Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

To me, he can't really lie about a heated room not existing, because such a room would be easy to find during an investigation. Maybe Belichick is so arrogant that he doesn't care, but I think he is smarter than that.

 

You do realize a "heated room" is simply a room with a thermostat in it. You turn the thermostat to 90 at 8am on gameday, come back at noon to inflate your balls, then turn the thermostat back down. You don't need some sort of special equipment or special room.

Regardless, I don't think the NFL will find anything, and all this angst and hand-wringing will be for naught.

 

No, I didn't know that. Thanks. Boy, do I feel stupid.

You're going to make everybody in the facility suffer for several hours to get your balls the way you want. Or you're going to have a separate room, as many schools with wrestling teams have rooms with temperature and humidity control.

For this to work, there would have to be an area that would be devoid of people with its own separate climate control for hours leading up to game time, or you would have an employee or former employee noticing something and admitting it to the investigation.

I agree that the NFL won't find anything and won't do anything. I also didn't need to undergo any special mental gymnastics to get there.

 

"Things that make you go hmmm"

Why indeed.

 

They can say it, but do they mean it? I once read that a person while lying often says the on thing, but your head movement disagrees. With regard to that, Bradys press conference is hillarious.

mouth: I feel I always played within the rules
head:
mouth: I believe in fair play and respect the league
head:
mouth: they are tryinig to create a very competitve playing field for all of us
head:
mouth: I believe in fair play
head:
mouth: I was surprised as anybody
head:
mouth: I'm very comfortable saying this (no wrongdoings)
head:

But when he says he wants to prepare for Seattle, he does this

 

It would have been so easy for Brady to come out and say "I like the ball a little light, but I have always sought to play within the rules. I didn't realize the footballs for this particular game were underinflated, and I am sorry about that."

That could have been the end of that. Instead, we get a strange variation of "I am not a crook," followed by a science lesson from a football coach. Brady himself said "this isn't Isis; this is football." Why couldn't he come out and say some variation of those simple sentences I wrote above? It's not that complicated.

 

Nobody goes through the length of justification and explanation he went through when they're telling the truth.

 

We are 35 pages in and fact remains that Pats are still cheaters with no integrity for the game. Simple as that. I wasnt surprised when the story first broke when it was discovered more then likely the Pats cheated, and im not surprised today under the realization that more then likely the NFL won't do anything about it. If it was us, we would of lost 2 first round picks, our GM, HC, and QB would all be suspended and we would be under a 5 year probation.

 

I don't think massaging the balls causes them to lose any pressure. The purpose of the prep is to make them less slippery and the leather softer. Squeezing the football isn't going to push air out of it. at most it may stretch it a bit, but so little that the psi won't change.

 

We are in this whole Pats BS for 13 years now and they still have their believers. So it doesn't seem to be that simple for all of us.

 

Our fans believing they aren't cheaters, what kind of hypnosis were they put under. Now im just waiting for the "Go Pats!" next sunday.

 

We need to stop questioning people's fandom just because they believe the Pats are innocent.

First of all, it cheapens the stance that they are cheaters because it makes it sound like we only believe they are because they are hated division rivals. In reality we believe it because...facts dictate we do, not allegiances.

It has nothing to do with fandom.

It does however, have to do with logic and reason.

Those dictate they cheated. For every bit of "science" that says it has no effect, there's bits of "science" to say it does. For every player that says it has no effect, there's players that say it does. That means AT BEST, its inconclusive if it helped on those fronts.

It is very conclusive that the Patriots have dramatically improved their fumble rates after the rule change. An improvement that falls WELL OUTSIDE of realistic levels.

When you couple that with the common sense realization that they wouldn't have risked punishment for something that has no effect, then I'm not sure how at this point anyone can defend them.

And all of that is BEFORE you factor in that they ARE KNOWN CHEATERS. And how we know they deflated the balls and video taped other teams...so what else are they doing?

 

I'm just coming at this from kind of a legal perspective, I guess. There's tons of circumstantial evidence, but there's no smoking gun. No hard, substantiated proof of anyone doing anything illegal to tamper with the balls. If that somehow makes me less of a fan, and the last 25 years of me rooting for the Dolphins don't exist, then I guess you got me.

