmospheric conditions alone, they were cheating. The rule book doesn't have an exception for natural causes.

The refs are supposed to make sure the game is played by the rules, but the inflation of the ball isn't too high on many people's lists. Maybe it will be from now on.

 

Seriously?!? Why the **** would they have a room heated to 90-100 degrees to inflate footballs in? What would be the purpose of any room in their facility heated to that? I mean, come on... why is it unreasonable? Really?!

 

The strangest thing of all is why are dolphin fans reaching so hard to defend a division rival? Let alone a division rival that has already been found guilty of cheating once.

 

[video=youtube;3RGRyTGUbv4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RGRyTGUbv4[/video]

 

I live in a city of transplants and therefore I know a lot of Patriots' fans. We give each other the business about football a lot, and we enjoy doing it. Not one of them has gone to such great lengths to explain or defend this.

 

I was thinking same thing... Why any room would be heated to that level (72 degrees is normal room temp) then I thought ok, maybe a sauna, but then I thought, why the **** would they use their sauna for pumping footballs lmao talk about reaching for an excuse.

 

That is the difference between Miami and New England. Miami has class and they are easy to root for and NE is a bunch of scumbags. I am not watching the SB. I hate Seattle to lol.

 

So why would they create a 90-100 degree room? In order to deflate footballs? Maybe because they realize that in cold weather they will deflate enough to give them an unfair advantage? Even if what you suggest is true, it's still cheating.

 

Lol "Hes a 3 time SB champion, 6 times if you include the losses"

 

The refs aren't grabbing the balls in nearly the same manner in which Brady, his center, running backs, and receivers do. The balls are in and out of their hands pretty quickly, and there's no need for them to squeeze it during their routine. They're too preoccupied with actually getting into position quickly and getting prepared to watch the play, count the players, check out alignments, etc to notice a ball's inflation which can really only be noticed if it's squeezed. I mean, it's not like the ball is ACTUALLY deflated. Brady on the other hand is constantly gripping the ball and feeling for laces. The center is squeezing it for a moment of time and worrying about making sure he can get it to his QB without botching it. The running back is squeezing the hell out of it to keep it secure. The receivers/tight ends are trying to clamp down on throws and then secure them firmly as well. Refs aren't preoccupied with that stuff.

 

Is it cheating? Is there a rule stating what the factors need to be when pumping up a ball? What if the game is being held in Arizona...should the balls have to be pumped up indoors in air conditioning, not outside in the heat?

I get that we all dislike NE, but I feel like people are reaching on this.

Further, I'm not saying that they would have a room at 90 degrees for any reason other than to inflate balls, allowing for them to follow nature's course, and deflate quickly in cold weather. There is zero evidence that I've heard that indicate that anyone was known to actually tamper with the balls after the check. Makes more sense to me that something occurred with the balls inflated in a hot room. Plausible deniability, and all that.

What's the old saying, "Obeying the letter of the law..."

 

Here are the facts.

The Patriots are proven cheaters.
11 of their 12 game balls in the AFCC game were under-inflated.
Under-inflated footballs are easier to hold, catch, and throw.
In 2006 Brady was the person who spearheaded the new rule change of how footballs are prepared etc for each game.
He is also on record as saying that he prefers less air in the balls he uses.
Since 2007 the Patriots turn-over ratio is off the charts good. So good, in fact, that statistically it shouldn't be possible.
None of the Colts footballs, not one, was under-inflated.

Occam's Razor people...If it walks like a duck...

 

Shhhhhh. Shh. Shhh. Shh.

They still won the games, therefore there wasn't cheating.

Nothing to see here.

 

ONCE MORE!

Two scientists say that "deflate-gate" isn't entirely hot air.
"Deflating the ball does give a team an advantage," says materials scientist Ainissa Ramirez, the author of Newton's Football, a book about the science of football. Ramirez says the slightly softer football improves the grip.
"Particularly during that game which was very rainy, it's hard to hold the ball, it's hard to catch the ball," she says. "So by making it a little softer, it's easier to catch the ball."
John Eric Goff, a physicist at Lynchburg College in Virginia and author of Gold Medal Physics, agrees. However, underinflating a ball also carries a slight disadvantage:
"If you reduce the mass of the ball, which happens if you let a little bit of air out, the ball can decelerate faster when you throw it," he says. And that means it won't go as far on each throw.
On balance, Ramirez and Goff agree, grippiness trumps the mass problem.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...nt-all-hot-air

 

So your argument is that it's unreasonable to expect the refs to squeeze the ball? I have yet see any of these arguments provide a valid reason why the refs couldn't detect this. I'm not asking for the refs to weigh the balls after every play, but if it's as easy to detect as the talking heads are saying, a squeeze of the ball should make it blatantly apparent to the refs. Literally a second is all it should take.

I still don't see why Brady should say anything if the ball he's given is softer than normal, and he likes that way.

 

Should I go post all the "scientists" that have come out and said Deflategate was all from natural causes?

 

Wasn't it Manning who lead that charge?

 

C'mon res. Denial can't be running that deep.

Someone definitely is reaching here, even in the face of what the piles of evidence suggest.

 

Sure. But you can leave out the physics prof from Boston U... His numbers are wrong. And be sure to include the ones who say that there was no way, unless the balls were heated in a 90+ degree room, that they lost that much pressure naturally.

 

Can anyone give the numbers on the Colts balls? Numbers from pre game check, and numbers from halftime check? We really need those numbers to see what the Patriots numbers look like in correlation. Do we know the initial Patriots numbers?

 

I think he was a part of it, but Brady was the leader of wanting the rule changed.

 

If they also cover the natural causes that prevented the Colts footballs to remain inflated throughout the game, then yes. Please, by all means post these.

 

But isn't that the point? If the balls were inflated, despite BB saying otherwise, in a heated room, it is possible.

 

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady has long wanted control over the footballs he throws, to the point where he was the driving force behind a rules change that allowed visiting teams to provide their own footballs, rather than having both teams use footballs provided by the home team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/