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Worst play call in NFL history?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I understand it's bang bang but seeing Butler already closing, the ball is just 6 inches the other way and it's maybe not intercepted. I understand you feel differently but the ball placement definitely contributed to the int. Looking at it again and again, it's part on Wilson, bigger part on Lockette, and huge part on Butler who maade an amazing read.

    I don't see how a QB is ever excused from judging how fast a defender is moving in. He's not a robot, he's a human being. Look at Tom Brady earlier in the game who was throwing to a WR who fell AFTER Tom started his throwing motion, and Tom still ended up being able to alter the motion to throw it in the ground.

    The freeze frame earlier you posted showed the spacing, but also a Butler already two steps into his break. At the same time, maybe Lockette didn't need to be stronger (though that would help) but to be faster. If he was half a step faster he'd box Butler completely out and it'd be PI (if they called it).

    Lockette looks to not be giving full speed effort on the replays. He's kind of waiting for the ball it seems. One of those things we'll never know.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Supposedly the coaches tipped it off to Butler what to expect. Lord only knows how they knew to expect it.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I doubt very much any coach is going to blame him for that. And indeed they didn't, Bevell pointed directly to the wide receiver's unwillingness to fight for spacing. And other teammates have said directly that Lockette's got to cross the defender's face. I think you're shooting from the hip, hunting for ways to spread blame. Such a pivotal play, important play in such an important game, there's this desire to dissect every inch of it and find all these factors that contributed to this great piece of work.

    But I'm pretty sure actual coaches look at the play and make a relatively simple diagnosis.
     
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  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I edited my post above to bring the blame back to Lockette. Watching the replays it seems he was waffling to the route waiting for the ball. He's like in slow mo compared to Butler. Half a step faster and Butler is boxed out completely from the ball.

    This angle shows it well. Notice how Butler alters his route because Lockette is moving in slower than he expected about halfway through.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Well part of what is going on there is Jermaine Kearse isn't really doing his job as far as shielding the slant and forming the pick. Even if Malcolm Butler had a jump on the play a split second before Wilson throws it, that shouldn't have mattered because he should have been running directly into Kearse and/or Browner.
     
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wilson tipped him off by looking over (but unless he has great peripheral vision he has to look over), and they practiced that exact play and Butler got burned. Belichick is a genius ;)

    Garrapolo burned Butler on the exact play to Josh Boyce. What are the odds.
     
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  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's Browner right? Not easy to win that fight even with a Kearse. I thought Kearse did an okay job considering Browner is 6'4" 220, Kearse is 6'1" 210. That's a fairly even fight. I bet they wished they had Arrington or Ryan in the game still.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Wilson did not tip the play off. I don't know where you're getting that.
     
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  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I got it from Butler. Seems like you're doing anything to shield Wilson from blame. ;)
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You're thinking about this the wrong way. It's illegal for Kearse to just straight up BLOCK Browner on a pass play. So if you're considering whether Kearse did his job or not, you shouldn't be evaluating it on that basis...whether he won the contest of strength with a man much bigger than him or not.

    His job is to get in the way, to run his route and get in the way. He didn't do that right. If he'd crossed Butler's pass the game is a Seahawks win.
     
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  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not so. I'm just correctly diagnosing the play. Butler also attributed his play to the fact that he had a vision of himself making that play before he made it. Does that mean God played a direct part in this?

    Butler can say what he wants but if he thinks that a quarterback looking left and/or right before the snap is a tip-off and that causes him to be aggressive in his coverage, well it's no wonder nobody knew who Malcolm Butler was until now. And they'll likely remember his name about as long as people remembered the names of Larry Brown, Dexter Jackson, Malcolm Smith, etc.
     
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  12. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-.../_/id/4777713/malcolm-butler-an-unlikely-hero

    It wasn't the only thing that tipped him off. He also noted 3 WRs when normally there is 2 on the goal line. Then when Wilson looked over he knew it was coming his way. What helped was he got burned on the play in practice like I mentioned earlier, and Belichick got in his face and told him this is going to happen in the game against Seattle so he better be ready.

