Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

Correct.

It's like having a shooting victim.
It is important to determine whether the shooting was intentional or accidental to determine the severity of the crime. But, in both cases a crime has occurred.

 

.....and the person that did the shooting has already been convicted of murdering someone else a few years earlier.

 

to pee or not to pee.

 

It's not obtuse. It would confirm: PSI changes because of atmospheric conditions. If we know the Colts tested at 13.5 and then 12.7, than we'd investigate why the Patriots deflated more. Perhaps the Colts kept their balls in the bag in between two heaters, if there were any. Maybe the Patriots kept their balls outside of the bag. But it's not being obtuse, it's a process of elimination. If the Colts PSI didn't change even 0.1 psi it's even more incriminating for the Patriots. It's a key piece of info. If you assume the Colts did not tamper, those are the control.

 

No, all it proves is that it was possible for the balls to remain in legal levels under those weather conditions....which further proves the Pats screwed up.

 

BS. Where did they test the balls at the half? On the field? Inside the same room? How did the Patriots keep the balls during the game? How did the Colts? Were there heaters? It was 50F so there may or may not have been heaters. Were they kept in the bag? Did the Colts dry the ball off while the Pats didn't?

I'm not saying the Pats didn't cheat. I'm saying, you can't say something is Literally impossible at this point, without anything more than 2-3 facts.

 

Yes, it would. But that's not the same as saying it is irrelevant. The Patriots were playing with non-compliant balls. Those are the facts. But it's a big difference between letting them go non-compliant vs. sticking a needle in there and letting air out. Both might be intentional but one is much much worse.

 

OR

- the Pats knew exactly what would happen if the balls were left out in cold, wet weather uncovered, and did nothing to stop nature's course

- and there is plenty of "science" that shows that is possible...you are choosing to ignore it in favor of "science" that says that it is not possible

 

It doesn't answer intent, because as you said, they could have just as easily filled them to the minimum knowing conditions would drop them further and the Colts balls have no bearing on that.

Basically all we're really left with is history and common sense to help us decide what the intent was.

There's the history of their cheating. The history of their fumble numbers. The history of Brady fighting for the rule change. There's the common sense that less air improves grip. There's the common sense that a pro team factors in the weather for the length of their cleats, would probably also factor it in for grip on the ball.

There's really nothing left at this point to say the Pats are innocent. There's no revelation that can happen to exonerate them at this point.

 

Your first part is cheating and makes them guilty. Not sure why you're not understanding that.

And no, there isn't any science that accounts for those conditions.

 

One is tampering. One is maybe skirting the rules. HUGE HUGE difference.

Imagine the morning of the SuperBowl and the NFL announces their findings show the balls deflated because of atmospheric conditions. Meh, ho hum. THere goes the patriots, taking advantage of the rules again.

Now, imagine the morning of the Super Bowl, and that Patriots ball handler has an interview on MSNBC where he declares he's been deflating balls for 7 years. Okay not MSNBC nobody would even know about it, but let's say a rival network.

Huge, huge difference. One is BB being BB. The other is flat out undeniably cheating and tampering. Significant difference between the two.

 

Public perception wise, sure, they are different.

In reality, they are both cheating. If it wasn't then there's no story and no reason for the league to investigate. After all, the balls were ok pre game. If the spirit of the rule doesn't cover the entire duration of the game, then the league wouldn't have checked them again later.

 

They are definitely both cheating if that's what the Patriots wanted to do. But as you know, the league's punishment is guided by public perception now (Ray Rice #2, and AP got the brunt of that blowback).

The other can be explained away by weather. You can't control the weather. Patriots will get a warning etc.

Earlier in the thread, Graham Gano stated he wanted the league to test outside so the balls won't deflate (and possibly fall below the regulation) and the official said no, these are the rules. Mus be tested inside. If the NFL really wants these balls to stay within that range, then test it outside duh.

If the Headsmart Labs test is legit, then what if it's 10F outside? 75F to 10F. No deflation? It's been -13F at Lambeau.

 

Then both sets of balls would be deflated. Again, you can't claim the weather did it, when the other team had no problem with the weather making the balls illegal.

 

No i'm talking in general, specifically about your point about the NFL wanting the balls to stay within regs throughout the game. If they are serious about that, then test them right before the game, outside.

 

No Skirting the rules in this way is the same as cheating. If you knowingly stored the balls at a higher temp to help the balls to shrink below the 12.5psi, that is cheating. Not an interpretation, that's cheating. If you do anything in preparing your balls to fall below the limit in which the balls are supposed to be used you are cheating. I hate people trying to make excuses for cheating. If the atmospheric pressure and temp helped this happen, Tyson De Grasse has said the balls would have needed 125C to make them shrink that far. That means you stored or heated your balls looking for that effect. That's cheating. Also if the balls fell by 2psi from 12.5psi that's 16%. IF everything was on the up and up in the prep and storage of the Pats balls and the conditions caused the shrinking then all balls would shrink the same amount, like most science, it effects all equal. The Colts balls even if filed to 13.5psi, they should have fallen by 16% to 11.34psi or even more than 2 psi the Pats balls fell. Which is below the accepted level by a full psi. If people can't understand that they aren't listening. Rubbing the balls by hand would not pull temp up to shrink the balls afterwards. That is a joke as well. 90 secs with a needle and I could drop 12 balls down a psi. They cheated in one way or another. I hope the NFL can prove it and puts the smack down. Ruining the integrity of the league pisses me off.