 

Yeah, I guess I'm the idiot who believes that multi-million dollar facilities don't have climate control systems, that would allow one room to be heated without affecting the rest of the facility. Heck, the furnace room at my old high school was always at least 20 degrees warmer than the rest of the building, just by the nature of the heading system.

 

The smoking gun is that the 11 of 12 balls were all deflated to the exact same amount while the Colts had zero. That's the smoking gun.

You're looking for motive, and for that, you need to believe deflating the balls that much makes a difference. But I say it doesn't matter if you believe if it makes a difference or not, the Pats obviously did, and they knowingly deflated the balls AGAINST regulations to gain an advantage, even if that advantage was perceived and not actual.

 

There's the real question. The sad thing about this - although they have been busted cold cheating again, I believe they are up to far worse and this is probably the lesser of the evil they are up to. When the majority of football fans watched the Patriots this year, they saw a team that struggled at the beginning of the season and then "overcame adversity" to get things right to go on a great streak. What I saw is a team that is so hyper focused on winning that probably resorted to all sorts of things beyond the rules to get things turned around. At times earlier this season Brady looked confused and lost. Like an over the hill quarterback. Down the stretch in most of these games he seemed to know exactly where and when the defense was going to be on every play. The difference is uncanny. Like the fumbles, statistically impossible. Leads me to believe they are capturing defensive plays / signals again. How? There's the million dollar question. As I've always said, I hope I live to see everything come out and see Belicheat banished from the league. The damage he is doing to the game by being allowed to continue is devastating.

 

Again, do you know what the measurements were for the Colts balls prior to the game, and at half time? If not, there is no point comparing the Patriots balls to them, as you have no idea if those balls also experienced variance from the initial check.

 

Or Brady looked lost due to his abysmal oline at the beginning of the season.

The simple explanation is usually the best.

 

So then your theory is that temperature changed the balls and it did it to all the balls, but someone pumped up 1 Patriot ball and all 12 Colts balls back to regulation?

Cause by what you're saying that's what you'd HAVE to believe. There is no other option based on your argument.

 

Says the guy who is doing handstands to show how anything but the most simplest of explanations is behind 11 illegal footballs.

Also, cheating is a far more simple explanation than the offensive line magically gelling into an unstoppable unit in the span of 2 - 3 games.

 

Well since Belichick is telling the truth, the balls were never put in a room 20 degrees warmer than the rest of the building. From his transcript:
"BB: I just said that and I said that at no time was the football ever put in any type of heated environment."

A room 20 degrees warmer than the rest of the building would constitute a heated environment. I don't understand the defense of they didn't cheat, they didn't do anything wrong, but now Belichick is lieing about it.

 

You said "it doesn't require a special room," but you're describing special rooms. I assumed the existence of such rooms from the beginning. I also assumed that it would be stupid for Belichick to lie about something like this because the investigation is going to look for the furnace room, so to speak. Still, this whole line of conversation is convoluted. I don't think Belichick was lying about this because it makes him seem like a mad scientist of football. This is the caricature of Belichick that I don't believe. Reality is probably a lot simpler.

I posted a video a few posts back of a guy at a sporting goods manufacturer. He held a magical device in his hand that could let the air out of the football while simultaneously letting the user read the air pressure inside the football. This device was small enough to keep in one person's hand, and one could deflate a football in a matter of a few seconds. No special rooms needed; no science lessons needed.

Occam's Razor: Brady paid off a single ball boy (or a series of ball boys over the years) to deflate the balls to his liking. There is almost no way to prove this barring one of them coming forward or someone with video evidence coming forward, so the NFL will not find anything.

 

P.S. I'm hoping that Brady pulled a Jerry Springer and wrote one of the ball boys a check for this, but it's not likely. There's only one Jerry Springer.

 

This made me laugh out loud, coming from you in this thread. It's difficult to get me to laugh out loud. Thanks.

 

This 12th ball, normally inflated, is exactly what I would keep around if I were cheating with the other 11. If play gets stopped, you throw the good ball to the ref and somehow lose the other illegal balls for a few minutes. This is how I would cheat, if I were a cheater.