    So there was a lot going on in that play. The Patriots really are well coached.

    So despite your best efforts to shield Wilson (getting kind of weird actually), yeah the look over tipped him off. Already suspicious with 3 wide, the look over topped it off.

    This is the best view of the play I've seen. The ball is quite ahead of Lockette. Again, Wilson probably expects Lockette to come in hotter and Lockette kind of loafs in there. I see what you say about shying away from contact because it seems he lets up every so slightly.

    [video]http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--WiAWIyPj--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/n6d2zx9kxkyuoktyogku.mp4[/video]
     
  13. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    The only fault Wilson had was leading Lockette instead of throwing back shoulder. I doubt he could see Butler breaking from behind Browner, Kearse and Lockette. If he had thrown back shoulder, than that would have been PI.
     
  14. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah you don't waste plays in the Super Bowl with 26 seconds left lol. How about a fade to one of your big buys in the back of the end zone.
     
  15. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not back shoulder, as those are harder to catch. Just about a foot off from where the ball was. And if you check my video above, he had the lane to do it too. I wouldn't be so certain it was all Lockette's fault. It's just a bang bang play and "NOBODY' is at fault just a great play, is also a possibility. We don't know if Lockette expected it a little closer, or if Wilson expected him to be faster. Also, it's hard to come in strong on someone that's coming from behind at an angle and you're trying to catch the ball so you need to square up for it, especially if it's ahead of you.

    Look at the replay, Lockette has no idea where Butler is, since he's looking at Wilson for the ball the whole time.
     
  16. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    Harder to catch but even harder to intercept. Especially for a wasted play.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes and no, as far as being harder to intercept. Malcolm Butler would not have been able to intercept a back shoulder ball placement the way he ended up intercepting the play. However, most coaches teach that if you throw back shoulder on a bang-bang play like a quick slant where the ball thrower is literally only 9 yards away from the ball catcher and so the football is right on him before he knows it, that's an excellent way to get the football popped up into the air and picked off.

    Wilson threw it where he should've thrown it. Lockette has to make a better effort. And it'd help if the play wasn't so predictable that the coaches and players on NE knew it was coming. And of course it would've helped if they ran Marshawn directly down NE's throat like everyone and their cousin thought they should've.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's actually getting kind of bizarre and freaky how you'll go to any lengths to pin anything, anything at all on Russell Wilson. No matter how thin.
     
  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No Wilson didn't. Butler just happened to guess correctly. Wilson could've glanced over to bait New England's defense or set Butler up for all he or anyone else knew at the time. Had Seattle run a fake pick route, that's a TD and it's game over.
     
  20. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    TIL that Todd calls his ***** "brady's needle"
     
  21. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Why run a slant route right into the heart of the D. Just Fn dumb.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For me back shoulder means WR contorts to try and catch it and like CK says, pop up. How many balls are popped by a WR reaching back for it. They normally only get one hand on it and that's what happens
     
  23. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    Maybe I'm just spoiled by gronk and edelman.. lol
     
  24. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    Off topic question, in your opinion did Brady deserve MVP of game, or did Edelmen? I personally thought Edelmen did, but i could see an argument either way.
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So the guy who made the play says right away Wilson's eyes tipped him off, but I'm making stuff up. Okay.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...to-victory-but-butler-stole-the-show.html?_r=

    But don't listen to me guys, I have an agenda. And don't listen to Butler, because who made him the authority on what happened on that play. Not like he was there or anything right?

    Looking at the replay I'm taking some blame away from Lockette. He has no idea where Butler is because his routes break him in the slant with eyes towards Wilson. Watch the replay. Could he have Dez'd it and muscled it sure.
     
  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Go watch some Wallace highlights lol.
     