 

Why not test them every quarter?

Regardless, none of that has any real bearing on the issue at hand and that's determining the Pats intent.

 

Again, without knowing what the numbers of the Colts' balls were, this statement is completely irrelevant. If the Colts' balls were at 13.5psi, and went to 12.7psi, that would be deflation due to the weather. I'm not arguing about whether or not they stayed in the range specified by the league. The problem with the rule is that it doesn't seem to allow for adjusting of the balls during the game, or account for changes in pressure to due outside factors.

There is a huge, HUGE difference between submitting balls at 12.5, knowing that they will deflate in cold weather, and someone sticking a needle in and deflating them. One is meeting the rule, as it is written. One is physically altering the ball outside of the rules. The NFL needs to change their rule to account for potential changes in PSI due to weather.

 

sigh.

Really?

sigh

There is not a huge difference. Both scenarios are cheating. The only difference is that one can be played better to a public that wants to forgive and just watch the game. But both are cheating and both are cheating for the same result. You're arguing that there's a difference between a **** pie made from your own crap or someone else's.

Again, the crime happened. All you can do now is prove intent. There is no way possible to prove they did NOT intend for the balls to be low. This isn't an American courtroom so there's no innocent until proven guilty. The only evidence that exists is the evidence that speaks to the Pats character as a franchise and their benefit from the new rules in regards to fumbles. That evidence is damning.

The only thing you have is the possibility that the Colts balls lost some air, maybe and that DOES NOT PROVE INTENT BY THE EFFING PATS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just as I thought, no one is allowed to inflate the balls during the game except the ref:


Former NFL official Jim Daopoulos said that numerous factors could cause a football to deflate during a game:

The NFL's game operations manual states:

 

SIAP: But a couple articles on the Patriots incredible, scratch that, inconceivable fumble statistics.

-Patriots players just don't fumble-

-Patriot players fumble more when playing for other teams-

 

FinD. I think I can hear your brain having an aneurysm

 

So, now, with this information in our minds, is it possible for people to actually admit that it is not cheating if your balls deflate, due to natural processes, to below the limit?

So, very simply, if we were to know the measurements of the Colts balls, we could attempt to determine the following:

Did the Colts balls show variance in psi?
- If they did, how much, and how does it compare to the Patriots
- If not, how were the balls stored? Heated and covered?

IT MATTERS.

 

It's like a Florida thunderstorm. Happens everyday around 430.

 

i feel for you. Nobody wants to believe their team cheats. If they did cheat they owe thier fans the biggest appology of all.


As far as the temperature change being the cause i can tell you for a fact that its highly unlikely that was the cause. I am a professional in the field of refrigeration and my job deals specifically with the corelation between temperature and pressure for whats it worth.

 

Thanks man, it is what it is, I have no control over it.

So serious question then, I'd like your take on it. Why do tires get slacked when it's cold?

 

Is there any reocord of this happening before that game?

 

Usually it's the lower atmospheric pressures, coupled with the ton or more of steel sitting on them.

Or someone emptying them as you sleep.

 

"Parking lot attendent"

 

Florida Man Strangles 20 Neighborhood Cats After Suffering Aneurysm During Thunderstorm.

 

Air Nikes found deflated near by

 

[video]http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/2015/01/22/deflategate-patriots-football-pressure-inflated/22174475/[/video]

Please explain this video, then.

 

...

 

tires lose pressure because it gets cold. Its a real phenomina. Pressure and tempature have a direct correlation. They put air break in walk in box because the pressure inside drops and makes it difficult to open the door. The science part is correct.

the problem is it takes a longer amount of time than just a few hours for the effect to take place and it would take more than a 30 degree temperature differental. Thats what imo makes it implausible. I could buy into a few 10ths of psi as a drop but not as much as they are reporting.

 

Why would a person take 24 footballs into the john with them? Why not piss before getting the footballs? If he had one of those small, handheld inflators with a gage on it it's very possible to take a few psi out of 11 footballs. Especially if he's been doing it for YEARS!

 

To add to my post above think of the ball as being similiar to a thermos it has a rubber bladder and a leather coat the heat exchange will be very slow it would take all night for the air inside to equalize with the air outside

 

If anyone has mentioned this I apologize.

Back in November the Colts complained that the Patriots were using under inflated footballs. Right?

That game was played indoors at Lucas field.

 

because he can't leave them on their own for one, and the start of the game was delayed because of the NFC game. thats what i read as plausible anyway.

I also read that in the playoffs, these are league employees, but I don't know about that.

 

So, then the Colts balls would have deflated at the same rate!















































*waits patiently for damnarino's head to explode.