 

stitch a member here who is a freakin engineer says that it doesn't, but here me out, if you got the ball at 12.5 the minimum the rules allow, and you get a couple hours to play with your balls (it just doesn't get old}, seriously, then I'm sure there are some things that a qb and his eqip people can do in that time frame that will get some air out of the balls without sticking a needle in them..

so if thats true, that there are some ways to massage or slam the ball to get a lb of air per square out of the ball I'm sure he's doing it, now does that make it cheating?

this sounds the most logical to me considering how their taking the stand they are and what their saying in the process, somehow someway brady and co get air out of that ball naturally..

 

It's not hard. I've been saying one thing: there is no evidence of tampering, no matter how much you want there to be. Doesn't mean they didn't, but you can't say definitively that they tampered.

It's funny, BB is a cheater, not to be trusted, except when he says the balls weren't in a heated room to be inflated.

But I'm the idiot. At least I'm being consistent, many people in here are being very hypocritical, and jumping through hoops to try to price something that can't be proved.

Innocent until proven guilty. So far, we have nothing that would convict. We have deflated balls, no explanation for then, and no numbers the Colts balls. I'm sorry I'm not on the cheater/mastermind lynching train.

 

No, not my theory. I don't have a theory. If just like to know the numbers on the Colts balls before making any mite assumptions.

 

So many experts of balls in this thread.

 

Or it should raise just another simple question. Why did their oline look so lost and now it doesn't anymore. How do they improve far more than any other o-line?

 

its cool, I get what your coming from..I think there is intention to get the ball softer then 12.5, but they did it in a way that was not the traditional way one would think, they got the ok that they are allowed to prep their own footballs and they took full advantage of that process, so the intention was bad still, and that intention was to naturally get the ball under 12.5...just my theory.

 

lol..

I learned everything I know about balls from Todd..now thats a man who loves all kinds of balls..big ones, lil ones..hard, soft, you name it.

 

Did they disclose how much was the air pressure in each of the deflated balls? If the measurements were all very similar to one another, it could be evidence of manually deflating the balls. If they were "naturally" deflated as some of you are suggesting, the measurements should be very different from one ball to another, as you wouldn't be able to control the air pressure inside each ball.

 

Your explanation of how the balls got deflated seems like it puts you on the mastermind train.

To me, it's not that hard to understand that other people can have nuances in their thinking. I don't know where this consistency of yours exists, but it isn't something you can expect in the real world, because the real world is complicated. You think BB can only tell the truth, but it's possible he lies when he's talking about inflating footballs in heated rooms? How is that not just the opposite of the supposed mindset you're arguing against?

The tone of your posts suggests that you think others are idiots. For example, "You do realize..." followed by a stunningly simple statement gives me that impression. Maybe I'm wrong for throwing that back at you. It could be my problem.

Taking us through all the rhetorical twists and turns of the "natural causes" deflation argument while stating on another point that "the simplest explanation is the best," isn't something I'd label "consistent," and that's okay. It's comical, coming from the champion of consistency, but it's okay. People have biases. I have biases. Even you have biases.

I hate to break it to you. Okay, I lied. I guess everything else I have ever said is a lie. I must be consistent, after all.

 

But do we know if the colts submitted theirs at 13.5, and when measured at halftime it was 12.5? We don't, do we?

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-...have-been-closer-115-psi?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

It's all conjecture at this point. We don't know if the Colt's balls deflated (well ... damn must resist).

 

No, it just seemed you were implying that you needed a special room to be constructed in order to do this. In reality, any modern structure with a modern heading system would easily be able to accomplish this. The simplest explanation for me, right now, is that the Patriots had balls right at 12.5psi, and through a combination of weathering the balls (like DJ has said) and the temperature, the balls deflated.

 

This is why I have such a problem with people dogmatically saying that the Patriots cheated, and that they should be removed from the Super Bowl, BB should be thrown out of football, and BB and TB should be ineligible for the HoF. It's ludicrous right now to make those assertions.

Like I said like 30 pages ago, tons of confirmation bias going on. Let's let all the facts come to light before we go on this crusade.

 

its grey for sure, and I think thats why there standing and talking, they didn't remove air from the ball by an external device, they somehow do it without sticking an external device in the football, and they chalk it up and justify it as their way of prepping.

 

So like Stitch says, getting under the 12.5 through an external object or with a human being doing it, its still trying to get the ball under the allowed limit.

 

Whatever way it happened, Brady lied.