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  27. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    Duh man. All brady. He was forced to play with fully inflated balls this game.. lol.

    In all seriousness, it could have been either. Edelman was over 100 yards with like a 12 yard avg, but I think what put brady ahead was the two drives in the 4th to take the lead. If edelman had caught one more of the other 3 touchdowns, then edelman. If Brady doesnt throw the two picks then brady all day regardless.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So Malcolm Butler has explained that he knew what was going to happen because of:

    1. The vision that popped in his head of making the play that he ultimately made.
    2. The three receivers personnel package.
    3. "I don't know how I knew. I just knew."
    4. The wide receiver stack to his side suggesting a pick play.
    5. Russell Wilson glanced to his side before the play (and very well may have glanced to the other side as well).

    Of all these crazy, disjointed things that Malcolm Butler has said about his interception, you pick out the one that suggests that Russell Wilson may have made a mistake, and you focus on that one.

    And you, given your history of doggedly arguing against people who propose that Russell Wilson is elite, expect us to believe your bringing this up has nothing to do with agenda?

    [​IMG]
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i thought bradys strategy the whole game was to be hyper accurate in term of leading his receivers in the short game, it was pretty impressive where he located the ball
     
  30. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He didn't glance over. He tried to keep his head straight while only moving his eyes. I thought it was the head turn, but it was Wilson trying not to look over, while looking over. Again, you have a guy on the field who made the play actually saying Wilson kept his head straight while his eyes kept darting over, but let's just dismiss the reasons given by the guy who made the absolute incredible play. Here is a more full quote (I think from the source, or post-presser) http://www.mainenewssimply.com/cont...seahawks-were-passing-super-bowl-winning-pick

    And you are completely misrepresenting what Butler said about the vision. He didn't say he had a vision he made THAT play. That's a complete misrepresentation on your part. I'm the one with the agenda, right?

    He had a vision he was going to make A big play. Not a vision he was going to make THAT specific play as you tried to say to try and make him out to be some wacko. He was serving up Popeye's chicken the year before. He had a vision he was going to come up to bat in the bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, two outs and down by 3, and hit it out of the park. Yeah a lot of kids have that same vision every night. Shoot I still go to sleep pretending I throw 56 TDs in a season (tough considering I'm 5'6").

    But you're trying to characterize it as if he said Divine Intervention gave him the Seahawks exact playcall beforehand.

    So, you're dismissing what the the guy said he saw, and then misrepresenting something else he said. That's pretty incredible really. At a certain point you need to just accept the weight of the evidence is against you. It's not a big deal. Wilson isn't playing for us anytime soon ... He tipped it off, big deal. He has to. He has to ensure the formation is right, no? Just a great read by Butler.

    ETA: I have no agenda against Wilson and if you read my posts, I'm a huge fan. I just like to poke and prod to drill down debates beyond the simplistic (he sucks he only reads half the field) etc. I probably have him a notch below Brady/Rodgers/Manning if I need a QB for one season next year. I'd have him in the Romo/Brees/Big Ben category right now. For just one year. Starting a new team? It'd be Rodgers, Luck/Wilson probably. I kind of hope Seattle loses their defense and Lynch to see what he can do and unleash his full potential, whatever that may be.

    Okay back on topic, yeah the eyes did it.
     
  32. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    It's been reported that in practice they ran that play against him and kept beating him. He plays for the best coach of our era, it's no surprise he was ready for it.
     
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  33. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They ran it once. It was Garrappolo and Josh Boyce and he got burned. His own words, he was "begging back" and got beat. Belichick told him to be ready for this play because Seattle will use this against him and they did. At least, that's what he's saying now ;)
     
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  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I thought I read that they ran it more like three times, with him getting burnt on it twice.
     
  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe.
     
  36. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    should I still have an erection?
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stop taking those blue pills you affectionately call little Tommies
     
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  38. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    i dont take those. my junk can only get so erect.
     
  39. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    [​IMG]
     
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  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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